The John Smith's Cup

I've now done the race in full and I'm coming round to the idea that Intellogent just wins. (Won't stop me backing a few!)
 
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Outsider said:
JEWEL IN MY CROWN 40/1 as come up in my alerts for this race.

Opinions welcome.

Dont think it will get in unless it wins in between.
Click to expand...

I just had a proper look at the race and I thought someone mentioned this horse haha. She's a lovely profile I think. She gets my vote!
 
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Just checked the market. She's fair shortened up in the last 12 hours!

She's probably now around her true price so those of us on at 40s and 50s have every right to feel good. I'm still not convinced she's the winner, though. I like proper class horses in this race.

My stuff, written last night:

[TABLE="width: 687"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TD]Horse
[/TD]
[TD]Weight
[/TD]
[TD]Trainer
[/TD]
[TD]Jockey
[/TD]
[TD]MON
121+
[/TD]
[TD]Notes
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Intellogent
[/TD]
[TD]9-10
[/TD]
[TD]Jane C-Hyam
[/TD]
[TD]Adam Kirby
[/TD]
[TD]124
[/TD]
[TD]+t?
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Marie's Diamond
[/TD]
[TD]9-5
[/TD]
[TD]Roger Fell
[/TD]
[TD]Jason Hart
[/TD]
[TD]120
[/TD]
[TD]122f y
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Mahrajaan
[/TD]
[TD]9-2
[/TD]
[TD]W Haggas
[/TD]
[TD]Dane O'Neill
[/TD]
[TD]120
[/TD]
[TD]p
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Spirit Dancer
[/TD]
[TD]8-11
[/TD]
[TD]Richard Fahey
[/TD]
[TD]Oisin Orr
[/TD]
[TD]120
[/TD]
[TD]p
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Greatgadian
[/TD]
[TD]9-7
[/TD]
[TD]Roger Varian
[/TD]
[TD]Andrea Atzeni
[/TD]
[TD]119
[/TD]
[TD]+p AC
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Brilliant Light
[/TD]
[TD]9-1
[/TD]
[TD]S bin Suroor
[/TD]
[TD]D Tudhope
[/TD]
[TD]119
[/TD]
[TD]+p
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Caradoc
[/TD]
[TD]9-1
[/TD]
[TD]Ed Walker
[/TD]
[TD]Ross Coakley
[/TD]
[TD]119
[/TD]
[TD]+?
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] What's The Story
[/TD]
[TD]8-13
[/TD]
[TD]Keith Dalgleish
[/TD]
[TD]Billy Garritty
[/TD]
[TD]119
[/TD]
[TD](130e)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Jewel In My Crown
[/TD]
[TD]8-10 5ex
[/TD]
[TD]Rae Guest
[/TD]
[TD]C Shepherd
[/TD]
[TD]119
[/TD]
[TD]p
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Just Fine
[/TD]
[TD]9-2
[/TD]
[TD]Michael Stoute
[/TD]
[TD]R Kingscote
[/TD]
[TD]118
[/TD]
[TD]+p
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] La Trinidad
[/TD]
[TD]8-11
[/TD]
[TD]Roger Fell
[/TD]
[TD]Sean Davis
[/TD]
[TD]118
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Good Birthday
[/TD]
[TD]8-11
[/TD]
[TD]A Balding
[/TD]
[TD]William Cox 3
[/TD]
[TD]118
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Rogue Bear
[/TD]
[TD]8-10
[/TD]
[TD]Tom Clover
[/TD]
[TD]S Donohoe
[/TD]
[TD]118
[/TD]
[TD]p +?
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Chichester
[/TD]
[TD]9-8
[/TD]
[TD]Keith Dalgleish
[/TD]
[TD]C Rodriguez
[/TD]
[TD]117
[/TD]
[TD]p
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Forest Falcon
[/TD]
[TD]9-1
[/TD]
[TD]C&M Johnston
[/TD]
[TD]F Norton
[/TD]
[TD]117
[/TD]
[TD]p +?
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Anmaat
[/TD]
[TD]9-8
[/TD]
[TD]Owen Burrows
[/TD]
[TD]Kevin Stott
[/TD]
[TD]116
[/TD]
[TD]+p
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Achelois
[/TD]
[TD]9-3
[/TD]
[TD]A Balding
[/TD]
[TD]H Davies 5
[/TD]
[TD]116
[/TD]
[TD]p +?
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Baryshnikov
[/TD]
[TD]8-13
[/TD]
[TD]D&N Barron
[/TD]
[TD]L Edmunds
[/TD]
[TD]116
[/TD]
[TD]p?
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Love Is Golden
[/TD]
[TD]8-5
[/TD]
[TD]C&M Johnston
[/TD]
[TD]F Norton
[/TD]
[TD]116
[/TD]
[TD]119?
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Cockalorum
[/TD]
[TD]8-13
[/TD]
[TD]Roger Fell
[/TD]
[TD]Rowan Scott
[/TD]
[TD]115
[/TD]
[TD](124)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] First View
[/TD]
[TD]8-8 5ex
[/TD]
[TD]S bin Suroor
[/TD]
[TD]S Cherchi 3
[/TD]
[TD]115
[/TD]
[TD]+ +t?
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] The City's Phantom
[/TD]
[TD]8-11
[/TD]
[TD]R Spencer
[/TD]
[TD]S De Sousa
[/TD]
[TD]114
[/TD]
[TD]+
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Certain Lad
[/TD]
[TD]9-12
[/TD]
[TD]Mick Channon
[/TD]
[TD]G Bass 5
[/TD]
[TD]?
[/TD]
[TD][119]
[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]

