Sinn Fein

icebreaker

icebreaker

At the Start
Joined
Jun 12, 2005
Messages
2,957
So, with most votes counted, it would seem that the political wing of the IRA has scored a spectacular victory in the Euro and local elections in Ireland. So much so that the organisation is now a major political force on the island, sharing a similar percentage of support as the two major parties (F.G. and F.F.). Hundreds of thousands of the electorate have apparently switched to vote for them.
Where does this lead us to?

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icebreaker said:
So, with most votes counted, it would seem that the political wing of the IRA has scored a spectacular victory in the Euro and local elections in Ireland. So much so that the organisation is now a major political force on the island, sharing a similar percentage of support as the two major parties (F.G. and F.F.). Hundreds of thousands of the electorate have apparently switched to vote for them.
Where does this lead us to?

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It means absolutely diddly squat in my opinion. We're still overspending, were inefficient at running all our public services, nobody will be held accountable for any of the mistakes of the past in any meaningful way, and the media will continue to report whatever they feel is best for them, and people will continue to lap it up. It just means someone else has more seats in the offices that are overseeing it all.

If Sinn Fein get into power with someone else next time they will be found out in a major way and be destroyed.

Im fairly sure things are going to get worse before they get better for the normal joe soap in Ireland.
 
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Good analysis Del Boy -local SF candidate deservedly topped poll due to his absolutely Trojan work in relation to anti social behavior.
 
I think it is a real sea-change in the body politic of the country (probably not for the better).
We have just witnessed 20% of the electorate voting for what just a few years ago was an organisation banned from radio and television, and which was the political front for one of the world's most notorious guerilla armies (terrorists?)..
Aye, even the middle classes, it seems, have voted for them in this election ............ notwithstanding the recent furore about the Jean McConville murder and the arrest of Adams. All of a sudden the IRA/Sinn Fein have become legit and acceptable.

What I ponder, tho', is the current landslide towards them a temporary thing -- or is it the first step in an unstoppable rise. I fear it is the latter.

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It shouldn't be interpreted as a vote on the troubles but a vote for a protest party who have worked hard.
 
LUKE said:
Good analysis Del Boy -local SF candidate deservedly topped poll due to his absolutely Trojan work in relation to anti social behavior.
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This is funny. (Not your post, Luke, but the illusion that Sinn Fein puts about that they are active against "anti-social behaviour").
Them, and their IRA brethren who were/are highly proficient in armed bank robbery, shooting Gardai, drug-dealing, extortion, and brutal criminality, to talk about anti-social behaviour. :rolleyes:
 
LUKE said:
It shouldn't be interpreted as a vote on the troubles but a vote for a protest party who have worked hard.
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Protest vote or not, tho', it indicates that a very large segment of the electorate are prepared to overlook or dismiss the organisation's bloody past history.
 
The drug dealing simply isn't true.Locally the guy who topped the poll showed tremendous personal courage in facing down anti social behavior and exposing a local drug dealing family who were under the radar but potentially players on a national level.
 
Harry -read my posts on this thread and the McConville and point me to anything I've said that is controversial.Basically what I've said is that the past is the past and everyone should move on -maybe after a truth and reconciliation process.
 
icebreaker said:
I think it is a real sea-change in the body politic of the country (probably not for the better).
We have just witnessed 20% of the electorate voting for what just a few years ago was an organisation banned from radio and television, and which was the political front for one of the world's most notorious guerilla armies (terrorists?)..
Aye, even the middle classes, it seems, have voted for them in this election ............ notwithstanding the recent furore about the Jean McConville murder and the arrest of Adams. All of a sudden the IRA/Sinn Fein have become legit and acceptable.

What I ponder, tho', is the current landslide towards them a temporary thing -- or is it the first step in an unstoppable rise. I fear it is the latter.

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Fianna Fail were formed from the bones of the IRB in 1926, had an overall majority in the Dail by 1932 and were executing former colleagues in the name of the State shortly afterwards. It is a well worn path, but the worst thing that could happen SF as a party is to be part of the Govt. If the PDs, Greens Lib/Dems and now Labour doesn't show how being the smaller part of a coalition is bad for you then nothing will.
 
You think Sinn Fein would make the same mistake as the Greens or Labour and prop up somebody else in a coalition? You do?

Past experience shows that these guys are shrewd strategists; they have always espoused the long-term overview rather than some fleeting gain. They are the oldest political entity in existence since the foundation of the State, and have waited this long so far for their hour. Their "Our Day Will Come" mantra has been their creed. I honestly can't see them throwing it all away by supporting some rightist party like F.F. or F.G. in the Dail.

