walsworth
Journeyman
I know it’s an old chestnut, but does anyone know one that works? I’ve tried several over the years without any success.
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Staking Plans
- Thread starter walsworth
- Start date
Ian_Davies
Conditional
I always have several projects I'm running at any given time (about 15 at the moment this year) and I have separate betting banks and P/Ls for all of them.
I won't stake more than 2% of my individual bank for any project on any bet within that project and my stake can be anything from 0.1% to the full 2% (a max bet).
I'm incredibly risk averse and nowadays happily sacrifice potentially much higher annual profits for no sleepless nights.
Plus I'm in the happy position (though this is to be expected at 62, ffs) of being mortgage free, hence not depending on my betting profits to live.
I'm having a much tougher year than last year - my overall 2025 ROI as of Sunday night was a lousy 2.2% across all activity.
It was so much better last year when one project was ROI 18% and accounted for 75% of my overall profit and my overall ROI on 2024 was 10.6%.
This year that particular project is only just in profit so far - FML.
I won't stake more than 2% of my individual bank for any project on any bet within that project and my stake can be anything from 0.1% to the full 2% (a max bet).
I'm incredibly risk averse and nowadays happily sacrifice potentially much higher annual profits for no sleepless nights.
Plus I'm in the happy position (though this is to be expected at 62, ffs) of being mortgage free, hence not depending on my betting profits to live.
I'm having a much tougher year than last year - my overall 2025 ROI as of Sunday night was a lousy 2.2% across all activity.
It was so much better last year when one project was ROI 18% and accounted for 75% of my overall profit and my overall ROI on 2024 was 10.6%.
This year that particular project is only just in profit so far - FML.
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Dingo Bingo
Amateur Rider
I've never bothered looking at ROI the way ian is describing above. For me the ROI is whatever I put aside at the start, compared ot what it is at the end of the season, so it's not a calculation I consider necessary.
Regarding staking, it's a comfortable limit thing with me. At the start of the year I stake 5% down to 1% (0.5% EW), else why bother? it's either a bet or it isn't, right? I used to be more rigid with that mindset and be 5%, 2.5% and 1.25% at the start of each season
These days I start with more (exception being this season, as have other stuff going on) and rarely stake 5%. I'm also much more likely to stake 2.5% EW than I am 5% WIN. Which is why I start with more of a range these days, as it's a comfort thing with me. Usually by the time the May york meeting comes around, I'm just betting to within my comfort level, which seems ot be 800 WIN or 400 EW. I don't know wy I have this mental barrier, but it's there. I will place more on a horse at times, but I become very anxious about the bet for some reason, regrdless of what the current state of my balance is.
The common shown statistics about being better off backing WIN than EW doesn't wash with me either. Losing runs are longer for one and confidence can become shattered without those place saftey nets in place. A run of seconditis becomes quite tolerable, annoying, but definetley tolerable. So yes, on paper at the end of the season, it may well be that EW is for mugs long term, but it's all about keepign a level head and staying calm. EW betting helps me no end in that area. Like i said previously, I will have more on an EW bet than I would a Win bet and endure 50% less anxiety.
Each to their own though, it's all about what is most suitable for ones own mindset and financial situation. I spend my winnings at the end of the season.
I'm also the same as Ian in the sense of no mortage etc. I couldn't imagine having to finance general living from betting returns. I did it in my early - mid 20's, and it wasn;t a nice experience. Even then, i had back up, could call around to family for food if things got really shitty one month. I'd then party and 'join in' with society when things were going well. Wasn't a nice experience at times during those couple of rock n roll roller coaster years.
