Saddam To Hang

You wonder why it's 'fashionable' - even after so many decades - to 'bash Franco', prince regent? Could it possibly be that, regardless of his political or religious persuasion, the length of his hair or the colour of his eyes, he was simply a tyrant? There are so many to choose from throughout the 20th and into the 21st centuries, that it's pretty obvious that a tyrant is a tyrant, whether he is right, left, fundamentalist Christian or Muslim, communist and unbeliever, animist or pantheist.

I can't even think of all of them, but we can start with King Bloody Leopold of Belgium paying a bounty on the hacked-off hands of overworked rubber tappers in the Belgian Congo (to encourage the others); Bokassa, Amin, the Shah of Iran (let's not forget his appalling secret police and the special services of dogs, reserved for captured female dissidents), the bleeding obvious like Hitler, Stalin, Ceauscescu, Milosevic, Pol Pot, Pinochet... I imagine there are several I've omitted, so feel free to fill in the missing despots' names. Do you see a particular theme of being bashed by the Left? No, because obviously some were Left and some were three miles Right of Genghis Khan.

You make a pointless observation that it's fashionable for the Left to criticise Franco. You'd hardly imagine that the Falange would, do you? :confused:
 
It is quite clear it is in fashion to detract Franco

Franco did very bad things but what Largo Caballero and Negrin had prepared for us would have been much worse for sure.


Franco did not ruin Spain and was the responsible of a transition to Democracy.

He gave the working clsas most of the rights we have nowdays, he provided the country the medical system we had nowdays.


And many other things.



About the atrocities
were done in both sides, and these things happen in civil wars


Yesterday was the 70th aniversary of the Paracuellos affair, 5500 people killed by the comunist.Many of us had familiars there.
 
And Hitler built marvellous motorways !

Franco was a fascist monster - he went on committing atrocities long after the Civil War , murdering political opponents - a war by the way that removed a democratically elected government ( which he won with the help of Nazi planes and Mussolini's help and replaced it with a fascist dictatorship .

Franco allowed Hitler to use Spain's naval bases during World War II, then declared Spain neutral in 1943 when it looked like the Allies would win.

He and Saddam had a lot in common. It is "fashionable" to despise him because he was a fascist dictator and if that ever goes out of fashion the world will be a very scary place.

At last his statues are all coming down - like Saddams .
 
Well I asked the question at 2 o'c'clock. If there are still any fascists out there? whose history has proven might be a wee bit, Hitler sympathetic, then please speak up, I look forward to hearing from you.?
 
Perhaps Suny will be so kind as to remind us which party won the democratic election of Feb 1936? ooops democracy doesn't really count though when people might be involved :rolleyes: Far better to call on your soul mates and murder them hey?

I'll be particularly interested to hear your explanation of the rise of the Falange? and if you tell me it occured prior to 36 and didn't gain strength during? then I'm frankly appalled. Spain had many right wing groups in between.

Were they not anti democratic? yes or no, you can't have it both ways.

Your justification of the CEDA would also be interesting barirng in mind the number of people whose deaths were comissioned in their name, and the Carlists for that matter, what were they responsible for?

My question remains the same........

But the I know the answer <_<
 
The 36 elections were a farce.

The key here is what the left did in 34 when la CEDA won elections, it is also very interesting the conversations and negotiations of what Largo Caballero and Negrin had a agreed with Stalin to implant in Spain.


I dont say I liked what Franco did, I just said he was the least negative option.
At least he allowed what he have nowdays and didnt ruined the country.
 
Well, that's very encouraging to know, suny.

Iraq was a thriving, economically sound and modern country under Saddam Hussein, so that made the gassing of Kurds, the torture and murder of thousands of dissenters, the crushing of Shi'ites and their forcible use as front-line troops in the Gulf War totally acceptable. Just as long as the trains are on time, and the roads are well-maintained, any kind of brute can be acceptable.
 
Originally posted by an capall@Nov 10 2006, 10:12 AM
Franco was to democracy as f*cking is to virginity.
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An

Franco was a dictator but if he would not have want it, we would not have a supposed democracy nowdays in Spain,
it is much easier for you ,as you live in a serious country but a country like Spain is much more complicated.
 
Originally posted by sunybay@Nov 10 2006, 10:50 AM
Franco was a dictator but if he would not have want it, we would not have a supposed democracy nowdays in Spain
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What would you think of the idea that this was a PR stunt very similar in nature to that which Saddam is attempting to pull off, in a "look at me, I'm a reformed character" kind of way?
 
as you live in a serious country
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Suny - you are beginning to sound like your arch enemy, Aidan O'Brien.

Anyway - thanks for the compliment, but I think I live in a banana republic.
 
Originally posted by sunybay@Nov 9 2006, 10:35 PM
Franco did not ruin Spain and was the responsible of a transition to Democracy.
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Well I have to say Suny, your notion that Franco was some kind of father of democracy frankly beggars belief, I'm seriuosly struggling to reconcile your conclusion here. Franco sent the name of democracy in Spain backwards surely?. Spain only really started to make advances as an industrial economy once it benefited from the then EEC. With Franco on the tiller that could never have happenend.

The 1936 elections weren't ideal but they were no less a farce than what happened in Florida in 2000, and I'm sure you'd be appalled if a result that suits your own believe wasn't allowed to stand. The problem is you will invoke over throwing a democratic result when it suits, and sustaining one likewise. Only Seville of the principal cities of Spain came out for Franco in July, others like Oviedo and Granada were held against the wishes of the population, as indeed was Zaragossa. Madrid, Barcelona, Valencia and Bilboa werer staunchly Republican. It was only really rural Galicia, Leon, Old Castile and western Andulcia that supported Franco.

For the record, in terms of body count more Republicans were executed by Nationalists than vica versa, and the percentage of the population killed in the 3 years leading up to February 1939 (and beyond of course as Ardross points out) eclipses Saddam.

I think Simmo, your point about the carving up of the Balkans ought to acknowledge the role of the British rather than portraying it as a cosy communist plot. The deal to support Tito in Yougoslavia came in return for Greece, a deal that Churchill was instrumental in brokering.

And on a point of order Kriz. I would be very interested to learn, were it emerge later, if Saddam was bankrolled by Martians :D
 
Originally posted by Warbler@Nov 10 2006, 01:17 PM
Only Seville of the principal cities of Spain came out for Franco in July, others like Oviedo and Granada were held against the wishes of the population, as indeed was Zaragossa. Madrid, Barcelona, Valencia and Bilboa werer staunchly Republican. It was only really rural Galicia, Leon, Old Castile and western Andulcia that supported Franco.
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Sounds a bit like the fox-hunting debate to me. Hmmm...... :brows:


And I think you'll find it to have been someone else making the comment about carving up the Balkans. I only know what I learned from Alistair MacLean books.
 
Originally posted by Bar the Bull@Nov 10 2006, 01:34 PM
Franco's Spain made great economic progress in the 60's.

He was still a cruel fascist, though.
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Only after the US propped him up after the Pact of Madrid BTB - another example of how they did not care who they did business with so long as they were not left wing
 
Originally posted by simmo@Nov 10 2006, 01:23 PM

And I think you'll find it to have been someone else making the comment about carving up the Balkans. I only know what I learned from Alistair MacLean books.
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Indeed it was Simmo. My apologies, the comment had slipped down the "last 10 running order" and I tried taking it from memory. In this case I attributed it incorrectly to yourself, though should of course have done you the decency of re-checking after having pressed the 'submit' button. I meant to, but for some reason got distracted, and then forgot
 
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