Ten Things I Can't Stand about commentaries !

A

Ardross

Senior Jockey
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Here are my ten ! Any others ???

1 Careering away - this idiotic phrase , introduced by the now laughable Aussie Jim drives me mad . Others have taken it up ! Lee Mackenzie for one - it does not make sense - a horse careering away is one that is out of control not a horse quickening clear .:mad:

2 A generous pace - where did this come from ? It appears to be used for a fast pace but surely a generous pace would be one that was forgiving rather than unforgiving - crap English

3 Your favourite - NO it does not belong to me- I might wish that it did but it no more belongs to me than " your next station stop" does in the now tedious railwayspeak . A very irritating Americanism. What is wrong with "The favourite" ?

4 Talking of which - Mark Shouty Johnson - if you are commentating in England - use English keep that crap for the marvellous respite we get when you are at Churchill Downs . He litters his commentaries with meaningless nonsense like " " coming under a ride " and a " stacking, packing field " and please please stop SHOUTING .

5 Pronunciation - for crying out loud some foreign names may be difficult but how about doing a bit of research but there is no excuse for the recent Cattermolisms " Architrav " for " Architrave " and Eejean for Aegean!

6 Accuracy - do not describe how a horse is being ridden if you do not reallly know or cannot judge - Authorised cantering in the Arc ( Aussie Jim ) , Menorah being ridden along in the Bula ) ( Cattermole )

7 Please keep an eye out for fallers and mistakes - Cattermole again - in that 3 mile hurdle pile up in December completely missed that the favourite Cross Kennon had been brought down . Scahill seemed to miss entirely that Mikael d was jumping poorly at Leopardstown

8 Listing - fine in the early part of a race especially to describe colours but not near the finish ! - as the commentator lists the eighth and ninth - he misses the favourite falling and the leader kicking clear off the home turn !

9 Trying to be clever - some can make clever allusions or puns on name ( Hoiles and Holt ) some cannot - so as a general rule please don't

10 Getting over excited - please no - the words the King is in his Counting House should be a salutary lesson for all



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Ardross said:
Here are my ten ! Any others ???

2 A generous pace - where did this come from ? It appears to be used for a fast pace but surely a generous pace would be one that was forgiving rather than unforgiving - crap English
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Agree with most of this.

No 2 generous pace doesn’t bother me though. I would equate generous in this context with the amount given – i.e. ample, abundant, copious. Consequently generous pace = lots of it.

To forgive and to be generous may overlap, but also have quite different literal meanings and are certainly not synonymous.
 
Count how many times thommo says HERE COMES during a when he is commentating during a meeting does my head in.
 
Johnson calling Kempton's first turn the "clubhouse turn" is enough to make me mute races until the straight there.
 
Is this not just the same as the very boring piece in Bruce Millington columnn in last Thursday's Racing Post?



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Without doubt Hoiles or Holt should be doing all the major meeting as few if any of those problems Ardross mentioned applied to those two. Shouty is painful.
 
Richard Hoiles is far and away the best commentator there is with Darren Owen not far behind.

Mark Johnson is annoying with his Americanisms but I do feel slightly sorry for him as he spends half the year in the States and so having had to use their expressions they are probably ingrained into his patois, and let's face it, the Yanks aren't the cleverest anyway so better Americanisms in English commentaries than being stoned in the States as they can't understand what he's saying! That said, it is annoying and terms like "so and so quarter-horsed the gate" are daft, as even though most of us can make an educated guess as to what he means, a lot of people can't. I do intend to ask him what the hell an "International Racing Towel" is though next time I see him......
 
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Darrell Williams's first e-mailer on ATR tonight complained of British commentaries being 'the worst'. As I've only got Dubaian, American, South African, Irish and one or two Australian commentaries to compare them to, I've no idea how we stack up against the Norwegians, Japanese, or Brazilians. Overall, what one wants is a clear reading of what is happening of significance in a race. I don't terribly like Scahill's front-to-back, front-to-back class register of names, but I would mind it less if he actually SAW the action - a faller here, an UR there. Oh, goodness me, four furlongs later, he sees XYZ getting up off the floor. No mention of how the horse is, ever. It may be that the faller was a 000-970 no-hoper, but equally it might be one of some significance to the market, particularly one's own. No matter - Dessie is nothing if democratic, and as likely to fail to see the favourite BD as a tailed-off selling plater tap-dancing in a tutu.

Before the puns, the wisecracks, and the imported jargon, I want to hear the race called as if I couldn't see it - clearly and without doubt as to who is where. Hoiles and Shouty are both guilty of bellowing incomprehensible nonsense like "behind Sozzled comes Nitpicker, who's on the outside of Bottoms Up, who's on the inside of Cracked Head, with Yo-Yo-Yo in between them, with Dumped Again on the wide outside... " WTF? But how close - what distances separate them? Who is travelling the better? Who is being hard ridden and who is cruising?

Unfortunately, race calling is becoming more about the 'personality' of the commentator than the usefulness of his commentary. American calling may be fairly boring, but you do actually know where your horse is, who is challenging, who's fading, and finally, who has actually won.
 
Have any of the contributors to this thread ever tried commentating on a race? This is coming from the same school of thought that asks - Have you ever ridden a horse?
 
On The Bridle rang me recently to do the commentary of a race down the phone to him when he couldnt get near a television. He had given me a hot tip for it and had waded in with the cash, so i was keen to give him a good reflection of how the race was unfolding...

"Theyre off, hes taking a bit of a pull on him, gonna drop him in by the looks of things.....