Regarding staking, it's a comfortable limit thing with me. At the start of the year I stake 5% down to 1% (0.5% EW), else why bother? it's either a bet or it isn't, right? I used to be more rigid with that mindset and be 5%, 2.5% and 1.25% at the start of each season
These days I start with more (exception being this season, as have other stuff going on) and rarely stake 5%. I'm also much more likely to stake 2.5% EW than I am 5% WIN. Which is why I start with more of a range these days, as it's a comfort thing with me. Usually by the time the May york meeting comes around, I'm just betting to within my comfort level, which seems ot be 800 WIN or 400 EW. I don't know wy I have this mental barrier, but it's there. I will place more on a horse at times, but I become very anxious about the bet for some reason, regrdless of what the current state of my balance is.
The common shown statistics about being better off backing WIN than EW doesn't wash with me either. Losing runs are longer for one and confidence can become shattered without those place saftey nets in place. A run of seconditis becomes quite tolerable, annoying, but definetley tolerable. So yes, on paper at the end of the season, it may well be that EW is for mugs long term, but it's all about keepign a level head and staying calm. EW betting helps me no end in that area. Like i said previously, I will have more on an EW bet than I would a Win bet and endure 50% less anxiety.
Each to their own though, it's all about what is most suitable for ones own mindset and financial situation. I spend my winnings at the end of the season.
I'm also the same as Ian in the sense of no mortage etc. I couldn't imagine having to finance general living from betting returns. I did it in my early - mid 20's, and it wasn;t a nice experience. Even then, i had back up, could call around to family for food if things got really shitty one month. I'd then party and 'join in' with society when things were going well. Wasn't a nice experience at times during those couple of rock n roll roller coaster years.
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Dingo Bingo
Amateur Rider
In a more direct reply to Walsworth. I don't think variable stakign based on odds attainable hold any water. There is a plausible possibility that variable staking based on percieved value is worthwhile, but that's on paper. In the real world you'd end up doign your nut in, "should have had less on", "should have had more on". Last thing you need imo.
I think there's probably much more in breaking it down to field size, which inadvertantly is kind of what I do anyway (I'm sure most do), as it's kind of the default position you're taking regarding risk. Your going to have more confidence in a 10 runner field at Ponty, than 22 runners at York.
Percentage staking works, because it's essentially level stakes. If you set level stakes as a proportion of your starting balance, then all you're really doing is resetting the balance periodically.
I think there's probably much more in breaking it down to field size, which inadvertantly is kind of what I do anyway (I'm sure most do), as it's kind of the default position you're taking regarding risk. Your going to have more confidence in a 10 runner field at Ponty, than 22 runners at York.
Percentage staking works, because it's essentially level stakes. If you set level stakes as a proportion of your starting balance, then all you're really doing is resetting the balance periodically.
Danny
Journeyman
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2013
- Messages
- 2,458
Whilst Dingo and Ian bother offer fairly sound advice and my own staking down the years seemed to have all the stability of a wet dog on acid I'll offer a couple of thoughts on the subject.
One trail of thought may be your maximum stake should be every stake. If you don't want your maximum stake on then ask yourself why ? Because I think it's got a chance but I'm not sure ? If you're not sure why would you bet ? Are you betting for fun or profit ? Most punters myself included are action junkies we like having a bet. How many times a year do you actually get the feeling you want to shovel money onto something that it simply can't be beat ? A handful of times ? This feeling for me actually gets less and less with age and experience I second guess myself on everything and it's rare my confidence levels are high. But let's at least say they come around as often as the gas bill, you've got to find one certainty every quarter at least havent you ? strap on the punting pants and punt like a man maximum on every one and I'm sure we'd all fare better.
Perhaps 4 to maybe half a dozen bets a year doesn't do it for you. Then like an ultra disciplined buddy of mine does have a strict line. Entertainment bets on a very small level, for your every day general fancies maybe even small multiples. Then get the wedge out when something tasty comes along.
Another friend of mine who was a pro punter for many years was also not very disciplined when it came to staking. He once said to me throw enough shit and something will stick. He also said if he'd of done everything by a sensible staking strategy he'd of never got far he'd have gone around in circles as his living costs were eating up his profits and his main capital wouldn't have grown much. If it weren't for having the balls to go a bit bigger than he should from time to time and a few multiples here and there he'd have never have progressed to where he did.
