The Gypsy Fraternity And The Lotto Fund
- Thread starter Merlin the Magician
- Start date
Shadow Leader
At the Start
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That's pretty much the point though James - how many gypsies do actually get dealt with after committing offences? Very few - they disappear overnight leaving their trail of destruction behind them & their crimes with a vanished suspect. What do they contribute to the community also? They do their best to evade paying as many taxes as they can (taxes that the rest of us all have to pay to support them), David Davies was right with his comment about tax discs - the whole idea of taxing their vehicles is alien to most of them.
I agree totally with Julie - it's all well & good to have a romantic view of gypsies being treated badly, but a lot of the time this is not the case. The comments somewhere on the thread that "the behaviour of the minority tars the majority with the same brush" are comments I disagree with entirely. I have come across countless amounts of gypsies & all they have brought is trouble. Jules is right too - the majority of them are not immigrants at all.
For many years the villages around my home village have been plagued with gypsies turning up - not only do they totally trash the land they stop on but they are a crimewave all on their own. They trash people's properties & gardens, rob their houses, pick fights with the locals, mug people - and when they've wreaked as much havoc as they can they disappear overnight only to start the whole cycle again in another location. The problems in my area got so bad that the council had to put fences & gates up along anywhere you could park a vehicle & lock them - depriving people from being able to access the commons & woods of the area. In fact, before they erected fences they used enormous mounds of earth to block off all the lay-bys & tracks into and out of the commonland & woods.
I've known all the pubs in Newbury close due to the presence of gypsies as they were such bad news - whilst they were also shoplifting & mugging people. One of the shops near the bookies I was managing had a couple of gypsies come in one day & inform the woman at the counter that as she was on her own running the shop they would make sure that by the end of the week she had no stock left as they would lift the lot.
My aunt & uncle also had a load of gypsies descend upon their paddock next to their house a few years ago. The police can do very little about moving them on for a few days at least so my uncle took matters into his own hands. He told them they had an hour to get off his land or he would do something about it himself. True to form, all he received in return was abuse & they didn't make any attempt to pack up. My aunt & uncle owned a haulage business at the time so my uncle called up a few of his friends (all well built, shall we say) and along with them went into his paddock with one of his trucks & a chain. He attached the chains to the first caravan & proceeded to tow it out of the field - at which point the caravan started to come off it's wheels! The gypsies got the message pretty quickly, my uncle didn't have to tow any of the other caravans & they had disappeared within the hour.
If gypsies are so worried about the image that they are projecting they should do something about controlling the problems their communities inflict from within. Seeing that the law can't prosecute them as they up sticks & vanish, maybe their own council should make an effort to do something about it. If they can persuade their communities to be law abiding citizens then fine, they have a point. Otherwise, I have no sympathy with them whatsoever as I have seen the devestation they inflict on far too many occasions to feel anything but anger towards them.
It's all very well preaching tolerance, James and quoting the existing law always sounds great but it doesn't reflect reality at times.
Tolerance is a two-way street - if there were countless examples of 'Travellers' arriving at a run-down, brownfield wreck of site, which they then proceeded to improve and tidy up, plus registering directly to pay whatever local taxes are in force, then none of us would be justified in turning them away.
But the fact is this isn't the norm - too many of us have direct experiences of fields being wrecked, property stolen, threats made about barns being burnt (and worse) to be able to be totally dispassionate and objective.
And I am always puzzled at why, if they don't refer to themselves as 'gypsies' but rather 'travellers' do they then want to purchase or 'rent' what amounts to permanent sites? Surely that rather negates the description.
While there aren't enough Council run sites (and I agree this was badly managed), it is also fact that many of those that are in existence are in appalling condition, with rubbish overflowing everywhere - which hardly encourages Councils to want to make more land available for the same treatment, does it?
It's pretty impossible to deny that many so-called gyspies embrace this lifestyle precisely because they don't wish to subscribe to the conventions that the rest of us do - ie paying your Council Tax, Income Tax, Road Tax and Insurance/MOTs because they wish to be 'Free' . Which is fine for them but Council Sites for Caravans, schools, hospitals and state pensions come courtesy of the rest of us who do contribute and it isn't surprising that many become very resentful when they see the sites that are in existence being abused or have direct experience of problems with their land being taken over.
