Speeding Ticket

What in law is the definition of a real criminal ? There isn't one . What is your definition ?

A person who commits any criminal offence including regulatory or strict liability offences including an 11 year old who punches another or takes 0 pfrom his mum's purse or a person driving 1 mile above the limit when distracted or because the speedometer is defective .

A person convicted of such an offence

A person convicted of an offence that attracts a criminal record

A person who commits an offence punishable by imprisonment

A person convicted of an offence punishable by imprisonment

A person who commits or is convicted or a crime that you subjectively wish to be an offence

Take your pick
 
Ardross, I think you do see ovverbruv's point, as do I. If the Highway Code book exists to show drivers the 25,000 pieces of 'road furniture' they should observe, some of which are there as a warning, some as directional, some as regulatory, then if one is regulatory (such as a speed LIMIT), then deliberately or accidentally (as in, not watching what you're supposed to be doing) not observing a REGULATION, you are committing an offence. Of course, it's not on the scale of abducting and raping a 3 year-old child, but if you committed the offence, leading to the deaths of three pedestrians (as per An Capall's example), then it IS easily as bad, or worse. The child will recover in due time, the three dead men will not. The driver didn't get out of his car and bash their heads in, but due to driving over the REGULATION, he's killed them. That surely now makes him a criminal?

Just driving over the regulatory speed limit is obviously an offence, punishable by a fine and a blot on one's licence, as much as shoplifting or other similar offences are. If a shop pronounces that shoplifters will be prosecuted, you nick a couple of items and get caught, you're punished. I see speeding in the same category. There's a sign up saying 20, 30, 40, 50 or any other posted speed restriction, and if you ignore it, you're as likely to pay the penalty as any other offender. I'm not sure I understand the difference between being an offender and a criminal, but maybe you could let us know?
 
It's simple - if you are convicted of a simple speeding offence you do not have a criminal record. If you are convicted of shop-lifting, you do. It's roughly analogous, though nowhere near the same, with the US differentiation of felony and misdeamenour.
 
As I read An Capall's post we don't actually know what happened. The three dead may have been lying in the middle of the road. They may have been drunks rolling out of a casino and fallen in front of the car. They might have been milk roundsmen walking peacefully to work when the car mounted the pavement and hit them. Unless you know a bit more it's a bit unfair to point the finger at any of those involved.
 
Archie - :lol: :lol:

Hmmm, that doesn't actually help me to understand how the scales are weighed, one vs the other, Brian. What I wanted to know was WHAT made one thing an offence, and another a criminal act? If it's such a thing as 'intent', then if I am intent on doing 75mph in a 30mph zone, mount the pavement out of control, mash down and kill five pedestrians, am I still only guilty of an offence? In other words, all I've done is speed, so I should get a fine and probably a fair few points on my licence. I can say I didn't 'intend' to kill the people, but I did realize I was speeding, guv'nor.

DIVER - I just drew it as an analogy for the purpose of argument.
 
Originally posted by krizon@Jan 8 2006, 06:55 PM
What I wanted to know was WHAT made one thing an offence, and another a criminal act?
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They are all offences. If you park on a bus stop it is an offence under the road traffic act and you will be fined and docked points, but if you were later to be convicted of, say, fraud when the judge asked for any previous convictions it would not get a mention.
 
I used to have 3 points on my licence for speeding (57 ina 30mph zone) but not only do I not have a criminal record, I no longer have the points on my licence. Sorry Ovverbruv m'dear - but speeding doesn't necessarily make you a criminal! ) Otherwise, I'm sure you'd be in the criminal category......;)
 
Diver, your point is well made and as usual reasonable, but I believe in this instance, unfortunately, your scenarios will not be borne out.

BTW, only two of the deceased were pedestrians, the other unfortunate soul was in the passenger seat. Apparently he was thrown from the car on impact. About 50 meters. The driver is in intensive care.
 
I thought I had answered this - it is a regulatory offence and that is why it doesn't need to be declared . In some circumstances such as if you are applying to be a taxi driver you do still have to declare it even though it does not give you a crimina lrecord .Thus ovverbruv was wrong . The other points I raised were more about the question of legal positivism and natural law i.e what makes you a criminal , breaking the law , being convicted of an offence or committing a offence though many believe it not to be wrong or committing a wrong although it is not an offence .

The felony/misdemeanour analogy is not correct . The distinction has been abolished here but it is much closer to offences tried in crown courts and in magistrates courts i.e serious /minor offences . Though theft is an either way offence for example .

Archie - quite witty well done but legally wholly inaccurate :P
 
Sorry Ovverbruv m'dear - but speeding doesn't necessarily make you a criminal! ) Otherwise, I'm sure you'd be in the criminal category
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Only if and when im ever caught Dom but you're right, i am breaking the law when i speed. Good job i wasnt going very fast when we were in that mini prang Dom!!!!
 