It all depends what you want from your punting. If you are just purely doing it for enjoyment then to me if your punting sensibly and percentage betting from a bank does if really matter if you end up 5% up or 5% down a year ? If it wasn't about enjoyment and it was all about the 5% growth then you could throw everything in a bond and forget about it. Plus the hours you save from endless form study you would have done can be put to better use and make more money than you would have done from betting anyway. I think it was Dingo who once said to me with the hours he'd spent learning about horse racing he could of become a brain surgeon twice over.
From a personal point of view I've changed in as much as I look at everything with what's the purpose ? What's it going to do for my life ? Like these pair I'm also mortgage free but wear it less as a badge of honour and more of an admission to wearing it like a ball and chain around my neck. I love punting ,I love horse racing when personal disasters subside and allow me to partake before the next wave hits. But for me now it makes no difference to my life. I work , I go out and eat when I want, where I want get to have a couple of holidays a year and generally manage to keep up with the next part of the house that falls apart and needs replacing. That happens whether I win or lose. Big chunks of dough are obviously helpful it's the next kitchen, car, roof or whatever comes next to keep me running on this hamster wheel of doom until the day I can't afford to retire on a wanky pension.
It's going to take a bloody big win for it to have any impact on my life so why would i attempt anything else ? I did start out at the beginning of last jumps season with that mindset but I've just had a horrendous time of things in my personal life for the last 5 months or so hopefully the dust is starting to settle once more. I've missed most of the flat season but I'm trying to catch up a little but hope to be in full flight by the time the jumps and the all weather season arrives. So will be going on the hunt for one last big payday. If I lose in the long run chasing a big one so be it. I don't think you ever really win anything if you're afraid to lose.
Throwing all those previous thoughts aside. People over complicate things. Ultimately quality of your selections will matter more than staking so long as you don't punt like a complete lunatic you'll be fine.
One trail of thought may be your maximum stake should be every stake. If you don't want your maximum stake on then ask yourself why ? Because I think it's got a chance but I'm not sure ? If you're not sure why would you bet ? Are you betting for fun or profit ? Most punters myself included are action junkies we like having a bet. How many times a year do you actually get the feeling you want to shovel money onto something that it simply can't be beat ? A handful of times ? This feeling for me actually gets less and less with age and experience I second guess myself on everything and it's rare my confidence levels are high. But let's at least say they come around as often as the gas bill, you've got to find one certainty every quarter at least havent you ? strap on the punting pants and punt like a man maximum on every one and I'm sure we'd all fare better.
Perhaps 4 to maybe half a dozen bets a year doesn't do it for you. Then like an ultra disciplined buddy of mine does have a strict line. Entertainment bets on a very small level, for your every day general fancies maybe even small multiples. Then get the wedge out when something tasty comes along.
Another friend of mine who was a pro punter for many years was also not very disciplined when it came to staking. He once said to me throw enough shit and something will stick. He also said if he'd of done everything by a sensible staking strategy he'd of never got far he'd have gone around in circles as his living costs were eating up his profits and his main capital wouldn't have grown much. If it weren't for having the balls to go a bit bigger than he should from time to time and a few multiples here and there he'd have never have progressed to where he did.
It all depends what you want from your punting. If you are just purely doing it for enjoyment then to me if your punting sensibly and percentage betting from a bank does if really matter if you end up 5% up or 5% down a year ? If it wasn't about enjoyment and it was all about the 5% growth then you could throw everything in a bond and forget about it. Plus the hours you save from endless form study you would have done can be put to better use and make more money than you would have done from betting anyway. I think it was Dingo who once said to me with the hours he'd spent learning about horse racing he could of become a brain surgeon twice over.