Tolerance is a two-way street - if there were countless examples of 'Travellers' arriving at a run-down, brownfield wreck of site, which they then proceeded to improve and tidy up, plus registering directly to pay whatever local taxes are in force, then none of us would be justified in turning them away.
But the fact is this isn't the norm - too many of us have direct experiences of fields being wrecked, property stolen, threats made about barns being burnt (and worse) to be able to be totally dispassionate and objective.
And I am always puzzled at why, if they don't refer to themselves as 'gypsies' but rather 'travellers' do they then want to purchase or 'rent' what amounts to permanent sites? Surely that rather negates the description.
While there aren't enough Council run sites (and I agree this was badly managed), it is also fact that many of those that are in existence are in appalling condition, with rubbish overflowing everywhere - which hardly encourages Councils to want to make more land available for the same treatment, does it?
It's pretty impossible to deny that many so-called gyspies embrace this lifestyle precisely because they don't wish to subscribe to the conventions that the rest of us do - ie paying your Council Tax, Income Tax, Road Tax and Insurance/MOTs because they wish to be 'Free' . Which is fine for them but Council Sites for Caravans, schools, hospitals and state pensions come courtesy of the rest of us who do contribute and it isn't surprising that many become very resentful when they see the sites that are in existence being abused or have direct experience of problems with their land being taken over.
Merlin the Magician
At the Start
Oh how I agree send them all on a boat trip to NEW SOUTH WALES!!! :angy:
These people are as I stated are a law unto themselves and I agree with S/L and Jules with regards their evaluations of these people and TED I bet there are a lot of people of the very same view/opinion as you posted too all over the country not just in your neck of the woods either..
We had gypsies move into a few houses here after 4 months they moved out they said it was too rough for them !!
welcome to the BRONX..... 
You stand outside the post office near where I live and see them arrive in their TARMAC wagons and collect their dole monies not a few shillings either? but a few hundred pounds and having never contributed to any form of taxation or insurance funds..
A friend of mine was at the dole office(a few years back now) and in come this gypsy family with 5 kids 2 of their own and 3 others borrowed for the day from the other travelers off the site, to go and get their monies and show the authorities they had 5 kids....
The female so called mother (who's surname was Price) kept saying to the younger one... what's yer ferking name... the child said Sam Price well don't yer ferking forget it when the man asks you yer ferking name yer tell him.... five minutes go by as they had taken a ticket and were awaiting their turn and the woman ask the youngster again "whets yer ferking name" the little kid said Sam.. she said Sam what ? Sam Cofee!! was the reply(her real name) the woman said yer ferking bastard idiot its ferking Sam Price... now don't yer ferking forgot it, she did the same with the elder two as well who were just a little bit more sensible, SO SHE CLAIMED FOR HERSELF HER HUSBAND??AND AS HAVING 5 KIDS AS WELL.....
This story when told to me was really funny I chuckled for a few days after thinking about this, as it was a true story.....
But these people do this on a regular basis there's me and you towing the line having paid our taxes and national insurance only for these people to milk it all away(sorry Jules for the pun) but to get this fraud into prospective which is huge would take this government years so every one condems the so called I.D cards proposed by this government but I feel sure it will go a long way into stopping this sort of major fraud then happening?......
P.S I have actually heard of them then going to Newport and making another claim and getting paid that claim as well.......
We'll send them all to Ardross being that he thinks so much of them and see how he copes with them and their antics??????????TED as described them to a tee so to speak with regards the way they live....
A
Ardross
Guest
I fear that the postings on this thread make my point about the one remaining acceptable act of racism . Individual personal experiences are used to justify labelling every member of a whole community .
Fine , if you have had a bad experience with a group of travellers then report them , take action against them , get the police to do so - but don't label them all as the same .
