The Gypsy Fraternity And The Lotto Fund

Merlin the Magician

Merlin the Magician

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MP criticised in gypsy grant row

David Davies made the comments on his own website
A row has broken out after a Conservative MP criticised a £48,000 lottery award for a project for schools on gypsy and travelling communities.
Monmouth MP David Davies has written to the Heritage Lottery Fund asking for the same amount to make a film about the "settled community".

The fund has given a grant to Hampshire Council for a project on the traditions of travelling communities.

A spokesman for the Gypsy Council said Mr Davies' comments were "distasteful".

'Raise awareness'

Mr Davies, who is Assembly Member as well as MP for Monmouth, said on his personal website that he made his comments after reading a national newspaper report about the award to Hampshire Council to fund a project on "gypsy travellers".

The Heritage Lottery Fund award of £48,800 was made to the project called "Living Album-Gypsy Heritage" which aims to produce a DVD, touring exhibition and website for schools and aims to "raise awareness...of the gypsy community and culture".

(He's) making a mockery of attempts to build bridges between gypsies and non-gypsies

Ann Bagehot, Gypsy Council

In his letter to the lottery fund, Mr Davies said: "Following the £48,000 you gave for the production of a video aimed at giving schoolchildren a greater understanding of the culture and traditions of 'gypsy travellers', I am very keen to commission an equally 'useful' and 'informative' piece of film that will serve to educate said 'gypsy travellers' on some of the ancient traditions and communal practices of another group of people, who we might called 'settled folk'.

"I use the term to describe that large group of people in Britain who opt to live their lives in houses or flats.

"I should like my film to focus on such issues as the importance which the 'settled community' place on property rights, their rigid adherence to an ancient code which they refer to as 'planning regulations', and the time honoured custom of clearing up one's rubbish.

"Should time allow we could also include a section about the cardboard circle which settled folk purchase annually from post offices and use to adorn their vehicles - known as a tax disc."

'Playing games'

A spokesman for the Gypsy Council described Mr Davies' comments as "distasteful", while the council's secretary, Ann Bagehot, said she considered them to be "just schoolboy thoughtlessness".

She added that Mr Davies was "making a mockery of attempts to build bridges between gypsies and non-gypsies".

Chris Myant, director for the Commission for Racial Equality Wales, added: "He's trying to play on people's prejudices. He's playing games which isn't really the way serious politicians should engage in public debate."

A Heritage Lottery Fund (HLF) spokesperson said it was not prejudiced in its allocation of grants.

'Much to learn'

The spokesperson said: "Of more than 16,000 projects supported by the HLF in the last 11 years, so far we have funded some 11 which focus on the heritage and history of traveller communities - often working with local organisations to bring communities together.

Elected representatives have a responsibility to engage in rational, constructive debate that does not inflame feelings unnecessarily

Conservative party spokesman

"It's a nonsense to suggest that there is any kind of prejudice against settled communities in our grant giving - we simply reflect the vast range of heritage in the UK."

Responding to the criticisms of his website article, David Davies told the BBC Wales news website: "Gypsy travellers seem to have the view they are different.

"If that's the case, then surely they have as much to learn from the settled community.

"I haven't said anything unreasonable - this highlights the double standards."

A spokesman for the Welsh Conservative Party said they wanted "everyone to have the freedom to make their own lifestyle choices".

"Most travellers lead law-abiding lives, but a small minority abuse the system and give the whole travelling community a bad name," he said.

"That said, elected representatives have a responsibility to engage in rational, constructive debate that does not inflame feelings unnecessarily."
 
I personally would endorse his thoughts and give these people an insight as to how settled law abiding people live THEIR lives!!! its about time someone spoke up about the way this lotto fund is totally misused and not given to needy causes as it was meant to do!!!................. :o
 
Then on the next page you read this who's the editor??????????? :P

Jail after high-speed lorry chase

Sally Price was in tears as she was taken from the dock
A 25-year-old woman has been jailed for 12 months for stealing a seven-tonne lorry and leading police on a high-speed chase in Cardiff.
Sally Price from Tremorfa, drove at speeds of up to 60mph for six miles, pursued by three police cars.

She eventually shed the lorry's load of cables on a roundabout before running off in Rover Way in the city.

Price, who does not have a driving licence, was sentenced at Newport Crown Court for dangerous driving and theft.

During her trial held at Cardiff Crown Court, the jury heard how she had been involved in stealing a lorry from a yard in Radyr on the outskirts of the city.

Police began to pursue the vehicle, which reached speeds of up to 60mph, causing motorists to swerve out of the way.

Her driving caused the steel cables on the back of the lorry to fall off as she attempted to turn around a roundabout.