From a personal point of view I've changed in as much as I look at everything with what's the purpose ? What's it going to do for my life ? Like these pair I'm also mortgage free but wear it less as a badge of honour and more of an admission to wearing it like a ball and chain around my neck. I love punting ,I love horse racing when personal disasters subside and allow me to partake before the next wave hits. But for me now it makes no difference to my life. I work , I go out and eat when I want, where I want get to have a couple of holidays a year and generally manage to keep up with the next part of the house that falls apart and needs replacing. That happens whether I win or lose. Big chunks of dough are obviously helpful it's the next kitchen, car, roof or whatever comes next to keep me running on this hamster wheel of doom until the day I can't afford to retire on a wanky pension.
It's going to take a bloody big win for it to have any impact on my life so why would i attempt anything else ? I did start out at the beginning of last jumps season with that mindset but I've just had a horrendous time of things in my personal life for the last 5 months or so hopefully the dust is starting to settle once more. I've missed most of the flat season but I'm trying to catch up a little but hope to be in full flight by the time the jumps and the all weather season arrives. So will be going on the hunt for one last big payday. If I lose in the long run chasing a big one so be it. I don't think you ever really win anything if you're afraid to lose.
Throwing all those previous thoughts aside. People over complicate things. Ultimately quality of your selections will matter more than staking so long as you don't punt like a complete lunatic you'll be fine.
Ian_Davies
Conditional
Interesting posts.
And there is imo no "right" or "wrong" as imo betting is a complicated business, both mathematically and psychologically, and we are all different and have different agendas.
My father was an Economist (he had a book published on the subject) and though he had flirted with racing and betting in his youth, I got him more into it.
He talked a lot about things like cost benefit and opportunity cost.
In layman's terms, he spoke of having free time outside his job and extra disposable income and what he chose to do with it.
If he wasn't devoting hundreds or thousands of hours to studying form, betting and watching racing, what would he be doing instead?
More to the point, what would that "instead" be costing him?
He argued that if he simply broke even on the year, by swerving costly alternative pursuits he was actually saving/profiting by thousands in terms of what else he'd be doing to entertain himself and enjoy his life.
He reckoned that anyone who enjoyed their job and had a recreational pastime that didn't actually cost them anything had life by the bollocks.
And if you actually made a regular profit?
Well, Nirvana, Utopia, choose your own superlative.
He had a lot of bets, the antithesis of the notion Danny floats, but then he probably had a different agenda to Danny, even if it might ultimately be the common pursuit we all surely share - enjoying our lives.
I have also heard punters say you have to stake so it hurts if you lose.
That doesn't work for me - being up and down like a dog at the fair in terms of morale does nothing for my judgment.
A big part of why I historically (tomorrow is a new day - I may never back another winner) have thus far managed to keep my head above water is that, despite all my "wolf from the door" nonsense, the reality is I don't actually need to win in order to eat and keep a roof over my head, so I stay calm.
I'm not materialistic either - my life operating costs are very low.
All this, and my many eggs in many baskets staking, means I am in a perpetual comfort zone - happy when I win, but jocular and philosophical and even "FML!" "Devil vomits in my kettle!" jocular on the losing days.
I don't win as much as I used to, but I'm happier on a day-to-day basis and I'm in a place in my life where I value steady contentment over money I would struggle to know what to do with anyway if I acquired a lot more of it.
And there is imo no "right" or "wrong" as imo betting is a complicated business, both mathematically and psychologically, and we are all different and have different agendas.
My father was an Economist (he had a book published on the subject) and though he had flirted with racing and betting in his youth, I got him more into it.
He talked a lot about things like cost benefit and opportunity cost.
In layman's terms, he spoke of having free time outside his job and extra disposable income and what he chose to do with it.
If he wasn't devoting hundreds or thousands of hours to studying form, betting and watching racing, what would he be doing instead?
More to the point, what would that "instead" be costing him?
He argued that if he simply broke even on the year, by swerving costly alternative pursuits he was actually saving/profiting by thousands in terms of what else he'd be doing to entertain himself and enjoy his life.
