The Church

I thought he said it was ridiculous to believe in God. I don't remember him attacking any particular Church.
 
Originally posted by granger@May 6 2008, 09:18 PM
He was on Irish television a while back and attacked the hypocracy of the church. Cleary a very articulate man, very entertaining interview
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People who talk about the hypocrisy of the church get on my wick a bit - take the Catholic church - the media drone on about all the money in the Vatican and paedophile priests, but always fail to mention the many tens of thousands Catholic missonaries engaged in work around the globe with poor people - who pays for that???

Sorry, but I had to get that one off my chest.
 
People who talk about the hypocrisy of the church get on my wick a bit - take the Catholic church - the media drone on about all the money in the Vatican and paedophile priests, but always fail to mention the many tens of thousands Catholic missonaries engaged in work around the globe with poor people - who pays for that???
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Helping them whilst dying of AIDS contracted because they were told not to use contraception.....
 
Originally posted by clivex@May 13 2008, 08:49 AM
People who talk about the hypocrisy of the church get on my wick a bit - take the Catholic church - the media drone on about all the money in the Vatican and paedophile priests, but always fail to mention the many tens of thousands Catholic missonaries engaged in work around the globe with poor people - who pays for that???
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Helping them whilst dying of AIDS contracted because they were told not to use contraception.....
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Clive - well put. Something I feel very strongly about.

Numbersix - 'drone'???????? Please don't use such a flippant tone when you are discussing such hypocrisy and an organsation responssible for hurt and death of millions worldwide.
 
Thanks Andrew

I also cannot understand the point that because an organisation does "some good", the less wonderful aspects of its "works" should be somehow be overlooked
 
I think numbersix was pointing out that the catholic Church has done good also and that while obviously the bad should not be ignored neither should the good. The Catholic Church is an easy target through there own doing, but there are many good people doing good work in the name of that Church that get ignored and their work unmentioned.
 
Is it not the other way round though, as numbersix was stating, that because it does "some bad" the more wonderful aspects seem to be overlooked?


Or in other words, what Mr Sheik said.
 
Originally posted by Andrew Hurley+May 13 2008, 10:00 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Andrew Hurley @ May 13 2008, 10:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-clivex@May 13 2008, 08:49 AM
People who talk about the hypocrisy of the church get on my wick a bit - take the Catholic church - the media drone on about all the money in the Vatican and paedophile priests, but always fail to mention the many tens of thousands Catholic missonaries engaged in work around the globe with poor people - who pays for that???
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Helping them whilst dying of AIDS contracted because they were told not to use contraception.....
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Clive - well put. Something I feel very strongly about.

Numbersix - 'drone'???????? Please don't use such a flippant tone when you are discussing such hypocrisy and an organsation responssible for hurt and death of millions worldwide. [/b][/quote]
I wasn't being flippant - I was merely pointing out, as a couple of guys have also since pointed out, that the good done by the Catholic Church is very often overlooked in favour of sensationalist news stories.

I don't deny the child abuse scandal happened and was bad, but that doesn't mean the good they do with peoples of the third world should be undermined and ignored.

Andrew you are too guilty of unfounded sensationalism with your comment about Catholicism causing death and hurt of millions worldwide. What do you base this on?

Try going to a Catholic Church (in England - where I live) on a Sunday and see the hurt and death - or actually, see people of all races and colours joining in a union rarely seen in mainstream society. Often people of colour coming to Britain to flee from political and economic persecution find safety and welcome in the Catholic Church, believe it or not.
 
- Death: see Clive's comments. The Pope (not specifying a single one) does not believe in contraception, and this prohibits (of course they have a choice, but religion is all some of them have in life) many people in Africa from living a healthy life, not one ended early through contracting aids.
- Hurt: The amount of people abused by clergymen is astoundng. Only thing worse than this is the deception on the part of the catholic church in trying to cover this up (see Ireland past 10 years).

No amount of missionary work comes remotely close to making up for this.

What's funny is the passing of a 'plate' (basket) to put money in during church. Let no one mention this is one of the richest organisations in the world, yet they are taking money from many who can't afford it.
 