You were then the driver of a lorry which fled from the police as they tried to stop you

Judge Christopher Llewelyn Jones

During her sentencing on Tuesday, Judge Christopher Llewelyn Jones said: "You were involved with others, I suspect members of your family but I have no proof, in the theft of a substantial amount of cables in excess of £3,000.

"In order to conduct that theft, £1,400 of damage was done to the barrier in the yard.

"I suspect you were involved with others but they have left you take the blame and that is no credit to them.

"Having been involved in the theft, you were then the driver of a lorry which fled from the police as they tried to stop you.

"During the course of the chase on a roundabout you shed the rolls from the lorry."

'Trouble reading'

The judge said that injury to others had only been avoided because there was no one else using the roundabout at the time.

"You denied the charges and the jury convicted you. You still deny those offences.

"It is plain to me that only a custodial sentence can be imposed."

The judge said that he took into account that Price has two young children and looks after her disabled brother but said: "There must be others who are able to care for your brother and children."

She was ordered to serve 12 months in prison and disqualified from driving for two years.

Price was crying as she was led from the dock.

Speaking after the hearing, a member of her family who did not want to be identified, said they are a Gypsy family who would now struggle to cope with Price in prison.

"Who is going to look after her children and her brain damaged brother now? Because she is the only one who knows what his medication is," the relative said.

"The rest of us can't do it because we have trouble reading...I don't know what we are going to do now."

These all live at a gypsy camp .......................
 
And why that makes the rest of them bad people??? Many people leave my school unable to read properly. It does not make them bad people.
 
It's racist codswallop as usual from this MP trying to make a name for himself. I don't recall Merlin posting crime reports about non gypsies of a similar nature to this. I suggest he buys a copy of a book called " Bloody Foreigners " about the history of immigration to Britain . It shows how one of the main reasons Britain became so successful is how we have benefited enormously from waves of immigration from hundreds of years ago and onwards .

Research shows that children from gypsy backgrounds are subjected to racist abuse based largely on these preconceptions . Indeed , being racist about gypsies seems to be regarded as the one remaining acceptable act of racism . Can you imagine the repulsive Mr davies - who came across as an arsehole of the first order when interviewed on Radio 4 this evening - having written such an article about people of Afro Caribbean or Asian descent .

Britain has a pretty shameful history with regard to the treatment of gypsies . In 1530 a law was passed thrwoing them out of the country . In 1554 a law was passed making it a capital offence to consort with them and a number of people were hanged for the offence six in Aylesbury in 1577 and five in Durham a few years later .

When the first Aliens Act was passed in 1905 Josiah Wedgwood MP said

" You have always had a mob of entirely uneducated people who will hunt down foreigners and you always have people who will make use of the passions of the mob in order to get their own end politically "

Nothing has changed .

If a gypsy commits a criminal offence they should be treated just like anyone else no less and no more severely .
 
If a gypsy commits a criminal offence they should be treated just like anyone else no less and no more severely.


And I agree .......................... but in the full report on this case there were 5 male accomplices who she failed to shop.....(may be they have a code of practice which encompasses this I don't know?) Obviously her sentence would then have been lessened….if they caught them all... she was the fall lass.. she took the rap for the others its one of your people who put her down not a complete stranger he was a judge you know………. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
 
Is it politically correct to make a film about gypsies and travellers so that schoolchildren see what their lives and lifestyles are really like rather than simply swallowing racist stereotypes ?

I remember a children's programme called Diddikoi when the same issue was addressed in the 1970s including scenes when gypsy children were abused at school. If it is politically correct to try and break down ignorance and prejudice then I am all for it .
 
Fine. But when anyone suggests that they try to break down their ignorances and prejudices they are labelled racist. That's the point you are missing. They need to see a similar film that faces the other way. That's what the guy is asking for.
 
DIVER - I have no issue at all with addressing racism and prejudice within minority communities it is just as important . The MP wasn't suggesting that at all . He was making cheap political points based on racist stereotyping e.g about car tax discs etc .
 
Originally posted by Ardross@Sep 7 2005, 08:36 PM
It's racist codswallop as usual from this MP trying to make a name for himself. I don't recall Merlin posting crime reports about non gypsies of a similar nature to this. I suggest he buys a copy of a book called " Bloody Foreigners " about the history of immigration to Britain . It shows how one of the main reasons Britain became so successful is how we have benefited enormously from waves of immigration from hundreds of years ago and onwards .

Research shows that children from gypsy backgrounds are subjected to racist abuse based largely on these preconceptions . Indeed , being racist about gypsies seems to be regarded as the one remaining acceptable act of racism . Can you imagine the repulsive Mr davies - who came across as an arsehole of the first order when interviewed on Radio 4 this evening - having written such an article about people of Afro Caribbean or Asian descent .