He reckoned that anyone who enjoyed their job and had a recreational pastime that didn't actually cost them anything had life by the bollocks.
And if you actually made a regular profit?
Well, Nirvana, Utopia, choose your own superlative.
He had a lot of bets, the antithesis of the notion Danny floats, but then he probably had a different agenda to Danny, even if it might ultimately be the common pursuit we all surely share - enjoying our lives.
I have also heard punters say you have to stake so it hurts if you lose.
That doesn't work for me - being up and down like a dog at the fair in terms of morale does nothing for my judgment.
A big part of why I historically (tomorrow is a new day - I may never back another winner) have thus far managed to keep my head above water is that, despite all my "wolf from the door" nonsense, the reality is I don't actually need to win in order to eat and keep a roof over my head, so I stay calm.
I'm not materialistic either - my life operating costs are very low.
All this, and my many eggs in many baskets staking, means I am in a perpetual comfort zone - happy when I win, but jocular and philosophical and even "FML!" "Devil vomits in my kettle!" jocular on the losing days.
I don't win as much as I used to, but I'm happier on a day-to-day basis and I'm in a place in my life where I value steady contentment over money I would struggle to know what to do with anyway if I acquired a lot more of it.
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Danny
Journeyman
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2013
- Messages
- 2,458
" He reckoned that anyone who enjoyed their job and had a recreational pastime that didn't actually cost them anything had life by the bollocks."
Basically this. I heard somewhat of a different version of the definition of being rich as , " Spending as much time doing what you "want" to be doing whatever that may be and as little time doing what you "have" to be doing regardless of money and material wealth."
Basically this. I heard somewhat of a different version of the definition of being rich as , " Spending as much time doing what you "want" to be doing whatever that may be and as little time doing what you "have" to be doing regardless of money and material wealth."
NumberCruncher
Amateur Rider
For me, the style of betting and the level of success you achieve should be a factor in deciding what staking plan to use. And if like Ian you have a number of projects with separate banks on the go at any one time (which is the approach I take), the staking plan could be different for each.
The best I have come across for my own betting style is one called the Rising Floor Staking Plan (RFSP), and I use that for all my projects. To give credit where it’s due, it was originally developed by someone posting as MrFox almost 20 years ago on a site that I think may have been run by the creator of this site. The updates to excel over the years have somehow unlocked all the cells, so I can now freely adapt it to suit my purposes!
I created a thread a while back about matchbets which also had details about the RFSP, but basically it amends your stake each betting day. If you had a winning day and your bank is now at the highest it has been, the floor rises and stakes are calculated as a percentage of the bank (you decide on the percentage to use). If you had a losing day, it increases your stake by a proportion of how far below the floor you currently are, and again the parameters that determine how aggressive this is are set by yourself (I use a relatively conservative setting). So to Danny's point, you always have your highest stakes on your winning bets.
There is a safety net which resets the floor if you are losing too much, which is set as 85% of your highest end of day bank (i.e. the floor). As the cells are now unlocked, this could be adapted to suit your own preferences. If you bet for fun and generally lose over the long term, then this won't be suitable, it's aimed more at those that at least get relatively close to break even.
To give some examples, the spreadsheet for my July results (which aren’t great) on matchbets look like this:
The best I have come across for my own betting style is one called the Rising Floor Staking Plan (RFSP), and I use that for all my projects. To give credit where it’s due, it was originally developed by someone posting as MrFox almost 20 years ago on a site that I think may have been run by the creator of this site. The updates to excel over the years have somehow unlocked all the cells, so I can now freely adapt it to suit my purposes!
I created a thread a while back about matchbets which also had details about the RFSP, but basically it amends your stake each betting day. If you had a winning day and your bank is now at the highest it has been, the floor rises and stakes are calculated as a percentage of the bank (you decide on the percentage to use). If you had a losing day, it increases your stake by a proportion of how far below the floor you currently are, and again the parameters that determine how aggressive this is are set by yourself (I use a relatively conservative setting). So to Danny's point, you always have your highest stakes on your winning bets.
