So did the cheerleaders do it for you?

Ascot has a major problem with the issue of alcohol. Drinks are allowed anywhere it seems, so people camp out on the terraces with an alcohol supply (sometimes cooler boxes full of bottles they've brought with them) and settle in for an afternoon of non-stop drinking. Since the Royal meeting stickers have appeared on the doors out of the stands out onto racecourse side saying no food or drink past here but not only are they not enforced nor adhered to, I don't think even the officials realise they are there now! They still have the students in backpacks wandering around the stands hawking Fosters as well. It means that Ascot has become a mecca for pissheads; there are usually 5 or 6 stag/hen parties clearly visible on each meeting and after only a couple of races the vast majority of the crowd is out of their heads and getting lairy. Violence is also common along with the paucity of security guards, mainly teenagers or slight women (even more amazing, only a handful of those 'security guards' are allowed to get involved with breaking up a fight, being not licensed to do so!) and I don't think it is long before a fairly major incident occurs there.
 
In theory, i'd have no problem with alcohol being brought anywhere on course. The problem is racing attracts an awful lot of louts who are as likely to spill their beer over you than not, and this makes a ban on alcohol in certain areas the right decision, albeit an unfortunate one.
 
Precisely - and it also means that it makes it far easier for people to get as drunk as they can since they can camp out in a group with a supply of alcohol, watching the racing, having a bet, rather than having to go to a bar, buy a drink, then move on if they want to have a bet or watch a race.
 
Walsworth his the nail on the head. Complete and utter embarrassing drivel. What about that Rishi fella? Good Lord. Truly pathetic. And that fat common as muck cockney tub of lard with John Parrot? Two imbeciles. It's beyond words how pathetic the whole thing is. This sort of thing just drives people away from racing. "Yes, but we got 28,000 people thru the doors blah blah blah". You'd get 28,000 people thru the doors of Ascot on a nice sunny Saturday afternoon if you had six 3 legged donkey races. Fck all to do with racing. People just want to and sxe the horsey worseys and have an ice-cream or get pis*sed. It's flat sh1te of the highest order. Should be canned, sorry, should have been canned years ago. It's an embarrassment.
 
It's annoying, but it's only one day of the year and so can put up with it - just. Now if Anthony Kemp had anything to do with it I really would be forced to violence.
 
I don't see why the behaviour of others should compromise the pleasures of others. I can happily enjoy a pint infront of the stands watching a race without hitting anyone or spilling it over anyone. This is why Newbury annoys me so much, you can't even drink an orange juice while watching a race.
 
Absolutely, but the likelihood is you are able to sit there and drink a pint like a normal person, but there are too many louts at racecourses these days.
 
In theory, i'd have no problem with alcohol being brought anywhere on course. The problem is racing attracts an awful lot of louts who are as likely to spill their beer over you than not, and this makes a ban on alcohol in certain areas the right decision, albeit an unfortunate one.

Salisbury must be strict then if they extended that policy to ice-cream:lol:
 
Simon - most of the things you've suggested are done to educate the non-racegoer can be found in any course's race card. Epsom's is particularly educative. You won't get bookmakers offering 5p off anything, but the Tote regularly includes free bet vouchers in the cards or via other means - often you can buy a raceday package which (as an example) includes entry, card, Tote voucher, and a drink.

I don't think there's any evidence to prove the argument put forward that by drawing in the 'non-racing' types via entertainments and booze, that they won't come back when there's just ordinary racing. They may well come back because the non-entertainment racing will be a bit cheaper (since the course doesn't have to cover the fee for Simply Red or Pussycat Dolls, etc.) and, if they continue to have a good time, they'll continue to turn up.

Brighton and Lingfield Park have employed security staff (bonded and badged) to inspect bags for alcohol and confiscate any found, so that the only booze on course is that bought there. However, I do agree that bar staff should be far more rigorous about serving drunks more booze. If they can see that someone's already well tanked, they should be supported in refusing to serve them more.

