Stewards Grow Some Balls...

Sheikh said:
You can't just blame the betting exchanges either.
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Of course not but since the advent of the exchanges it's got so much easier to do (profit from negative information),the amount of clearly "not off" horses that run on a daily basis tells its own story.
 
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The original use of the word finesse in connection with racing was when a trainer managed to place a horse to its least advantage with a view to convincing all and sundry that it was no good before suddenly finding that the horse was better suited by a different trip/ground/riding tactics etc when winning - surprise, surprise at inflated odds.

Harder to do these days with all the video evidence and form information available to punters, but still certainly carried out and several trainers are masters of it. There was a rather nice one carried out up North recently, if my eyes didn't deceive me. I'll leave it to the more experienced/cynical bunch to work out who/what I'm on about, but I for one won't be complaining about it because I was able to spot it and take advantage too. :D
 
Irish Stamp said:
http://www.racingpost.com/horses/result_home.sd?race_id=486595&r_date=2009-07-15&popup=yes

Luke - any particular reason why the sudden improvement in form came in conjunction with a 20/1 into 9/2 EP gamble?
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The horse had not been eating up well at home but showed signs of coming to hand and reoccurrence of the flat form was inevitable in which the stable felt confident they have got their horse back and duly obliged in betting from odds they thought were bigger than what Secret Dancer had been shown, took a chance and it paid off.

That’s my initial thoughts, of course it would be easier to say the yard were sinister in stopping the horse.
 
Redhead - you are so shrewd, well done. That post would get 1.25 million replies on the Betfair forum, none of them as nice as mine.
 
Luke, what are your thoughts on Sir Mark Prescott?

I also refer you to animal named "Topcroft" who has been running well of late...
 
LukeWilson said:
The horse had not been eating up well at home but showed signs of coming to hand and reoccurrence of the flat form was inevitable in which the stable felt confident they have got their horse back and duly obliged in betting from odds they thought were bigger than what Secret Dancer had been shown, took a chance and it paid off.

That’s my initial thoughts, of course it would be easier to say the yard were sinister in stopping the horse.
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That's a load of bunkum Luke - it had nothing to do with two very poor runs when the horse seemingly wasn't trying very hard?
 
Galileo said:
I think this is going nowhere..
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Probably right but Luke's suggestions are absolutely ludicrous Gal and he quite rightly has been taken on by other forum members.

It's like me going on a football forum and suggesting that diving doesn't take place in the game, I'd get ridiculed and rightly so.
 
Galileo said:
It would be interesting to know their mind set - what stands this case out from so many others.
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Difficult to know given that the camera angle makes it impossible to see beyond the leaders, but presumably it's primarily based upon the fact that the horse making late headway under a tender ride gave the stewards something in the way of hard evidence.

Of course, that might not be the case given the amount of similar rides that aren't flagged up. Haven't been paying as close attention to the scene as I usually do, Paul Carberry's effort at Naas on Saddler's Storm (incidentally, a very interesting runner in a handicap chase at Down Royal on St. Stephens day - the only reason I stumbled across the race) being but one of many examples.

Real Catch-22 type situation.
 
trackside528 said:
Haven't been paying as close attention to the scene as I usually do, Paul Carberry's effort at Naas on Saddler's Storm (incidentally, a very interesting runner in a handicap chase at Down Royal on St. Stephens day - the only reason I stumbled across the race) being but one of many examples.
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Job done.
 
Without sounding challenging I have looked over the ride a few times now and the horse was definitely looked after coming to the fences, horse could easily have had serious problems and for an owner its bests to get your horse home safe in which he did picking up some prize money in the process.

Nothing dodgy about that ride I’m afraid as the horse looked to find the trip all too short and picked up the best he could staying on well at the death, only 5 runs under his belt and not many go straight into learning over fences so plenty more to come especially with the feedback they got from Carberry priceless.
 
I find that a lot of Tony Martin runners go off 4/5 after they've looked like they've had serious problems. He must be such a good horseman to improve these poor injured creatures so much and he is obviously confident of his own abilities too as the cash piles in for them when they next run.

That or he's a renowned crook and everyone in racing knows it.
 
LukeWilson said:
Without sounding challenging I have looked over the ride a few times now and the horse was definitely looked after coming to the fences, horse could easily have had serious problems and for an owner its bests to get your horse home safe in which he did picking up some prize money in the process.

Nothing dodgy about that ride I’m afraid as the horse looked to find the trip all too short and picked up the best he could staying on well at the death, only 5 runs under his belt and not many go straight into learning over fences so plenty more to come especially with the feedback they got from Carberry priceless.
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Can't agree with that, LukeWilson. Just watching it again myself; tough to see given that he was out of picture whilst flashing home after the last, but Carberry's effort (or lack thereof) when the camera picked him up swinging in and then coming to two out was minimal. By the time he flew home the race was over. Warrnated a visit to the stewards room at the very least.

I'm not saying he didn't improve for the longer trip today, but I thought he got a similarly dreadful ride next time at Leopardstown (albeit not helped by a pretty bad mistake two out) when being set far too much to do by Enright.

For what it's worth I think Tony Martin is a genius.
 
Thanks Trackside,

Everyone on this forum is entiled to their opinion and you conducted yourself in a respectful and well thought manner in reply to my post. I will respect your opinion as I do others and can see why you would feel aggrieved by the ride but its paramount horses are ok at the end of the race, money aside.

Luke
 
Gearoid said:
Redhead - you are so shrewd, well done. That post would get 1.25 million replies on the Betfair forum, none of them as nice as mine.
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:lol: I don't doubt it, Gearoid.

I don't condemn the practice, small yards need to make a living and why shouldn't small owners have the privilege of keeping some information to themselves? They pay the bills and provide the sport, after all. Besides, it makes the game much more fun!

However, assuming that it never happens due to the vigilance of the authorities is rather innocent, LukeWilson, as is your assertion of such to a strongly opinionated and cynical bunch such as we.

Certainly it is less blatant than it used to be since the introduction of camera patrols, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen, just that the challenge of concealing a horse's ability/preferences is greater, but it can be - and is - done. Sorry to disillusion you.

The next time you see a coup, check the horse's record to see how it was achieved - then tell us that it doesn't happen!

If you spot a coup before it happens, fill your boots and grab the bragging rights - then tell us that it doesn't happen! :lol:
 
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