There is a safety net which resets the floor if you are losing too much, which is set as 85% of your highest end of day bank (i.e. the floor). As the cells are now unlocked, this could be adapted to suit your own preferences. If you bet for fun and generally lose over the long term, then this won't be suitable, it's aimed more at those that at least get relatively close to break even.
To give some examples, the spreadsheet for my July results (which aren’t great) on matchbets look like this:
Attachments
NumberCruncher
Amateur Rider
My new project (which I've only recently started paper trading) is taking what I've learnt about the ratings on matchbets, and applying it to normal selections. In that spreadsheet I have settings for selecting proportions on win vs place stake - my preference is 25% win and 75% place rather than EW.
That one looks like this:
That one looks like this:
Attachments
Dingo Bingo
Amateur Rider
For me a bet is a coin toss, a die roll, or maybe a 'weighted in my favour' die roll.
I'm not staking the same on all three situations, nor am I only backing coin tosses and kicking myself in the bollocks serveral times per month.
barjon
Rookie
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2020
- Messages
- 4,519
Interesting posts. I always had a decent job, but once thought I could make a serious difference from betting. Soon found out didn’t have the balls to raise the stakes much above fun level, let alone the level necessary make that serious difference.
Many, many years ago the Daily Mail (I think) tried to make a thousand by rolling up a starting £1 bet on horses priced at evens. Takes ten bets and remarkably they got to around seven before the loser arrived. It intrigued me and I tried something similar, but only rolling up half the winnings, then starting again after a loser. As you might expect I was starting again quite often, but one run kept going and even though I was playing with “their” money and had profit tucked away I just couldn’t bring myself raise the stakes (restrictions would do the samefor you today!)
Today, I have a fun account and a main account for the more serious stuff which still has the colour of that long ago attempt. Prices averaging around 5/4 and some increase in stake level. Only had fourteen bets this season so far, but ten of those have won.
Many, many years ago the Daily Mail (I think) tried to make a thousand by rolling up a starting £1 bet on horses priced at evens. Takes ten bets and remarkably they got to around seven before the loser arrived. It intrigued me and I tried something similar, but only rolling up half the winnings, then starting again after a loser. As you might expect I was starting again quite often, but one run kept going and even though I was playing with “their” money and had profit tucked away I just couldn’t bring myself raise the stakes (restrictions would do the samefor you today!)
Today, I have a fun account and a main account for the more serious stuff which still has the colour of that long ago attempt. Prices averaging around 5/4 and some increase in stake level. Only had fourteen bets this season so far, but ten of those have won.
Dingo Bingo
Amateur Rider
That certainly sounds like something I'd have said. I also recall saying on certain seasons, that I'd have been financially better off picking fruit for a farmer.
walsworth
Journeyman
You all seem much more organised than me.
Dingo Bingo
Amateur Rider
80 hours was about right, but I think that can be reduced to 60 - 65 these days, if time is spent efficiently. Focusing on a smaller area, not spending hours on large fields where stakes are likely to be smaller anyway. Saying that, 10 hours per day are long shifts and it's never really just that, as it's on your mind. It's that working for yourself thing, rather than for someone else where you can 'switch off'.
I'll be refusing to enter soon and declaring myself a NR, as I need to focus on getting this restaurant up and running the way I envisage it. Racing will be taking a back seat, probably untill 2027. I still have some noted runners I'm very interested in, but I'm not reviewing replays or taking notes. Nothing more than a brief CD/Going check. Then that's me done. Was always going to be that way this year. I tried to do both, but I was starting to burn out last week (absolute exhaustion and loss of focus on both) and we're only mid season, despite me using just about every shortcut I know of to reduce the workload, I just can't maintain both. I haven't been happy while trying either, quite down and apathetic in general.
