Grasshopper
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clivex, he was totally neutered because he was being monitored.
Jeez.
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Somalia
- Thread starter sunybay
- Start date
Jeez.
Second part is probably true. First is frankly beyond belief. He may have been proved right, but at that time how on earth could he be certain that tehre wasnt one chemical/atomic/ germ weapon in the whole of iraq?
Maybe he could have asked the marsh arabs or the jurds for their view?
Grasshopper
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clivex, the US Department of Defense discretionary budget for 2006 was.....wait for it......$470 Billion.
For one fiscal year.
People numbers aren't what it's about - only dollar bills - and Halliburton's slice of this particular pie, would keep Cheney et al in fresh colostomy bags for quite some time, I'm sure you would agree.
Incentive enough to go to war? Perhaps, and perhaps not. You're probably right about it not being all about the money - more about the power in Cheney's case, I would imagine.
Lockheed Martin is the "leader of the PACs" (Political Action Committees) among U.S. weapons manufacturing firms. According to published accounts by the Centre for Responsive Politics, the company made over $10.6 million in campaign contributions to candidates and party committees from 1990 to 2000, including $3.4 million in donations in the run-up to the year 2000 elections.
The company's contributions are targeted towards the politicians that are in the position to do it the most good. For example, Lockheed Martin served as one of a select group of corporate sponsors that pitched in $60,000 each to support the "Lott Hop," a dance party fundraiser that was held in honor of then Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott :lol: (funy how these names come back isn't? the guy who said that if Mississippi had elected a segregationist candidiate it wouldn't have the problems it has today - he was Republican House leader at the time) during the Republican convention in Philadelphia in the summer of 2000. The company has also pledged a $1 million contribution in support of the "Trent Lott Leadership Institute" at the University of Mississippi. (perhaps they'd like to build him a new house after the Hurricane, as he was the one who Bush rather tastelessly joked about, and said he looked forward to sitting on the verander of his newly built house with him etc)
Lockheed Martin was the top corporate contributor to members of the House Armed Services Committee during 1999/2000, and among the top ten contributors to the House Appropriations Committee. The company has strong ties to both major parties. Lockheed Martin Vice-President Bruce Jackson was a top fundraiser for the Dole for President campaign in 1996, and he was the chief drafter of the foreign policy platform of the Republican party for the year 2000 elections.
You'll remmeber Bruce Jackson Clive, he was one of the names I gave you a few months ago as a founding signatoury member of Bush's PNAC cheerleaders. Jackson isn't bashful about his involvement though;
"I wrote the Republican Party foreign Policy Platform" - Washinton Post interview
He denied lobbying for space contracts, but acknowledges his close links to the Republican Party and the Bush regime. You won't be too surprised to hear that CBS are reporting that the award of the contract to replace the Space Shuttle has gone to Lockhead Martin then? Incidentally, until very recently they had a well known space scientist on the Lockhead Martin Board called Lynn Cheney. I'll let you guess who she's involved with.
I can imagine in Bush's rather knee jerk (plenty of rhetorical evidence of that...who was the indsider that wrote that excellent book again?) macho, lazy thinking way, certain objectives were set in stone without due regard for the consequences
An element of cockiness from a over confident administration
we may well never know all the true opinions of the power brokers, but I suspect this was Bush driven. Cheney is not a nice man in many ways, but his background is pragmatic and despite Halliburton connection I suspect hes too bright to simply be one to think about his own pocket above all other considerations
We have a lot to learn about all of this
An element of cockiness from a over confident administration
we may well never know all the true opinions of the power brokers, but I suspect this was Bush driven. Cheney is not a nice man in many ways, but his background is pragmatic and despite Halliburton connection I suspect hes too bright to simply be one to think about his own pocket above all other considerations
We have a lot to learn about all of this
I would not doubt that they have some influence. As do lots of other business's. But thats along way from "largely dictating" foreign policy
You were just about indicating that this defence contractor called for and got the war.... As naive as Bush is....
i think a contract such as this is rather beyond the world of a bit of nepotism and backhanders
Grasshopper
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How can I be sure there isn't one chemical/atomic/germ weapon in your garage, clivex? You display all the right-wing leanings of the classic mountain militia man. Who's to say you haven't cooked-up some nooks in your still?