I don't think the mobile beer sellers represent any big problem - in one way they cut down on some of the snarls that happen when people have to queue for too long and miss seeing a race live. By being mobile in the crowd, all they do is cut out the need to go inside and queue, possibly getting overlooked, getting cross, and starting an argument. The drinker's going to drink, anyway, whether it's from a mobile or stationary facility, so what the heck.
 
The mobile sellers present a massive problem, Kri - they bring the drink to the punter so they don't have to move to find any. Moving to a bar, queuing to get served and better still having to stay within the bar vicinity to finish a drink all helps to keep people a little less drunk as it's not simply produced in front of their nose for them to drink non-stop.

I know what Simon means about information in the racecards and what he is talking about isn't in the racecards. We all know some of them produce a sorry attempt at a guide to racing terms but they're pretty woeful. I think you'll find Simon is very aware of what is printed in racecards!
 
The mobile beer sellers do not present any problem at all SL. They are a blessing. You don't have to queue up at the bar and you can drink your pint anywhere and get them in quickly too. You try gettin a round in after every race at Cheltenham and see how long it takes you! These mobile dummies are great they are. Robbin' bas*tards at £3.50 a pop but great. Brit racecards are a joke "Won 3 races in 5 years over various distances". This is the sort of utterly meaningless drivel they contain. Complete joke. They should be like the Irish cards. You have the form of the last 3 races for the horse contained in 3 lines. At least it's relevant. If you need more info consult your Irish Field or RP if you're really desperate.
 
The mobile sellers present a massive problem, Kri - they bring the drink to the punter so they don't have to move to find any. Moving to a bar, queuing to get served and better still having to stay within the bar vicinity to finish a drink all helps to keep people a little less drunk as it's not simply produced in front of their nose for them to drink non-stop.

Agree totally Shadow.
 
I know what Simon means about information in the racecards and what he is talking about isn't in the racecards. We all know some of them produce a sorry attempt at a guide to racing terms but they're pretty woeful. I think you'll find Simon is very aware of what is printed in racecards!

What I am talking about is for want of a better phrase 'a dummies guide to racing'. For those of us who's lives revolve around racing we don't realise that our world is alien to most people. They don't know what a 'jolly' is, the difference between a handicap and a 2yo maiden, and what the sign saying 'Good to Soft' means. If people who come racing for the first time feel excluded by all the unexplained terms they will feel totally alienated or badly misinformed. How many of us have seen/heard a gaggle of curious racegoers being led by a self-appointed expert keen to explain that 100/30 is better than 7/2?

Instead of a panel of form sages, who let's face it will be unknown to the vast majority of new racegoers, giving meaningless tips before racing, how about someone explaining racing to all those who are interested? All the basics, from what 'Good to Soft' and 'Jolly' means to a basic explanation of each type of race on the card. Do it so it's entertaining. Of course the regular race-goer may turn their nose up at the dumbing down of racing, but it wouldn't be aimed at them and they could be enjoying the extra space while the introduction to racing is going on. Surely if the idea really is to attract new blood to racing rather than just make money by using them as surplus tickets sales for a meeting not many people want to go to it would be the obvious thing to do.
 
How would I know what Simon Nott is or isn't aware of, O Great Oracle?? He's just joined and hasn't told us a thing about his background - although I've now received a helpful PM from another member telling me a little of that, and you clearly know him, from your remarks, so just bear with us who don't, okay? If you'd read through your race cards more carefully, you'd find that the very things Simon has mentioned are, in fact, dealt with by any number of courses - Epsom, Sandown, Lingfield and Brighton have a beginner's guide to racing terms. I don't think they're woeful, since they're there to explain things simply and BRIEFLY. Going into vast detail doesn't make them better.

I can see that someone explaining what you're after, Simon, would be of some use to the novice, but who would do it? They'd want to be paid around £250 at least, I'm sure, since no-one works for free at racecourses, and I can't see novices not getting what they want, say, from this:

Sandown Park: How to Read the Racecard and Trackfacts, Helpful Hints: the horse: encouraging signs to look for (in brief); the jockey: his record at SP, see trackfacts; form guide: "form is simply information about a horse's past performance (see How to Read A Racecard above); official BHA rating: three good paragraphs on explaining how this works.