I'll be refusing to enter soon and declaring myself a NR, as I need to focus on getting this restaurant up and running the way I envisage it. Racing will be taking a back seat, probably untill 2027. I still have some noted runners I'm very interested in, but I'm not reviewing replays or taking notes. Nothing more than a brief CD/Going check. Then that's me done. Was always going to be that way this year. I tried to do both, but I was starting to burn out last week (absolute exhaustion and loss of focus on both) and we're only mid season, despite me using just about every shortcut I know of to reduce the workload, I just can't maintain both. I haven't been happy while trying either, quite down and apathetic in general.
Slim
Rookie
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2019
- Messages
- 4,169
GaylordI always have several projects I'm running at any given time (about 15 at the moment this year) and I have separate betting banks and P/Ls for all of them.
I won't stake more than 2% of my individual bank for any project on any bet within that project and my stake can be anything from 0.1% to the full 2% (a max bet).
I'm incredibly risk averse and nowadays happily sacrifice potentially much higher annual profits for no sleepless nights.
Plus I'm in the happy position (though this is to be expected at 62, ffs) of being mortgage free, hence not depending on my betting profits to live.
I'm having a much tougher year than last year - my overall 2025 ROI as of Sunday night was a lousy 2.2% across all activity.
It was so much better last year when one project was ROI 18% and accounted for 75% of my overall profit and my overall ROI on 2024 was 10.6%.
This year that particular project is only just in profit so far - FML.
Slim
Rookie
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- 4,169
GaylordI've never bothered looking at ROI the way ian is describing above. For me the ROI is whatever I put aside at the start, compared ot what it is at the end of the season, so it's not a calculation I consider necessary.
Regarding staking, it's a comfortable limit thing with me. At the start of the year I stake 5% down to 1% (0.5% EW), else why bother? it's either a bet or it isn't, right? I used to be more rigid with that mindset and be 5%, 2.5% and 1.25% at the start of each season
These days I start with more (exception being this season, as have other stuff going on) and rarely stake 5%. I'm also much more likely to stake 2.5% EW than I am 5% WIN. Which is why I start with more of a range these days, as it's a comfort thing with me. Usually by the time the May york meeting comes around, I'm just betting to within my comfort level, which seems ot be 800 WIN or 400 EW. I don't know wy I have this mental barrier, but it's there. I will place more on a horse at times, but I become very anxious about the bet for some reason, regrdless of what the current state of my balance is.
The common shown statistics about being better off backing WIN than EW doesn't wash with me either. Losing runs are longer for one and confidence can become shattered without those place saftey nets in place. A run of seconditis becomes quite tolerable, annoying, but definetley tolerable. So yes, on paper at the end of the season, it may well be that EW is for mugs long term, but it's all about keepign a level head and staying calm. EW betting helps me no end in that area. Like i said previously, I will have more on an EW bet than I would a Win bet and endure 50% less anxiety.
Each to their own though, it's all about what is most suitable for ones own mindset and financial situation. I spend my winnings at the end of the season.
I'm also the same as Ian in the sense of no mortage etc. I couldn't imagine having to finance general living from betting returns. I did it in my early - mid 20's, and it wasn;t a nice experience. Even then, i had back up, could call around to family for food if things got really shitty one month. I'd then party and 'join in' with society when things were going well. Wasn't a nice experience at times during those couple of rock n roll roller coaster years.
Barnestormer
Amateur Rider
Let me share a tale with you from 40 years ago.
In my pre marital years I used to go racing regularly and never missed the York three day meetings. I used to stop over at the Croft Hotel on the corner of the Mount/Scarcroft Road.
This particular time I went down for breakfast early (as always) to get back to studying that days racing ASAP.
There was just one other guy who seemed aloof so I just asked him if he thought he would be lucky today.
There's no luck involved it's my profession he replied and informed me he was a professional gambler.