Well dropped in, probably in the rear of the last group.....

Dropping a couple off the back, think hes afraid of getting caught on heels.....

Biding his time, still a mile to go, i think theyre going a mad pace up front, cos our lad is is about 25lengths of them...

Ah hes getting interested now, beginning to stoke him up, closing to within a length of the last few...

Theyre stoppin in front, they went mad fast early....

Were stoppin behind....we havent gone mad fast any time.....

AH FOR F***S S*KE MAN, ******* ***** ****"

Then i think he lost coverage cos the phone went dead...
 
As I've said before, I quite like Johnson. He was a regular at Donny for some time and he used to add excitement, particularly to the jump meetings. You could argue that he's commentating principally for the benefit of those at the track and if you take that view then my opinion is that he does it very well.
 
Quite a few of us have ridden horses at various levels of competency, Gearoid! And yes, some of us have tried commentating with the mute off, if only to send ourselves into hysterics of laughter. But that's not the point - if you're an engineer, teacher, scientist, writer, ballet dancer - whatever - you're expected to be competent, especially if you're being paid for what you do. I was with Simon Holt one day when a passerby said to him, "I think you're a great commentator, Simon - the best." He smiled and said thank you, but rejoined with, "But that's my job."

That's their job, dearest, not ours. I don't raise and butcher my own cattle if I want a steak, I don't smelt iron to turn it into car frames and build my own car. And while race calling is skilful, sure, it's hardly on a par with brain surgery, rocket science, and any other cliche you can think of!

Going back to the old "have you ever ridden a horse?" argument - it doesn't stand up to logic. You don't need to be a minister to know if the government is failing, do you? Look at all of the criticisms on here of politicians, various authorities, writers, comedians, film actors/directors, footballers and their managers... come on, are you any of those? No, but everyone passes judgment on their performances every day.
 
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On The Bridle said:
I wonder does Cantoris recognize the race??
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Not when the first line included "taking a bit of a pull"....not him at all but the rest of the commentary could be accurate.

I think the most common mistake made by commentators is that they are playing to the ATR/RUK customers and not the racecourse punters. For example, telling me the first five coming out of the back straight is of bugger all use if you do not have a pair of binoculars or big screen. What you normally get is "X three lengths in front of Y, a length to W and Y clear of S & T". I would like to hear "X in front, travelling well on the bridle, three lengths in front of Y whose getting a few slaps down the shoulder and being asked to extend. The favourite W is a further length back travelling keenly on the inside of Z whose being stoked along and these four are comfortably clear of S and T who are being hard ridden". How difficult is it to tell it like it is? I often think you should be able to close your eyes and listen to a commentary and visual exactly what is happening. That makes a good commentary.
 
Just thinking it would be a nightmare if someone called their horse HERE COMES when thommo was commentating it would be HERE COMES HERE COMES.
 
Shadow Leader said:
Richard Hoiles is far and away the best commentator there is with Darren Owen not far behind.

Mark Johnson is annoying with his Americanisms but I do feel slightly sorry for him as he spends half the year in the States and so having had to use their expressions they are probably ingrained into his patois, and let's face it, the Yanks aren't the cleverest anyway so better Americanisms in English commentaries than being stoned in the States as they can't understand what he's saying! That said, it is annoying and terms like "so and so quarter-horsed the gate" are daft, as even though most of us can make an educated guess as to what he means, a lot of people can't. I do intend to ask him what the hell an "International Racing Towel" is though next time I see him......
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I heard an excellent and slightly scandalous theory (they're always the best ones) about Mark Johnson's commentaries which revolves around his love life. It does explain why he's being particularly OTT at the moment....
 
... oh come on, you little tease! Tell us more, tell us more!

Oh, God, I've now just had this mental image of him 'calling' when he's doing the dirty... no, no, don't tell me that's what he does!

"As usual, she's making a slightly tardy start, needs a bit of firm stoking, OH YES BABY! That's better, really putting it all - in - now, and they're going hammer and tongs for the big finnnnisshhhh... here he comes, no, no, she's holding off, he goes again, she's rallying gamely, they're really going for the line in tandem and it's - OOOOHEEEE! it's way-too-close-to call!"
 
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Not so much in commentaries, maybe more in post race analysis but it does crop up, "jumping from fence to fence" is a phrase I cannot get on with.
 
bloodnok said:
Not so much in commentaries, maybe more in post race analysis but it does crop up, "jumping from fence to fence" is a phrase I cannot get on with.
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Nonsense. If I'm going to back a chaser, I need to know that he's not using up precious energy jumping between fences. :ninja:
 
krizon said:
... oh come on, you little tease! Tell us more, tell us more!

Oh, God, I've now just had this mental image of him 'calling' when he's doing the dirty... no, no, don't tell me that's what he does!

"As usual, she's making a slightly tardy start, needs a bit of firm stoking, OH YES BABY! That's better, really putting it all - in - now, and they're going hammer and tongs for the big finnnnisshhhh... here he comes, no, no, she's holding off, he goes again, she's rallying gamely, they're really going for the line in tandem and it's - OOOOHEEEE! it's way-too-close-to call!"
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Not that scandalous, sadly. I was told that "when he's split up from one of his many wives", that he tends to be downbeat, and subsequently easier to listen to, but is currently...erm.....between break-ups, so is full of infuriating joie de vivre.
 
Much as I love you Mr Delargy, I do feel it's not really fair to air gossip about such things, it's always a very upsetting time for any party involved.
 
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