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Yes, you were lucky there Mike!!!! To be fair, it was hard to call! My one & only car accident came when I went up someone else's backside - it was at a junction and she went to pull out & then slammed her brakes on whilst pulling out! D'oh!!

Actually, I lie - I wiped out a lad on a moped in Gib too - but it was the dozy git's fault. I was indicating to go left around the roundabout (we drive on the right here) yet the silly twat decided to stick his foot down & accelerate down my inside [left side] where I couldn't see him, whilst I was turning. Silly little prick - him, his moped & the girl on the back flew across the road for a long way as he caught my inside wing. Bloody mopeds should be banned around here - 90% of the poeple that ride them are utterly brainless.
 
Having spent the best part of a day trying to find my driving licence, (it was in the car :cry: ) I sent back the form with all the requested information.I also put in a small note of apology pointing out my previous driving history of no accidents or convictions in the vain hope I would get away with a warning. Today I have received a reply. Here's the deal.

They will not issue the fixed penalty notice of £60 plus the three penalty points if I attend a speed awareness course lasting three hours at either Banbury, Milton Keynes or somewhere else in the galaxy I have never heard of. This will cost me £71 not withstanding a long journey to and from Cornwall and possibly accommodation etc on one or two nights. If I try and do the whole thing in one day then arguably tiredness wiill be a factor near the end of the day and could cause an accident on the journey home,

Think I will take the fine and the points which is presumably not what they are trying to achieve.. I have nothing against attending such a course but leaving all travel costs ets aside should they not be structuring the cost of the speed awareness course at an amount less than the fixed penalty to encourage people to attend the course and be suitably educated which they are at great pains to advise is their policy rather than prosecution?
 
Now is the time to start the games - write to them to tell them that you would much prefer to attend one of their speed awareness courses as you genuinely believe that you would gain a lot from it. The problem is that you need to be able to go to one which is much more local as otherwise you will be caused hardship because of your family circumstances. You are aware that they would not want to behave in a discriminatory fashion and propose that they run one of their courses in your part of the world - an area, from what you see every day of your life, which would benefit greatly from such an event. Alternatively, you would be quite happy to meet on a one-to-one basis with their lecturer whenever she can make herself available in your part of the world.
 
Originally posted by Kathy@Jan 13 2006, 07:21 PM
That's the first time I heard of that deal DG! :unsure:
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A friend who lives near Milton Keynes had the same deal offered to her. She went along and got the lecture but at least her licence remained clean.

DG, can't they let you go on one of these courses with another police force? Surely it's all the same stuff nationwide? If not, go and stay the night with my parents in MK :lol:
 
My late Great Aunt was given the same deal around 6 years ago - and went on the course. She said everyone's mouth dropped to see a 60 year old woman walk in - everyone else was male and the average age was in their 30s!
 
I wish I'd been offered that kind of deal. I got a £60 fine and three points three years ago, spoiling a lifetime's clean licence. An HGV overtook me in a 40mph section of road with which I wasn't 100% familiar. He then braked so I deftly manoeuvred out to overtake, by which time we had entered a 30mph zone, which I hadn't seen coming. As I eased back in and slowed I was aware of the flash and the rest, as they say...
 
Yeah, but three points is neither here nor there, Mo. They'll come off your licence anyhow - I'm pretty sure they come off your licence within 3 years but insurance companies take account of them for 5 years and they stay on your record for 5 years, or something like that. Anyhow, my licence is completely clean after getting 3 points in 2000. It doesn't always affect your insurance premium either - depends on the company. So many people have SP30s on their licence that it doesn't make much of a difference.
 
It didn't affect my insurance but I always prided myself on my clean licence so these things upset me.

My mates laugh when I tell them I retired from football at 26 when I got my first ever yellow card. I didn't mean to foul the guy but I was the last man, even though we were only just inside our half. I was more than a tad upset with myself and gave it up!

If I'd got those three points on my licence at that age I'd probably have given it up too.
 
You don't half beat yourself up, don't you, Mo? :( I think I obsess over personal issues, but you're at least three fences ahead! What a terribly high bar of perfection you've set yourself - have you always been like this? :o
 
bernardo retired from football after the first game in which he didn't get a yellow card




This egg will be scrambled and a little shaved smoke salmon added at breakfast time on 15th January

egg.jpg
 
I'm not as bad as I used to be, honest! I wish I understood why I was/am like that.

I played for my school teams from Primary on. My Secondary coach wouldn't play anyone who shirked a tackle or turned their back if the ball was slamming towards them but neither would he play anyone who set out to hurt an opponent (and we still won the league every year). I/we had a reputation for being as hard as f*ck but very fair and sporting.

Enthusiasts of astrology tell me it's because I'm a Virgo but I don't believe in astrology.

Maybe it's because I want people to have a high opinion of me since I suffer badly from low self-esteem. I don't really know :confused:
 
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