Sunline

News has been revealed to the media. She has laminitis and has only days to live.

Lets pray and hope for a miracle.
 
That's very sad news Grand Armee. I hope she won't be allowed to suffer too long
Commiserations to connections and those who care for her
She was one tough girl, let's hope her colt turns out better than the filly
 
Oh no, please not!
If you believe in the press releases
it doesn't look good for the mare.
Very very sad news!
 
I don't think she will let this one go without a fight either.

A leading Australian vet has operated on her, and cut tendons. Fingers crossed that this is the miracle needed to keep her alive.
 
Thanks for informing us, GA, and please keep us updated. Will have all fingers crossed, but is a horrible disease
 
Grand Armee said:
News has been revealed to the media. She has laminitis and has only days to live.

Lets pray and hope for a miracle.
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In which case why hasn't the poor beast been put to sleep?? Once laminitis gets to a certain stage there is nothing that can be done for the animal and the only humane thing to do is to destroy it. Keeping her alive is tantamount to cruelty in my eyes I'm afraid - smacks of the Barbaro incident I'm afraid [something I thought was handled very poorly].
 
It seems that this all happened 6 weeks ago, and the connections have been keeping hush on the story. The tendons were reportedly now cut 3 weeks ago, and her condition is improving.

Fair enough they wanted to keep it low profile, but I do think they have a right to tell the fans of her latest condition.

Also apparently she was operated on for colic earlier in the year, another a bit of news that has never been reported.
 
Which I'm afraid makes it all look even more cruel to me, GA. Why people insist on keeping suffering animals alive and subjecting them to all sorts of surgery and treatment just to make themselves happy is utterly beyond my comprehension - the animals don't know that someone is trying to help them, all they know is that they hurt.
 
Much like the War Of Attrition case SL you or I do not know the full ins and outs of the case, I am sure none of us do. So for that reason I find it hard to give a judgement one way or another on the vets without knowing all the facts and the level of discomfort the mare is going through.
 
She can't be happy and in decent pain-free health, that is for sure Gal - and for what? It's doubtful that even if she survives she can be bred from, so why are they purposely prolonging her life when the percentage call is that the mare is suffering? It all boils down to anthropomorphisation and the human selfishness in wanting to keep an animal alive, IMO.

As for the WoA case, it wasn't a case that if he was made to live he would be in a lot of pain and that the kindest course of action to take was to put him down. I'm still allowed my opinions on the course of action they took and whether I'm privy to the entire casebook or no, I still hold that no horse with a bad tendon injury (hell, any tendon injury, even if surgical procedures are carried out) should be back in work as soon as he was.

This case with the mare smacks of the Barbaro case to me which I personally thought was (no pun intended at all) utterly barbaric.
 
A very good reponse SL, I thought I was in for it!

While I agree with your point regarding Barbaro etc I am not going to assume it is a similar case. Like you say, if the horse is in significant pain or discomfort the best for all is to see her put to sleep. But if the vets advise is positive and she is responding to treatment (which she tentatively appears to be doing so) I will give them the benefit of the doubt.
 
In for it? You?! :D

I know of horses that have had incurable laminitis and the only course of action has been to put them down. It is a delbilitating disease that causes a lot of suffering and doesn't want to be confused with the pony form of laminitis that is livable with and is reasonably common in ponies. In horses it has a far more dramatic and devastating effect - then again apologies, I forget sometimes that it is overkill to tell you this, with the degree you have! That part was mainly meant for everyone else.
 
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War of Attrition will hack up in the Gold Cup and Sunline will miraculously recover and produce her first foal, who will go on to win a Melbourne Cup by 10 lengths... but Shads' general point will still stand... :p

Seriously, I'm no expert, but if a horse with laminitis is described as having "days to live" the chances of recovery would seem so slim and the chance of serious pain so high, that the prudent option would surely be to put the animal down.

I don't necessarily blame the owners for not releasing the news in a timely manner, Grand Armee; I still maintain the outpouring of public support contributed to the Barbaro case. There is no doubt the owner's hearts were in the right place (no one's questioning that), but did they let it overrule sound judgement? Very possibly so IMO.
 
It sounds desperate doesn't it? Poor thing must be in agony - now she has to suffer the pain of cut tendons as well as agonising feet! I too thought the Barbaro case was disgraceful - and said so on here - and I'm afraid this sounds very similar. Just because a horse has been a great champion, doesn't mean we have the right to prolong such suffering; surely such severe laminitis tends to recur?
 