Goodwood: "A Selling Race" - an entire page devoted to explaining this, opposite the page with the Selling Stakes. Plus, How to Read The Racecard in very clear detail.

Cheltenham: How To Read the Racecard; How to bet with a racecourse bookmaker.

Not sure how much more information a novice needs to start off the day, to be honest. I think what you say, Simon, would be nicely put over by someone with a good knowledge of horses and racing jargon from the parade ring, in conjunction with the card.

I don't know why you say form sages give 'meaningless tips' before racing - they're explained to the crowds listening that they fancy this or that horse the most, and punters new and old can take their cue from that. Also, what do you mean by 'surplus tickets'? Sorry, don't understand what's meant by that, other than it makes novices sound unwanted, which they're not.

The only thing is, you do have to remember that a lot of 'novices' will be fairweather attendees, unlikely to turn out for wet Februaries at Plumpton, but most likely to visit for a summer evening-with-music jolly at, say, Windsor or Epsom. They're happy enough to turn out for such events, but becoming an anorak about SPs and jockey stats isn't going to figure in them enjoying their basic racing. But you'd know that, I assume?

Anyway, how did all the millions of racegoers through the ages learn about racing? Most likely from their Dads or through going and asking questions. My own uncle, who wouldn't have known a gaskin from a gasket, had a very good understanding of form and jockey form by nattering with on-course bookies, buying them and the odd jockey a Scotch and generally worming out info on what to bet on more successfully from those quarters. If you set out to become a regular, you buy the RP (previously the Sporting Life as well), arm yourself with TimeForm, and go enough times to make it worthwhile.

I don't think racing needs to worry about dumbing-down because it's already changed completely from its much more stuffy, traditional ways. It's still got a long way to go, though - personally, I'd like to get shot of the 'enclosure system', do one price entry fees with the card chucked in, and let people find their own comfort levels through the food and drink amenities available - not assume that if they use the Silver Ring, they're likely to be a bunch of disreputable pikeys, and to check if the lavatory seats have been nicked by the end of day!
 
Krizon, I don't expect anyone to know who I am (which is nobody special, I'm just using my real name) so in no way take any offence that you don't. Nor do I expect anyone to be chastised for any assumptions about my knowledge of racing, many aspects of which it is very limited.

Thanks for taking the time to reply in such detail. My 'meaningless tips' comment may have been a little extreme but in answer to your question about payment I doubt the tipping panel do it for nothing either. Even though as you point out there are various explanatory notes in the racecard as there are books and websites available too. I think that human nature is that many people going for a night/day out can't be bothered to educate themselves but are more than happy to be entertained and educated at the same time. It was only an idea.

By surplus tickets, what I mean is Epsom doesn't bother booking Bjorn Again and the like on Derby Day but they do on other days when they don't expect to sell out. That is an obviously radical example but makes my point. If the racecourses that don't make a concious effort to try and get the extra people who wouldn't have been there had there been no entertainment, to enjoy the racing and return, then it does appear that do not seem worthy of any effort to keep them for future meetings as long as the meeting in question washes its face.

As for the millions of racegoers learning through their parents etc, they aren't any more because they are not going racing. That's why there are as few as eight bookmakers at Bath or Newbury on a weekday when a decade a go there would have been a virtual full house. It also explains why a racecourse would pay tens of thousands of pounds to put on a pop concert as well as racing which brings us back to the initial argument.
 
Ascot has a major problem with the issue of alcohol. Drinks are allowed anywhere it seems, so people camp out on the terraces with an alcohol supply (sometimes cooler boxes full of bottles they've brought with them)

Im surprised Ascot lets people bring in their own stuff. The best bit about the hideous ladies day at Newcastle was seeing all the sla....sorry, women.... dragging huge loads of picnic and bottles, all the way from the entrance to the racecourse, (anyone who doesn't know newcastle its a good trek up a big hill) and knowing that when they get to the gates it would all be confiscated :lol::lol: the faces on them when they got there was just hilarious
 
Thank you, Simon! It's impossible to know - unless we're signalled - what new members' backgrounds are in racing terms, so forgive me if you already know all about it (which you clearly do).