I was intrigued and asked him if he had a staking plan or what his methods were.
He said he had two rules that he never broke.
Wait for it..........
1 I go for a run for an hour every morning at 5am
2 I never drink alcohol after 5pm
I thought this guy sounds a bundle of f$%^ing laughs.
Anyway we carried on talking and he informed me that he had a minimum of 10 bets per year and a maximum of 15 bets a year all four figure bets and hoped to net 25k per year which he had achieved 5 times in the last six years.
He never bought racing papers (swayed his judgement) relied on his own handicapping methods and only bet on the Flat in Group 1 and Group 2 races UK only.
During our conversation I mentioned a horse that had run at Chester the previous week and he said 'Oh yeah I was there I attend every May meeting there'
Did you win I asked.
Oh no I didn't have a bet I was just there for contacts and making notes for future races.
I don't dispute this guy made money from his gambling but boy he was a miserable bastard.
By the way he had a dictaphone (way before mobile phones) that he took everywhere on the racecourse.
I personally have never adhered to a staking plan but I get a great deal of enjoyment out of racing.
Footnote to the above story:
The guy said he had been jogging that morning the day I spoke to him and had bumped into Steve Cauthen hoping to shed a couple of pounds before racing.
Intrigued I said "what did he say?"
To which he replied "he thinks Cutlers Corner will go well in the last race"
"Will you be backing it" I queried.
"Oh no jockeys are the worst tipsters in the world" was his reply.
That day Steve Cauthen had six mounts three of which were losing favourites.
His only winner was Cutlers Corner @ 11/2!!!!!
In my pre marital years I used to go racing regularly and never missed the York three day meetings. I used to stop over at the Croft Hotel on the corner of the Mount/Scarcroft Road.
This particular time I went down for breakfast early (as always) to get back to studying that days racing ASAP.
There was just one other guy who seemed aloof so I just asked him if he thought he would be lucky today.
There's no luck involved it's my profession he replied and informed me he was a professional gambler.
I was intrigued and asked him if he had a staking plan or what his methods were.
He said he had two rules that he never broke.
Wait for it..........
1 I go for a run for an hour every morning at 5am
2 I never drink alcohol after 5pm
I thought this guy sounds a bundle of f$%^ing laughs.
Anyway we carried on talking and he informed me that he had a minimum of 10 bets per year and a maximum of 15 bets a year all four figure bets and hoped to net 25k per year which he had achieved 5 times in the last six years.
He never bought racing papers (swayed his judgement) relied on his own handicapping methods and only bet on the Flat in Group 1 and Group 2 races UK only.
During our conversation I mentioned a horse that had run at Chester the previous week and he said 'Oh yeah I was there I attend every May meeting there'
Did you win I asked.
Oh no I didn't have a bet I was just there for contacts and making notes for future races.
I don't dispute this guy made money from his gambling but boy he was a miserable bastard.
By the way he had a dictaphone (way before mobile phones) that he took everywhere on the racecourse.
I personally have never adhered to a staking plan but I get a great deal of enjoyment out of racing.
Footnote to the above story:
The guy said he had been jogging that morning the day I spoke to him and had bumped into Steve Cauthen hoping to shed a couple of pounds before racing.
Intrigued I said "what did he say?"
To which he replied "he thinks Cutlers Corner will go well in the last race"
"Will you be backing it" I queried.
"Oh no jockeys are the worst tipsters in the world" was his reply.
That day Steve Cauthen had six mounts three of which were losing favourites.
His only winner was Cutlers Corner @ 11/2!!!!!
Dingo Bingo
Amateur Rider
William Hill screen puncher.
Danny
Journeyman
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2013
- Messages
- 2,458
You've misinterpreted my wet dog on acid staking plan.
Ian_Davies
Conditional
From Wikipedia: "Gaylord is a name of Norman French origin, from the Old French gaillard meaning "joyful" or "high-spirited".
It's a fair cop.