Britain has a pretty shameful history with regard to the treatment of gypsies . In 1530 a law was passed thrwoing them out of the country . In 1554 a law was passed making it a capital offence to consort with them and a number of people were hanged for the offence six in Aylesbury in 1577 and five in Durham a few years later .

When the first Aliens Act was passed in 1905 Josiah Wedgwood MP said

" You have always had a mob of entirely uneducated people who will hunt down foreigners and you always have people who will make use of the passions of the mob in order to get their own end politically "

Nothing has changed .

If a gypsy commits a criminal offence they should be treated just like anyone else no less and no more severely .
Click to expand...
Well said, Ardross.

As descendants of Irish immigrants, we endured mindless abuse from neighbours as kids. Can you imagine my horror when a 'professional' neighbour recently referred to us as 'your type' in the middle of an everyday conversation?
 
Originally posted by DIVER@Sep 8 2005, 09:16 AM
Fine. But when anyone suggests that they try to break down their ignorances and prejudices they are labelled racist. That's the point you are missing. They need to see a similar film that faces the other way. That's what the guy is asking for.
Click to expand...
And on that point alone I would agree with him ...............it can't be only one way :angry:
AND I AM FAR FROM A TORY SUPPORTER................... :angy: .
 
It's so easy to have a romanticised view of the gypsy population. James, the number of true Romanys still remaining the in the UK is tiny and probably hardly warrants an active promotion of their way of life because hardly any of us have ever or will ever come across them.

There are, however, increasing numbers of people (extremely few of them immigrants) who have seen a brilliant way to bypass the existing planning regs and/or a way of evading paying taxes of any description, either by purchasing greenfield sites and moving in or squatting on sites owned by others. These people do not deserve recognition of any kind and, sadly, they are becoming increasingly commonplace.

And the way to truly examine your own conscience on this matter is to ask yourself the following:

If you owned a few acres next to your own home, how would you react if a group of people moved their mobile homes onto your land, without your permission, and proceed to trash the land. Would you be pleased and philanthropic and allow them to remain?

Or, if the land adjacent to your property was sold to an unknown person, who then moved in a number of mobile homes and started proceedings to obtain planning permission to remain there, would you be welcoming and delighted ? After, of course, taking a considerable hit on the value of your property?

I very much doubt if any of us would be....
 
I agree Jules it really saddens me that people who fail to read the news and topical programmes then comment and try to defend people who are LAWLESS they do everything to break the law and I don't mean the REAL romany gypsies either.....

The police will not go into these camps unless in numbers they con people a gang of the so called travellers conned a now deceased neighbour of mine 90yrs of age and robbed him of £500 too, how many times do you read in the news papers that these people are involved in most things devious where monies can be made......

Its o/k to look up books and quote various things regards many years ago, but I am being a realist and quoting today's happenings and my own knowledge of these people.
They leave a lot to be desired and should be taught or brain washed into doing things on how to earn a normal living, like most? every other normal person.

Not to steal and plunder so yes the guy is correct give monies to politically correct persons to show these travellers the correct way to act and live. I think the guy has the courage of his convictions by speaking up regards this monetary award to make a film, what a load of codswallop..............

This LOTTO funding needs to be looked at as a matter of urgency I read recently that the old blind soldiers(Saint Dunstons) blinded in action defending this country of ours applied for a grant and were refused, it really stinks don't it????
 
Julie

After the Caravan Sites Act 1968 duty to provide gypsy sites was abolished guidance was issued to councils re identifying land for private sites . This has never been done, local authorities washed their hands of travellers, planning permission was routinely turned down , councils failed to even identify sites worried by NIMBYism - thus unsurprisingly unauthorised sites have sprung up .

There is no question of romanticising gypsies I can't see how my post can be read that way .If sites turn up unregulated , with inadequate facilities and cause a nuisance then that is a consequence of government policy and local authorities acting unlawfully - we should not be surprised at the consequences .

I don't condone unauthorised sites that cause a nuisance but you have to understand why they exist . The travelling communities must have somewhere to go unless banning them is proposed .

What for heavens sake is the requirement to be a true Romany - travelling communities have mixed heritage too ? The lottery grant in this case seems like a very good idea to me - if its purpose is to break down ignorance and prejudice.
 
Round my way these travelling types don't need any lottery money.
They occupied Tesco's car park for about 2 months, during which time car break ins in that car park went up by about 20 fold. The car park looked like a bomb had landed on it with rubbish strewn everywhere, and shoppers were going elsewhere to do their shopping. Their kids behaved like animals and had no respect whatsoever for the property of the local residents.
In the end I'm told Tesco's paid them a large sum of money (£27,000) to leave.
They then moved in to the golf club and extorted £3000 from them in order to leave.
I wouldn't piss on those people if they were on fire, and if that's seen as racist I don't give a f**k.
 
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