The idea of the entertainment meetings was, of course, to put on racing that would draw in people not generally attracted to 'just' racing, in the hope that they would find the experience pleasing enough to want to come back without the music and fireworks. The Derby, the Grand Nasty, etc., don't need any such inducements, as everyone knows they're going for racing's major events.

But how would you interest the average non-racegoer to go racing without pulling them in with some sort of gimmickry and then, secondly, how would you continue to attract them to keep coming back, without it? Clearly, £20 a head wasn't considered extravagant for Lingfield's Saturday night crowd (£10 students and OAPs) - and where courses have higher-profile performers, and racegoers were paying concert-style prices, there seemed to be no problem in finding thousands to cough up. If it isn't the pricing that keeps people away, if they'll come willingly when there are added attractions, then I don't think one's going to see that many more coming in, frankly. There are far too many other attractions nowadays to keep them agog elsewhere - tv being a huge factor. Why turn out on a Saturday afternoon when it's a bit misty or windy, when you can slob out at home with a pizza, a 6-pack or a bottle of Pinot Grigio, and watch footie or a film? Or consider the thousands of other forms of entertainment now available to the masses - loads of theme parks, safari parks and zoos, all with a huge tilt towards capturing the young's interest, pop concerts, bistros with live bands, blah, blah. There's a lot more to life now than Dad with his flat 'at and a couple of quid on Mr Tiddlysquids in the 3.30 at Kempton!

Warbler - stick, end of the, wrong. I wasn't chastised by PM - I was informed by it. The chastising was from Dom, who seems to assume that we gain the information she has about various posters by osmosis.
 
Im surprised Ascot lets people bring in their own stuff. The best bit about the hideous ladies day at Newcastle was seeing all the sla....sorry, women.... dragging huge loads of picnic and bottles, all the way from the entrance to the racecourse, (anyone who doesn't know newcastle its a good trek up a big hill) and knowing that when they get to the gates it would all be confiscated :lol::lol: the faces on them when they got there was just hilarious

Sandown has a dedicated picnic area and allows people to bring in a bottle or two. Seemed to work quite nicely on Eclipse day.
 
Warbler - stick, end of the, wrong. I wasn't chastised by PM - I was informed by it. The chastising was from Dom, who seems to assume that we gain the information she has about various posters by osmosis.

My humbles. I just picked up Simon's words/ interpretation. By now i suppose you know Simon writes occasionally for the Weekender, although the column should be called "Nott's Landing". It's just a case of name recognition, though in fairness to him (and Richrd Hollies - even though the latter hasn't posted) they did use their real names when a pseudonym is always open to them of course.
 
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No, I didn't know that Simon writes for The Weekender (which I must confess to never having read, so wouldn't know, anyway) - and I assume you mean Richard HOILES, dear boy? I understand that Simon writes occasionally for Racing Ahead magazine, too, the busy wee scribe!
 
Sandown has a dedicated picnic area and allows people to bring in a bottle or two. Seemed to work quite nicely on Eclipse day.

They were allowing in food and soft drinks but no alcohol, which seeing what they confiscated seemed mostly alcohol anyway!! The problem was that the picnicers were taking over most of the grass in front of the stands so finding somewhere to sit, or walking between bookies and paddock was extremely difficult.
 
I didn't chastise you Kri, but you do have a habit of patronising people very much when it is unnecessary, which is why I posted. You do seem to assume that people know nothing most of the time and need you to educate them, which isn't always the case! As Warbler says, Simon has been a regular columnist in The Weekender, after all.

As an aside, it's a shame that Richard Hoiles hasn't posted at all - he has a lot of worthwhile things to say, although I appreciate he is busy with his work and his young son.

A lot of the 'guides to racing' printed in racecards are too random and patronising - it is simply a glossary with various random terms described in four words, often described as though they were talking to five year olds. The signs at Sandown are pretty good in imparting information in a non-patronising way, why can't they do they same in the racecards? As Simon says, basic things like the difference between maidens and handicaps - or what a handicap is - aren't gone into at all at most tracks.

Sandown doesn't always have the picnic area open, Gareth; only on certain days.

Oh, and for anyone who's interested, it wasn't me sending the PM talked about!!!!
 
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