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The 2025 King George VI And Queen Elizabeth Stakes
- Thread starter Ian_Davies
- Start date
Slim
Rookie
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2019
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- 4,195
It's either too fast or two slow. They've yet to find the Goldilocks zone.
Ian_Davies
Conditional
I think Kalpana has run a blinder on ground plenty quick enough for her.
I'm not sure Jan Brueghel was in love with the surface either, but I don't think the tactics were right on the St Leger winner today, Continuous still in contention turning for home tells its own story about the early pace.
Barzalona is lethal - when he's on something with 7lb in hand.
Last to first off a modest pace on the best horse in the race, who is proven on the ground.
Rebels Romance short of room and would have preferred a stronger pace too, but no real excuses really as he had his ground and just isn't quite good enough for a top Group 1.
I'm not sure Jan Brueghel was in love with the surface either, but I don't think the tactics were right on the St Leger winner today, Continuous still in contention turning for home tells its own story about the early pace.
Barzalona is lethal - when he's on something with 7lb in hand.
Last to first off a modest pace on the best horse in the race, who is proven on the ground.
Rebels Romance short of room and would have preferred a stronger pace too, but no real excuses really as he had his ground and just isn't quite good enough for a top Group 1.
Desert Orchid
Senior Jockey
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Not concrete proof re JB's OR being too high but it wouldn't surprise me if 'the lads' had their money on Calandagan today. JB never looked like winning through the final mile.
On a line through Rebel's Romance you have to think the winner is touching the 130 threshold I crave in this race.
I can probably sleep a bit more soundly tonight.
Robicheaux
Apprentice
Continuous sent to Joseph for a crack at the Triumph
Robicheaux
Apprentice
Or Supreme 
Don't know why but Continuous was ridden more positively in the POW?
Desert Orchid
Senior Jockey
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My earlier idea that maybe Continuous was having his mark worked down for the Ebor seems well out. He isn't even entered. That strikes me as an opporchancity snubbed.
Robicheaux
Apprentice
Maybe a Melbourne cup. Godolphin nearly pulled it off with Ebor winner Give the slip, who went on to pacemaking duties in these sort of races
Desert Orchid
Senior Jockey
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Yes, I've long thought that horses that are campaigned not to win forget what it's like to do so and content themselves with running for the exercise.
Who was the [French?] trainer back in the day who doped his horses after a hard race so that they wouldn't remember it next time? Zilber?
Maybe that's what Continuous needs, to have his mind cleared of pacemaking duties.
(Not that Coolmore would ever think of doing anything like that.)
edgt
Senior Jockey
French trainers back in the day doped horses before and after tough races; they would dope them during a race if they could.
Apparently when F Boutin was fined after Trepan's two disqualifications in GB 1976 ( diuretic I think).
Francois Mathet shrugged his shoulders, said "les traitments" for horses in training was standard practice and lit another Gitane.
Mathet himself was nearly in hot water after Relko's 1963 Derby win if memory serves, not that I was around.
Calandagan knows how to win now so could be around for a while hopefully.
A quick Ascot needs a horse with qualities Ballydoyle don't have at the moment it seems.
Apparently when F Boutin was fined after Trepan's two disqualifications in GB 1976 ( diuretic I think).
Francois Mathet shrugged his shoulders, said "les traitments" for horses in training was standard practice and lit another Gitane.
Mathet himself was nearly in hot water after Relko's 1963 Derby win if memory serves, not that I was around.
Calandagan knows how to win now so could be around for a while hopefully.
A quick Ascot needs a horse with qualities Ballydoyle don't have at the moment it seems.
edgt
Senior Jockey
Memories of Red Rock Canyon .
Supposed to be Aiden's best Juvenile, according to racecourse chat when he ran into Teofilo on debut, he got beaten at 4/7 or worse at Goodwood a few weeks later.
His pacemaking roles earned him a rating of 115 but didn't win his maiden until Roscommon as a 5 year old .
Ian_Davies
Conditional
If Piggott had ridden Teenoso in 1984 the way Moore rode Jan Brueghel today he wouldn't have won the race - the speedier likes of Sadlers Wells, Time Charter and Darshaan would have had him on toast.
Moore - and those who instructed him - got it wrong today and spectacularly failed to maximise their chances of success.
With big prize money and bigger stud values at stake, I doubt if it had anything to do with betting.
And Calandagan can't run in the Arc because Group 1 races are supposed to be about improving the breed and he's a fecking gelding (an advantage to boot).
Connections are fortunate he was eligible to run today and in various other Group 1 races.
Ian_Davies
Conditional
I can't have Rebels Romance running to his OR of 123 today.
He had his ground, but nothing else has gone right for the old boy - pace not strong enough, got trapped on the rail, got in a scuffle with the coked-up sockless brigade after racing on Ascot High Street....ok, the last one is just a puerile rumour (started by me) but it just wasn't his day.
NH_Andy
Amateur Rider
Stud money often prevents owners from running the best horses against each other so I'm all for geldings mixing it up.
All the coolmare pair achieved was trapping RR handing it to Calandagan on a plate.
Slim
Rookie
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Once Coolmore ruin at least one horses race they'll consider it a success.
Ian_Davies
Conditional
I just think they made a mistake.
The Coronation Cup perhaps led them to believe Jan Brueghel had more tactical speed than is the case and a head start over Calandagan off a slow pace would see them home.
But Epsom Downs is a stiffer 1m4f than Ascot (as the standard times and track records attest) and it was an easier surface at Epsom too.
IMO, on a horse like that you have to do what Piggott did on Teenoso and break the race with an attritional pace from the start.
The Coronation Cup perhaps led them to believe Jan Brueghel had more tactical speed than is the case and a head start over Calandagan off a slow pace would see them home.
But Epsom Downs is a stiffer 1m4f than Ascot (as the standard times and track records attest) and it was an easier surface at Epsom too.
IMO, on a horse like that you have to do what Piggott did on Teenoso and break the race with an attritional pace from the start.
Aye,and AOB and RM wouldn't know the difference between Epso,m and Ascot??