Personally I reckon its cruel to keep her alive. But the thing that bugs me is the way it has been handled. First they say she wouldn't make it through the weekend, then they advise it was 6 weeks ago this happened, and 3 weeks ago the tendons were cut in her forelegs. Not to mention the surgery for colic, certainly something most people were not aware of.

But then again we don't know the situation other than she has laminitis, and her condition is supposedly improving.
 
I pointed out to some US racing fans that with Barbaro they were prolonging the inevitable - don't care how long he spends swimming (6 or 7 months in a pool), you won't be able to fully repair 28 broken bones in one leg.

Also have my own theories about other stuff connected to the case and tbh I don't think the surgery and recovery was entirely the owners decision.

Hope that Sunline pulls through but think they'd best do what's best for her :(
 
Headstrong is right, severe laminitis not only recurs, in horses it tends to be a condition that once set in, doesn't go away, it only gets worse. Again, it is not to be confused with the condition fat little thelwell ponies get when they eat too much grass since that can be managed effectively; the laminae tend to inflame rather than separate from the wall of the hoof so can often be controlled to an extent through diet alone since that is invariably the cause in ponies/good doers.

The type horses can get tends to be far more acute and is often incurable since it is not always caused by diet alone and often results in the laminae actually separating from the wall of the hoof - once this occurs there is no going back I'm afraid and it tends to be a shotgun job, the pedal bone in the centre of the foot will often rotate at this point which is about as bad as it can get.

Cutting the mare's tendons will not be a cure, it will be a short term attempt to bring relief to the mare by relieving the pressure exerted on the foot and pedal bone and, I would imagine, an attempt to stop the pedal bone rotating by that removal of the tendons pulling on the pedal bone to which they are attached.
 
Shadow Leader said:
Cutting the mare's tendons will not be a cure, it will be a short term attempt to bring relief to the mare by relieving the pressure exerted on the foot and pedal bone and, I would imagine, an attempt to stop the pedal bone rotating by that removal of the tendons pulling on the pedal bone to which they are attached.
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Supposing the mare survives - what would be the effects of the tendons being cut on her ability to walk, move around in comparison to a horse that hadn't had this procedure? I don't really know enough about horse anatomy but would it affect her quality of life in so much as being able to move around freely in paddock?

Sorry if that's a silly question?
 
I would imagine that the tendons (if it is indeed tendons that have been cut, it may be ligaments attached to the tendons) would heal however it would take tendons long enough to heal and they must surely still be pretty weak even afterwards, although walking around (non-ridden) shouldn't be too much of a problem, even the most serious tendon injuries can heal to a level whereby a horse can happily live sound for the rest of its life if it isn't doing much.

I initially couldn't see this tendon cutting procedure being carried out for anything other than short term relief so assumed they weren't presuming the mare would live long but on looking it up the reasoning behind the treatment is to "re-align her feet" according to a few press reports online - sounds like clutching at straws to me! I'm no vet but if the laminae have separated I can't see how any attempts to realign feet will be a cure, more like buying the mare a little bit more time and I'd have thought she'd still be fairly uncomfortable on her feet.

I'm pretty familiar with ligaments being cut to ease the pressure being exerted on tendons and they heal very well and usually completely; tendons I would have thought would be a different kettle of fish. The animal would have to be on box rest for several months afterwards, most probably either heavily bandaged or in a cast I'd would guess. Severe tendon injuries can heal surprisingly well though even if they don't stand racing so dondering around a paddock shouldn't be a problem.
 
Thanks for that although if you're correct doesn't really seem like any kind of life for her does it?
 
No, it doesnt at all and feel like SL and GA. Same with Barbaro. Was all in favour at first, but when I saw the video of him after the operation was horrified. Horses need to be able to run, and even though we all know how horrible the final desicion is - I had nightmares for ages when I had to decide about my favourite pet - its just not right to let horses suffer, and thats surely what it is in Sunlines case I am afraid.
 
In two minds regarding barbaro, yes it went on too long but I'm glad they at least tried the surgery, after all if we don't try a risk now & again how do we progress to help others in the future?
 
I can nearly see your point Aldaniti - but in the 'name of progress' how many animals should have their agony prolonged and suffering increased, since they are being treated like guinea pigs? Should any, in fact? That's completely aside from the high likelihood that any quality of life is likely to be poor also.

Bottom line for me is that it is the misguided selfishness of the owners (I say misguided since I'm sure they don't want the mare to suffer but in trying to help her that is precisely what is happening) in keeping the mare alive for themselves, rather than for her.
 
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