Fine , if you have had a bad experience with a group of travellers then report them , take action against them , get the police to do so - but don't label them all as the same .
I also agree with Songsheet and SL. The area in which I work is often occupied by 'travellers'. When they do move on there's generally piles of rubbish and old clothes left behind for someone else to clean up. There are at least 2 official travellers sites within a 10 mile radius which I might add are clean and well kept, yet they seem unable to use these, preferring instead to cut their way through fences to avoid the already locked gates of surrounding fields and leave behind a trail of damage, destruction and mess.
I don't see why every time a certain type of person is criticized for their behaviour, it's 'racism', James. That really just devalues the horrors of real racism wherever it exists (and it's far, far from just white vs black). We are in danger of being muzzled by PC people like you, who haul out the 'racist' card every time there's a debate on certain sections of humankind. In this particular case, 'travellers' DO cause enormous nuisance, they DO leave behind all their detritus and filth for non-travellers to pick up, they DON'T contribute a tap to the local communities in which they base themselves, they DON'T pay taxes but they still expect to enjoy the benefits of a Welfare State as and when it suits them.
They are not another race - they're Irish, or they're British, or they're Rom, but, most of all, they're human. We should feel free to criticize the behaviour of other humans when their actions are derogatory to the environment, to the community, or to the country, in which they choose to live.
Like Julie, I'm not sure I get 'travellers' who want to settle. Is this so that they can enjoy 'travelling' status and remain exempt from paying Council Taxes, utility bills, etc.? Yes, Councils should get off their collective arses and start demanding funding for suitable sites, and to hell with nimbyism. The 'travellers', though, should have to pay a daily rate to stay on the sites, to cover all of the utilities that they need to keep healthy - water and electricity, and the cost of rubbish collections. There should be a permanent onsite manager to prevent their occasional habit of tipping their concrete, rubble, soiled nappies, shit, dead dogs and occasional dying pony, too - all of which will be funded by the travelling community itself, not out of the reviled non-travellers' pockets.
They are not another race - they're Irish, or they're British, or they're Rom, but, most of all, they're human. We should feel free to criticize the behaviour of other humans when their actions are derogatory to the environment, to the community, or to the country, in which they choose to live.
Like Julie, I'm not sure I get 'travellers' who want to settle. Is this so that they can enjoy 'travelling' status and remain exempt from paying Council Taxes, utility bills, etc.? Yes, Councils should get off their collective arses and start demanding funding for suitable sites, and to hell with nimbyism. The 'travellers', though, should have to pay a daily rate to stay on the sites, to cover all of the utilities that they need to keep healthy - water and electricity, and the cost of rubbish collections. There should be a permanent onsite manager to prevent their occasional habit of tipping their concrete, rubble, soiled nappies, shit, dead dogs and occasional dying pony, too - all of which will be funded by the travelling community itself, not out of the reviled non-travellers' pockets.
A
Ardross
Guest
They - is the word I object to .
Merlin the Magician
At the Start
I wrote this an hour ago but did not post it...........its on a par with what your saying Jon......................
Well if you evaluate the minuses to the pluses you'll equate the correct answer it seems that the majority who contributed to this post seem to see it in a different way to yourself I can only quote from my experiences having a TRAVELLERS CAMP 500YDS from where I live and they been there 20yrs... :angy: plus a further overspill who will set up home were they need too and cause all kinds of problems the opening story regards the theft of the lorry etc they came from this very site…..
Why is it on here that when you quote a race of people doing lawless things you are deemed a racist??? what a load of bollocks.....surely your missing the point…a similar thing escalated with myself and the late Alan pointing out black people and the gun law and them breaking it by carrying guns and those two young ladies getting killed in Brum we were stereotyped as being racist… because we pointed out the law breaking going on and not condoning it!! somebody needs to speak up with these sort of things going on not sweep it under the carpet…….
Just like the gypsies/travellers who break the law! Etc etc its akin to these people everyone knows it including the police I could write a book on the things they get up to here with regards lawless things…….robberies, divisionary robberies horses running around the streets they don’t give a toss for anyone……...
