The Irish Budget and Betting Tax

icebreaker

icebreaker

At the Start
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Jun 12, 2005
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'Morning.

In the course of Tuesday's Budget speech, Michael Noonan announced that he will move a bill to impose a 1% betting duty on online and telephone bookmakers. And a 15% tax on the income derived by Betting Exchanges from commission charges.

There are two aspects of this of which I am unsure, and I would be grateful for any clarification from someone more informed than I. :
1) Under the proposed bill, is it expected that the companies ( bookmakers and exchanges) are to pass on the cost to customers as an addendum to the stake money, or is it the intention that they -- the companies -- "suck it" and pay the duty from their own gross profits?
2) Does the Irish government and its agencies have the capability in practical and legal terms to enforce compliance in this by betting companies that are not based in the country?
 
Soary Stars said:
Answer to 1: intention of anyone at all - the companies will simply pass it on.
Why wouldn't they?
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No way will the charge be passed on- betting tax is a thing of the past and no punter wants to be paying it -even at 1 per cent.
None of the major companies will charge the 1 per cent.
 
We'll see.
Perhaps not overtly, but the bookies are not going to be 'nice' and swallow it - they don't do that stuff!
 
But I think bricks-and-mortar bookmakers on the main street are at present liable for a 0.9% tax which they did not pass on to the customer ?

To be honest, I'm more concerned with the forthcoming 15% tax on Exchange commission profits. If this is to be passed on to customers it must spell the end of any profitibility that currently exists in trading, arbing or hedging. Paying a tax on every trade (maybe a dozen backs and lays on a single race) is a bonechilling prospect.
 
The 15% is to be paid by the exchanges on their own gross profits. It is not being imposed on customers and should have no impact on their use of exchanges.
 
As far as you know from the up-front numbers, that is .... what about the overall deal?
I mean their cost base.
 
More importantly (!!) sounds like prizemoney will be pretty much unaffected next year which is a positive. Sounds like they cut a couple of percent but compared to prior year cuts, that would be a result.
 
A Bill was published a few days ago to implement the proposed 1% levy on bets struck in Ireland by online bookmakers and the 15% levy on betting exchange gross profits. The Bill will also oblige bookmakers taking bets from customers in Ireland to have a licence.

I used to have doubts about the practicality of such proposals but since then I have experienced the Belgian government blocking access to each of my betting accounts to the point where only one or two of them remain operational. They have decided that only betting operators with a physical presence in Belgium can get licences and internet service providers have been instructed to bar all the others. I presume they will lose in the European Court of Justice when the challenge to this high handed policy is finally heard.

The situation in Italy is even worse. Last week I couldn't even access attheraces to watch a race replay.
 
Grey said:
A Bill was published a few days ago to implement the proposed 1% levy on bets struck in Ireland by online bookmakers and the 15% levy on betting exchange gross profits. The Bill will also oblige bookmakers taking bets from customers in Ireland to have a licence.

I used to have doubts about the practicality of such proposals but since then I have experienced the Belgian government blocking access to each of my betting accounts to the point where only one or two of them remain operational. They have decided that only betting operators with a physical presence in Belgium can get licences and internet service providers have been instructed to bar all the others. I presume they will lose in the European Court of Justice when the challenge to this high handed policy is finally heard.

The situation in Italy is even worse. Last week I couldn't even access attheraces to watch a race replay.
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I will lay you 11/10 it won't work.

Hold on, am I allowed to do that?
 
Bar, why don't you think it will work? I don't see the major firms being prepared to do anything illegal. If they want to get access to the likes of Belgium and Italy they will have to prove that they are behaving correctly elsewhere.


Aragorn said:
Isn't the ATR thing a rights issue Grey? Not sure that is in anyway related.
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I don't know, to tell you the truth. Last July the Racing Post site was blocked as well, but not this year. I have the impression they arbitrarily bar any sites they suspect to be gambling related and wait for them to raise an objection, in a sort of shoot first ask questions later approach.

Slim before he goes to bed?:blink:
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:lol:
 
Grey said:
since then I have experienced the Belgian government blocking access to each of my betting accounts to the point where only one or two of them remain operational.
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Grey, have you considered using a U.K.-based proxy server to wager on those of your accounts blocked by the Belgian government firewall?
I don't know if such a mechanism is feasible or practical; I ask because I wonder if we in Ireland could also use anonymous masking proxies to continue our betting activities with non Irish-licensed bookmakers when this dratted Bill is implemented.
 
icebreaker said:
Grey, have you considered using a U.K.-based proxy server to wager on those of your accounts blocked by the Belgian government firewall?
I don't know if such a mechanism is feasible or practical; I ask because I wonder if we in Ireland could also use anonymous masking proxies to continue our betting activities with non Irish-licensed bookmakers when this dratted Bill is implemented.
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I haven't, icebreaker, and I don't know if it would work or not. For the time being Betfair have provided an alternative dot eu address which allows Belgian punters to keep betting with them. Don't ask me why the Belgian government haven't blocked this too.

I also doubt Irish punters are going to face the same problem, because for the sake of 1% I think respectable betting operators will come into line and obtain an Irish licence.
 
LUKE said:
I would be fairly sure that slot machines are on the way.
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I hope you are wrong, the situation in the UK where half of high street bookmaker revenue comes from slot machines, and betting shops are proliferating in the poorest parts of towns and cities, is not something I would like to see in Ireland.

Dublin city centre in the 1980s was dominated by slot machine parlours. There were around a dozen of them between College Green and Parnell Square and a similar number on the side streets. They were finally done away with by people power. Other local authorities followed, with the exception of one or two resorts such as Bundoran.

On the other hand the quiet reaction of bookmakers to the Bill suggests you may be right.
 
A friend of mine -a man who is respected in Ireland.England and America due to professional abilities-was addicted to poker machines in his teenage years.
I would hate to see these machines get a hold in the country-for all the talk about freedom of choice they have nothing positive to contribute to the country and will bring untold misery.
 
You need to realise, Bar, that since the Tour de France your word here is taken with the utmost seriousness.
 
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