- Death: see Clive's comments. The Pope (not specifying a single one) does not believe in contraception, and this prohibits (of course they have a choice, but religion is all some of them have in life) many people in Africa from living a healthy life, not one ended early through contracting aids.
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It is the Popes duty to convey the beliefs of the Catholic church, not to change the Catholic church's teachings to fit in with modern ills and scociabilities. The Catholic Church believed contraceptives were abhorrant before the onset of Aids, so there is no reason they should be any less abhorrant afterwards. I have no real idea why the church finds sticking a bit of rubber to your willy is such an insult to God but many wise theologians got together and decided it was so, so so be it. I am sure even more wise theologians have reexamined the issue since the onset of aids in the hope of finding a loophole, it does not do the image of the church any good either to have people die because they follow the church's teachings or to simply ignore the church and make it less relevant.

The Catholic Church makes its case and proscribes (an admittedly weak) course of action to prevent aids. It could be argued that if those who followed the Churches teachings on the use of contraception took account of all the other teachings of the church, the spread of aids would have been somewhat slower (and no I'm not saying "it's there own fault they got aids"). Cherry picking the rules of the church is practiced by the vast majority.
 
Well put Melendez. There really is little point in having a debate with someone (Andrew) who's views on the Catholic religion amount to the sort of nonsense we see time and again in the gutter press.

I would ask of course if he knows how much money the Vatican spends per annum on 3rd world missions and charitable causes? I would also ask if he is aware of the fact that making donations at church are not compulsory? I often see very poor people pass the plate on without making donations and there is no shame in that. I have also often witnessed poor, destitute men and women waiting at the priest's house to be given food and invited in for human company. I also know of personal relations who fell on hard times and were given hand outs by the priest on his doorstep.

But of course none of this counts in Andrew Hurley's deliberately controversial world.
 
Of course it is always worth pointing out that the CofE is hardly celestial and the embodiment of all that is holy, is it? The CofE never has any scandals, never has done, has it? Sorry, what about the dissolution of the monasteries and the English nobility assuming all church riches for themselves?

The Catholic church is not perfect, no religion is. However to insist that it is nothing but corrupt and riddled with hypocrisy, much less suggest that the Catholic church is full of paedeophiles is far wide of the mark.
 
Sorry, what about the dissolution of the monasteries and the English nobility assuming all church riches for themselves?
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So?

i think that was in the past? wasnt it?

Quite how that counters the valid criticisms of the catholic church's policy towards AIDS in 2008 is beyond me

As it happens, i think the CofE carry themselves very well. im not a believer but , they have generally promoted an inclusiveness and long avoided open hostilty and conflict with other faiths. there is a decent enough strain of liberalism there. And they are not the only church to do so of course

They have moved on

I havent seen a monastery burnt down for weeks now

who's views on the Catholic religion amount to the sort of nonsense we see time and again in the gutter press.
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Gutter press? To discuss (and dislike) its policy on AIDS (and other social issues) Suspect you might find more of that in the liberal broadsheets...but anyway

So i take it you think the (welcome) exposure of the disgraceful covering up of so much child abuse over god knows how many years is simply muck raking (or whatever) then?

I am not anti Cathloic in any way (can think of religions that are genuinely repellent) but everyone and every church is accountable
 
Clivex, whether or not the dissolution of the monasteries happened in recent weeks or not is irrelevant - it just goes to show that the CofE church (amongst other religions - 9/11 anyone?) is not without it's slurs either.

To paint the Catholic church as being rotten to the core whilst other religions are whiter than white is not only misleading, it's disingenous, naive and, not to put too fine a point on it, bollocks.
 
SL, I have read the thread through, and I don't see at any point anyone calling the Catholic church 'rotten to the core' ( unless McCrirrick said it in the interview, in which case what the feck is anyone listening to him for anyway ), but in answer to numbersix's original objection, can I just say look at your point this way. There are tens of thousands of volunteer and charity workers around the world, not linked with religions who are doing the same work with the poor and needy. These charities don't seem to suffer the same slurs. Why do you think that may be?
 
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