Drive past their site you’ll occasionally??? get stoned, they nick cars take the engines/gearboxes out to sell on, then set fire to the shells and when the fire service attends they stone the firemen……or push the cars onto the main road, then someone calls the police the police then get the car or van taken away minus its gearbox and or engine they steal to order as well, full stop.
The police won’t dare go into the camp unless in their droves and have been known to raid the site with a large posse of men and recover all sorts of stolen property, compressors power rollers rolls of cable etc etc …..how can you call this as being racism?.....
How can this be deemed as being racist when someone is pointing out that these people are lawless does it mean that lawyers barristers can get well paid for changing the charges into racisms rather than the charges of stealing robbery etc or do they the gypsies/travellers now use the race card as an excuse for their actions and say they are being persecuted because they are gypsies…… as stated what a load of bollocks …….
Well if you evaluate the minuses to the pluses you'll equate the correct answer it seems that the majority who contributed to this post seem to see it in a different way to yourself I can only quote from my experiences having a TRAVELLERS CAMP 500YDS from where I live and they been there 20yrs... :angy: plus a further overspill who will set up home were they need too and cause all kinds of problems the opening story regards the theft of the lorry etc they came from this very site…..
Why is it on here that when you quote a race of people doing lawless things you are deemed a racist??? what a load of bollocks.....surely your missing the point…a similar thing escalated with myself and the late Alan pointing out black people and the gun law and them breaking it by carrying guns and those two young ladies getting killed in Brum we were stereotyped as being racist… because we pointed out the law breaking going on and not condoning it!! somebody needs to speak up with these sort of things going on not sweep it under the carpet…….
Just like the gypsies/travellers who break the law! Etc etc its akin to these people everyone knows it including the police I could write a book on the things they get up to here with regards lawless things…….robberies, divisionary robberies horses running around the streets they don’t give a toss for anyone……...
Drive past their site you’ll occasionally??? get stoned, they nick cars take the engines/gearboxes out to sell on, then set fire to the shells and when the fire service attends they stone the firemen……or push the cars onto the main road, then someone calls the police the police then get the car or van taken away minus its gearbox and or engine they steal to order as well, full stop.
The police won’t dare go into the camp unless in their droves and have been known to raid the site with a large posse of men and recover all sorts of stolen property, compressors power rollers rolls of cable etc etc …..how can you call this as being racism?.....
How can this be deemed as being racist when someone is pointing out that these people are lawless does it mean that lawyers barristers can get well paid for changing the charges into racisms rather than the charges of stealing robbery etc or do they the gypsies/travellers now use the race card as an excuse for their actions and say they are being persecuted because they are gypsies…… as stated what a load of bollocks …….
James, you've got to agree that using the word 'travellers' over and over and over without eventually resorting to 'they', which can only be construed as an identifier for 'travellers' would be unutterably twee and coy. It's not like saying 'those people' when referring to homosexuals, the mentally ill, the disabled, etc. EVENTUALLY, 'they' just goes to identify the people being discussed, whether it's 'they are the most unbearable' or 'they are the most wonderful' people in the world!
We're not all lawyers on here, we don't address a court every day of our working lives trying to use the most objective, if not dry and oblique, terms, devoid of inferences, references, or accidental innuendoes.
We're not all lawyers on here, we don't address a court every day of our working lives trying to use the most objective, if not dry and oblique, terms, devoid of inferences, references, or accidental innuendoes.
BrianH
At the Start
:lol:
But James, you refer to those of us who eat meat as 'they', I believe!!
Several times on here, when I've been defending the Farming community, I believe you and several on here have referred to us as 'they'... and I don't remember accusing you of being racist!
BrianH
At the Start
All farmers should be rounded up and sent to a compound in Bootle
A
Ardross
Guest
With only Quorn and soya milk to eat .