There can never be absolute certainty. Anyone who suggests as much, hasn't looked at a map, because Iraq is a fair bit bigger than your garage, and there's lots of crannies to hid nooks in.
However, with weapons inspectors there, and (albeit late) Iraqi co-operation manifesting itself in 2001, the lid was on the problem.
Indeed, in 2003, Saddam issued a Presidential decree prohibiting development of WMD. Not worth the paper it was written on? Perhaps, but I mention it, just to mention it.
Saddam had no motive to use WMD. He had no capacity to launch them, even if he had a motive.
As far as could reasonably be ascertained at the time, and with a reasonably high degree of certainty (given that the UN team were eventually given unrestricted and unannounced access to any site they thought interesting, after 2001), Iraq did not have a WMD capability prior to the Iraq War.
Personally, I'd rather that we had kept those UN inspectors in there for years to come, carrying out their 'tedious' task of ensuring a WMD capability could not be developed, than simply make shit-up in order that we could go to war with a country that was on its knees anyway.
I was worried for a bit there Gareth, as I felt sure it had been de-classified, and for about 20 mins I couldn't find it
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/northwoods.html
The link includes photo stats of the documents, the extent to which they were prepared to go took me my surprise. The false shoot down of students is well known about, as it's link to the Gulf of Tonkin incident. Some of the other plots are new to me.
Northwoods is the codename for the operation. I'm sure if pop it into Google you'll get no end of references to it now
Perhaps you'd be so good as to interpret how I should read Bruce Jacksons comment then.
"I wrote the Republican Party's Foreign Policy Platform"
Not sure I'm pointing the finger at anyone contractor (even though that can clearly be inferred by me invoking one example). The original post right back a few days ago, which was picked up by Kriz and more recently Grassy, clearly talked about an industry.
Indeed I'll re-produce what I wrote for you
"I'm sure I'm not exactly passing on any great insight when I suggest that arms industries need enemies to sustain them",
"I wrote the Republican Party's Foreign Policy Platform"
Not sure I'm pointing the finger at anyone contractor (even though that can clearly be inferred by me invoking one example). The original post right back a few days ago, which was picked up by Kriz and more recently Grassy, clearly talked about an industry.
Indeed I'll re-produce what I wrote for you
"I'm sure I'm not exactly passing on any great insight when I suggest that arms industries need enemies to sustain them",
As you know warbler, this was his role. he was also a VP at lockheed martin too
Do you think that he simply sat down and dictated the foreign policy with no input from Powell, Cheney or anyone else?
Sounds like hes biging up his role to me...
Well if you think there's an inherrant bias in the site (I'd certainly accept, there's a commercial incentive). You could try ABC, just to hopefully prove that this whole thing wasn't the product of my imagination. That the documents are presented in photostat format on the other link, and that ABC ran the story points towards it's legitimacy I'd suggest
The only thing I'd ask you to consider, is that if ruthless and unscrupulous interests ever succeeded in sticking a stupid Resident on the throne, who'd sanction their every request, is it really too big a jump to make, to think that a combination of big corporate interests and maniac militarists would be beyond these kind of activities?
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662
The only thing I'd ask you to consider, is that if ruthless and unscrupulous interests ever succeeded in sticking a stupid Resident on the throne, who'd sanction their every request, is it really too big a jump to make, to think that a combination of big corporate interests and maniac militarists would be beyond these kind of activities?
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662
If we are talking Bush, as poor as he is, this stretches things too far
Im no fan of him at all, but dislike can distort perspective.
hes neither as stupid or as cynical as some would like us to believe. Theres a reasonable amount of anecdotal evidence to that effect, even from those that are not fellow travellers in any way
You would have to be a serious cabbage to take the presidency simply to represent one lobby in the face of all other considerations
Colin Phillips
Dormant account
Ho! clivex..................I think we ARE talking SERIOUS cabbage, here.