And who's to say they will be in a minority by the time of the next general election? The recent Euro's have shown them on a par with both F.F. and F.G. It is not beyond the bounds of possibility that it will be them who are the majority partner in the next government if their meteoric rise continues, and that Gerry Adams will be taking the salute on the GPO steps at the centenary celebrations in 2016. :blink:

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They are too far left to get an overall majority. Ireland will again play safe in a general election and vote in a FG led coalition.
 
icebreaker said:
You think Sinn Fein would make the same mistake as the Greens or Labour and prop up somebody else in a coalition? You do?

Past experience shows that these guys are shrewd strategists; they have always espoused the long-term overview rather than some fleeting gain. They are the oldest political entity in existence since the foundation of the State, and have waited this long so far for their hour. Their "Our Day Will Come" mantra has been their creed. I honestly can't see them throwing it all away by supporting some rightist party like F.F. or F.G. in the Dail.

And who's to say they will be in a minority by the time of the next general election? The recent Euro's have shown them on a par with both F.F. and F.G. It is not beyond the bounds of possibility that it will be them who are the majority partner in the next government if their meteoric rise continues, and that Gerry Adams will be taking the salute on the GPO steps at the centenary celebrations in 2016. :blink:
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But if you look at the Republican theology IceB they already have been in Govt from 1918-1923 when they were the largest party in what became the Free State. In fact, they way they see it the 2nd Dail was never dissolved legally and as such they remain the legitimate Govt of Ireland. As I recall the last surviving member of the 2nd Dail who stayed loyal to their brand of the cause (some ex TD from Sligo?) ceded control of the State to the IRA Army Council in the 1960s.

The problem they have is to balance their lust for power (previously sated with baseball bats and armalites) with the realities of the moment. It's easy to say you are playing the long game when you have no prospect of a Cabinet seat, especially with 2016 fast approaching. Their time could pass quickly when economic recovery takes hold.
 
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If the PDs, Greens Lib/Dems and now Labour doesn't show how being the smaller part of a coalition is bad for you then nothing will.
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True. But what were Labour supposed to do when the country was in the very worst economic crisis of our lifetime? Fianna Fail could not be in office, that was out of the question, so what other government could there have been other than FG/Lab to start getting us out of the hole?

Maybe the suggestion above that this will be recognised at the next general election is correct. When they took office the government was spending €70bn per year and taking in revenue of €49bn per year and heading fast over a cliff. Have people already forgotten?

Regarding Sinn Fein, some of us remember the time when sectarian acts like the attack on the Jewish museum here in Brussels last week were routine in Belfast. There is a ceiling on SF support because of it.
 
Grey said:
There is a ceiling on SF support because of it.
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However, the ceiling was supposed to have been reached in the 2011 general election according to the consensus of informed opinion and commentators back then. They assured us that Sinn Fein had peaked, and their doubling of their vote to 10% overall was a direct consequence of the dire economic situation.
Now in these Euro and local elections we have found that S.F. has yet again doubled their vote to over 20%. The commentators had it wrong first time. Calling "ceilings" each time around might be simply head-in-the-sand-ostrich stuff. Who knows what the eventual ceiling might be.

The one thing I'm certain of is that S.F. are not going to allow themselves to be the weak partner to any of the mainstream parties. They have so far waited 90 years for their hour, and have suffered hundreds of their "volunteers" killed and executed in the "Struggle". They are not going to ignore that history, and their grassroots simply would not stand for it.
Whatever we may think of them, they do have their "principles", and are not your typical politician who's in the game for the good pay and perks. I guess their party name Sinn Fein translated -- "Ourselves Alone" -- kinda sums up their attitude. :rolleyes:
 
There is also a principal called the will of the people. However now that the other parties know they are a kegimate threat they will fave some very dirty politics in the next election.

This is probably Sinn Fein's greatest contribution to Irish politics but it may just come back to haunt them

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uUhFdi7iRL0
 
They have so far waited 90 years for their hour
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This is myth.

They have finally abandoned their "struggle", recognising it to be futile, more than 90 years after Michael Collins and the pro treaty part of original Sinn Fein, more than 80 years after the main anti treaty forces. They are slow learners rather than clever long term thinkers.
 
Grey said:
This is myth.
They have finally abandoned their "struggle", recognising it to be futile, more than 90 years after Michael Collins and the pro treaty part of original Sinn Fein, more than 80 years after the main anti treaty forces.
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Yes, thanks, I'm aware of that.
They are now using the ballot box rather than the Armalite. That gameplan/blueprint was a thought-out strategic policy decision as well, and seems to reaping benefits.
 
QUOTE=SlimChance;572959]There is also a principal called the will of the people./QUOTE

That's a strange name for a Headmaster.
 
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