A
Ardross
Guest
Shadow Leader
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Not to mention "THEY" who carry out barbaric atrocities by going hunting.....
h34r: No, seriously, I do get your point Ardross, BUT it is very hard not to generalise when the experiences I have had of gypsies & travellers has always been bad. I don't mean on the odd occasion I've come across them either - I mean coming across them at least 2/3 times a year for at least 15 years that I can remember! There's a pretty large sample there, and not once have I had a positive experience involving travellers. I'm sorry if you disagree but once you've experienced the threat of having them camping a mile down the road from your house, initimidating & threatening, even attacking people, looting & ransacking gardens & outbuildings, burgling houses and then leaving behind a godawful mess when they leave you may look at it a little differently.
If the Travelling Community want to be seen in a more positive light then their council really should attmept to rectify that image by changing things from within. They should preach zero tolerance for those members of their community who break the law, loot, ransack & leave a mess behind. If they can prove they can be peaceful, tidy & law abiding I have no problem whatsoever with gypsies/travellers and if they are willing to contribute to the local council costs (ie pay local council taxes, etc) then I have no problem with sites being set up for them. It is a two-way street though and effort needs to be put in from both sides.
Love Everlasting
At the Start
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- 358
My mum works in a really pretty village which every May sees an influx of gypsies take over on the way up to Appleby, it used to be for a couple of days but now they seem to be around for weeks during which time the locals have to put up with abuse and intimidation, many of the kids aren’t allowed out to play on the village green after school.
They have now been banned from camping out on the green, due to the mess that is left behind, rubbish and human and animal excrement. But it doesn’t stop them now they park up their caravans and dingle vans down the lanes and in the church car park for weeks which makes them no go areas for locals.
This year one of my girl friends was punched in the face by a man gypsy in one of the village pubs, of course all of his mates made sure they had seen it, even though they weren’t there at the time and in the end she had to drop the charges as there was no evidence (the people who had seen it were threatened).
This is not to mention how cruel they are to the animals, indiscriminate breeding of the horses which are then tethered up on the road, with no water or shelter. Ridden in a gallop along tarmac roads as yearlings/2yos, and getting whacked around the head with planks of wood.
They have now been banned from camping out on the green, due to the mess that is left behind, rubbish and human and animal excrement. But it doesn’t stop them now they park up their caravans and dingle vans down the lanes and in the church car park for weeks which makes them no go areas for locals.
This year one of my girl friends was punched in the face by a man gypsy in one of the village pubs, of course all of his mates made sure they had seen it, even though they weren’t there at the time and in the end she had to drop the charges as there was no evidence (the people who had seen it were threatened).
This is not to mention how cruel they are to the animals, indiscriminate breeding of the horses which are then tethered up on the road, with no water or shelter. Ridden in a gallop along tarmac roads as yearlings/2yos, and getting whacked around the head with planks of wood.
Getting back to where this 'debate' started, would it be that big of an administrative burden to put a tick box at the bottom of the lotto ticket so that people who actually participate can have some say as to where the good causes money goes? With optical character readers and sophisticated scanning equipment nowadays it should be fairly easy to obtain the information. Oh, I forgot, it might remove the need for that Heritage Committe that currently decides these things. Poor souls would have nothing to do.
I wonder how many settlers would tick the 'help fund the education of the travellers' box?
I wonder how many settlers would tick the 'help fund the education of the travellers' box?
Merlin the Magician
At the Start
BOBBYJOE ITS A UTILISED OFFICE for anything relevant to health/ sickness claims as well!!!(It's where one would get interviewed in relation to a claim etc etc) so I did not post it thinking you might just pick that fact up??? its commonly known as the Dole office building...................
DIVER
yes I agree with your synopsis and it's need is a matter of urgency to come into force, and stop monies being wasted on wasters.............and going to GOOD CAUSES as its supposed too and is advertised as such .............
LOVEVERLASTING
a YOUNG HORSE WAS FOUND IN A BUILDERS SKIP the other day too.. people have petitions regards the TRAVELLERS(but nothing is ever done?) its given a lot of publicity by the local rag too, with these horses running amok around the streets,
eating all the GARDEN plants etc but NEVER any prosecutions if it was you or me we would be charged with cruelty but not these people or they!!!............