Sea the Stars / Breeding

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Kauto

At the Start
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Forgive me if this should be in another thread or there is a thread similar etc...all new to this so please try to bear with me.
What with Sea the Stars looking like a potential superstar from 1m-1m 4f and with his such exquiste breeding I have already begun thinking of the potential implications of his stallion career.
I currently have horses with Peter Chapple Hyam and have a share in Zaynar but my future interest really lies in building a breeding operation for racing and commercial aspects.
Having seen this horse and how well his half brother Gallileo has done at stud does anyone have any opinions on whether it may be worth trying to put in place now the broodmares for when this horse becomes a stallion and try and build the enterprise from this one horse. I know this may seem a little all your eggs in one basket but I cant help but think this horse may present an opportunity to build a special bloodline.
Thanks for your time.
 
One would have to bear in mind, will he make it to stud ( obviously not wishing him any harm), where will he stand, the quality of mares one would have; if they limited his book would your mares 'get in';how much will he stand for?; will he be fertile? I wouldn't think he will run at 4 if he finishes the rest of the year unbeaten, so do you have mares now who you think would be suitable for him? Or the funds to buy in the sales if that's the route you are planning? Is Cape Cross the attraction? Or the dam's breeding? Cape Cross may be cheaper although I would think his price will rise. Very difficult to plan around one horse, but I wish you the best of luck.
 
I would have thought you pick a stallion that suits your mare and will give the highest commercial return if you intend to sell. I don't think blindly bringing a mare to any particular stallion is the best idea. But other people involved in breeding might have a better idea.
 
sorry i meant that the mares would be brought specifically for mating with sea the stars so the pedigrees would be as advantageous as possible
 
It's a really poor strategy to pile into one untried stallion, however talented and well-related he is.

Around 85% of stallions disappoint and it's still big odds against even such a promising prospect as Sea The Stars making the grade.

For every Diesis, there are plenty more Black Jesters.

At the level of fee (or lower!) that STS is likely to command, there will be a good assortment of successful proven stallions available to you, and you'll have a a much better idea of what mares might suit them as the aptitudes and conformation of such sires' offspring are much better guides than the qualities of of the stallions themselves.
 
CAPE CROSS as a sire of sires is unproven but you do have to say that URBAN SEA has produced the goods several times over and I for one would always go for a sire with an outstanding dam line. CC isn't a one hit wonder, either, with OUIJA BOARD to prove that so bearing in mind the current economic climate I would go for it.

If you are buying quality mares which are proven black type performers themselves and which have produced same, it wouldn't be the worst move in the world but it isn't going to be a cheap exercise, even in this economic climate.
 
I think the key thing is he's unproven, he's going to be pricey so why not pick a stallion that's proven.
 
Sheikh said:
I think the key thing is he's unproven, he's going to be pricey so why not pick a stallion that's proven.
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Because it's all about the gamble, Sheokh, isn't it? If he turns out to the real deal, like his half-brother, then you're ahead of the game as the stud fee will go upwards yet again and could be unaffordable - assuming, of course, that we're talking about breeding to race. Either way, if the mares are good quality proven mares, if breeding to sell as foals or yearlings then using him when he retires to stud would also be sound commercial sense as I would guess that they would be highly saleable. GALLILEO's were good-lookers and this horse is too, so if you start with decent mares, then you are unlikely to get horror stories.

However, as with the beardo thread on breeding, I do wonder whether this is really a genuine topic...
 
As did the gamble of selling Teofilo to Darley - just look at the breeding, prices etc. of the horses he's been buying since that sale.
 
Nope this is a serious thread. I think the point made about trying to get ahead of the game is a big reason I would be very keen on Sea the Stars. The fact his half brother has produced some beautiful looking horses and he himself is probably the most physically impressive horse I have seen in my life not to mention his temperament. Also his bloodline on the dam side is wonderful and if you were to have any fillies the potential as a broadmare is huge. Jim Bolger was very wise and saw the potential of Gallileo and has benefited greatly.
 
The horse is going to cost crazy money at stud in his first year and thats regardless of what he does for the rest of the season. Loads of other opportunities. If you are keen on breeding to him, I'd wait until his second or third season covering when their price often drops on the eve of his first runners.
 
davidjohnson said:
And for every Galileo, there's a Lil's Boy!
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So where's the relevance in this case? Lil's Boy isn't out of URBAN SEA is he!??! Never won above Listed level so where's the direct comparison?

We are looking at a potential stallion who is a top class Gr 1 winning race horse out of one of bluest hen mares ever. His half brother is already an outstanding sire and his siblings have been outstanding racehorses too.

If there was ever a potential stallion who should make the grade, this one surely fits the bill but nothing is ever guaranteed and you can only influence the odds in your favour by buying decent racemares or proven broodmares to lessen the risk to send to him.

The semantics of the thread may be serious, Kauto but quite why anyone would come on here to ask advice about bloodstock at the level you are talking about is beyond me and pretty incredible.
 
Songsheet, why anyone would start a multi-million pound breeding operation without getting consensus approval from this forum is beyond me.
 
:lol:

Get a good bloodstock advisor for Christ's sake! Deals to be won out there and without one you'll never get them! It's a scary place if you do not know the right people. As already mentioned you need to look closely at your mare's breeding and size etc. Best to pay someone who knows the ropes, been there and has results to prove it. And can advise you what to do with offspring when foaled.

PS NEVER put all your eggs in one basket!
 
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Did anybody read the Morris piece today about stamina? Apologies if it is covered already.

He reckons that if you take a filly and a colt with identical breeding, the filly will stay further. He gives the examples of a Pivotal and a Diesis winning the Oaks but not the Derby. My immediate reaction is that it is horseshit. How many mares have won the Ascot Gold Cup? Indian Queen and who else?
 
Surely that would have more to do with 1) ability rather than stamina [ie not many fillies are capable of winning against the colts/geldings in open group 1s] and 2) that a lot of mares that would be talented enough to compete at such a level would have been retired to stud reasonably early rather than go on for a long time? It is often older horses who dominate at such distances.

But I agree with you, the theory sounds like crap to me.
 
Your second point is valid. But the weight allowance should make up for the first point.

At Group 1 level, off the top of my head, I reckon that female horses have a better record in sprints and mile races than intermediate and staying races.
 
Maybe the allowance should make up for it but in reality how many fillies have the ability to win open group ones against the colts? Not many manage it, they often stick to their own sex.
 
I agree with all that. Jaysus.

I am not talking about how good they are.

But I am interested in Morris and his theory. Of the fillies/mares who were good enough to win at the top level, how many of them were over 1m4f and over?
 
But that's the point - it is all to do with whether they have the ability to compete at the top level at 1m4f and over. You will find plenty of fillies and mares who run at 1m4f and over so it's not the stamina that is at question.
 
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