Intellogent is top-rated on his excellent run in the Hunt Cup and it’s entirely possible he’ll be better at this trip since he was only beaten a length in the French Derby back in the day. It looks like the trainer has got him back to form and he is probably the one to beat. The form book is also suggesting First View (20/1) might be better stepped up to this kind of trip. He had been 6/4 favourite for the UAE 2000 Guineas a couple of years ago and might now just be coming good. They probably didn’t expect him to make the cut here and I’d had him in mind for the Cambridgeshire. Stablemate Brilliant Light (12/1) also commands respect but then they all do. I have to back Spirit Dancer (25/1). As soon as I realised he wasn’t trying first time up I reckoned this was the target. I’m on Jewel In My Crown at 50s and am happy with that. I’m also on Caradoc at 25s. I’ll probably settle for this group against the field but wouldn’t necessarily expect to have backed the winner. It’s that kind of race.
 
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I have 5 alerts in this race.
INTELLOGENT
JEWEL in my CROWN
BRILLIANT LIGHT
ROGUE BEAR
LA TRINIDAD
 
Intellogent a massive stamina question no? Yes he got 10f in slowly run French races but not sure that is cast iron proof.
 
Dosage is screaming 10-12f:

INTELLOGENT
ped_i.gif
ped_p.gif
(IRE) ch. G, 2015 {4-r} DP = 2-2-10-6-0 (20) DI = 0.82 CD = 0.00
 
From Post #3:

chaumi said:
I glanced at the list of runners yesterday to see if Faylaq was an entry. It's not, but Cockalorum is. There's a little evidence (as you already alluded to I think, DO) they may have been trying to get the mark down to have another go at this. 33s across the board. I'd have wanted 40-1 or higher at this stage, really, given it's going to be tough to make all for sure.

Marie's Diamond looks very interesting to me. 33-1 most, 50 PP and BF.

Some of the Meydan winter form over a mile and a quarter reads well, and I like the way MD didn't cave when the leaders went away in the recent mile listed race, and seemed to be closing again at the finish (or at a minimum keeping going strongly enough without folding). Suggested that over an extra 2f it could have been a different winner. We know that MD can handle strongly run races.

And an interesting note...both Cockalorum and Marie's are with Roger Fell (MD left Mark Johnston and Middleham Park prior to the Meydan efforts). So, we know Roger can go close in the Magnet with a 6 year old, and you'd have to say that on paper MD would appear to be a class higher than the Cockster??


I've gone for the double for now with Island B in the Plate. I didn't think he would be able to handle the younger ones in the Copper Horse over 1m6f. I think he ran as well as could be expected. I'd say they clearly had the Plate in mind since coming back from Dubai (and actually probably since last June, when he lost a shoe and still finished an admirable 4th).

But I don't know what was going on in their heads last year. Look at the Ascot 2 miler two summers ago. The quote after the race was along the lines of 'perfect ride, that's the way he wants it, turned off in last till storming home over the last two'......so why tf did Dawson go off in front in the plate?? I was gutted, and especially so since the ultimate winner came from stone last.

But, having said that, it was still an impressive run and he's proved since that going off in front isn't the end of the game. There's obviously a big chance he left the race behind last year and that was the big chance. It's going to be interesting to see whether they try to go from the front again or anchor out the back.
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As I said at the time, Cockalorum was on my radar but I hadn't backed it. I have now, at 50s, 6 places.

I also said at the time that I questioned Marie's Diamond's stamina but snce I used dosage to counter Euro's concerns about INtellogent I thought I'd better do likewise with MD:

MARIE'S DIAMOND
ped_i.gif
(IRE) br. C, 2016 {13-c} DP = 1-0-14-3-0 (18) DI = 0.80 CD = -0.06

That would also suggest no issues so I've taken 66/1.

The price would be all wrong if he does stay but he'd still be vulnerable to improvers.
 
I must have spent a half-hour the other night checking out Anmaat because I'm a big fan of Burrows and eventually concluded the jockey booking was a negative and that the Cambridgeshire again was probably the target. The TV team also said beforehand that he'd improve for the run yet the money kept coming for him.

Brilliant training performance but, like the Bunbury Cup, it was an unsatisfactory race on several levels.

I was on the third, fourth and fifth (and a couple more were right on their heels) but will have lost plenty on the race.

Hope some shroodies kept the faith with the winner.

Looks like Intellogent stayed but Marie's Diamond clearly didn't. I also need to see the replay a few times in case Intellogent was maybe a wee bit unlucky in running.
 
I'm not big on jockey bookings but this was a strange one. He had never ridden for Burrows before snd let's be honest it's not like he's any better than a very average jockey.
 
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Slim said:
I'm not big on jockey bookings but this was a strange one. He had never ridden for Burrows before snd let's be honest it's not like he's any better than a very average jockey.
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And his record at York wasn't up to much either. More than anything, that's what put me off.
 
There's always strange bookings on "Super Saturday" but I couldn't get my head round that one.

If Stott has an agent who got him that ride he should pay him a bonus.
 
Desert Orchid said:
There's always strange bookings on "Super Saturday" but I couldn't get my head round that one.

If Stott has an agent who got him that ride he should pay him a bonus.
Click to expand...

That's actually what I said. He must have an excellent agent!
 
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Crowley was at Ascot; Stott could do the weight, and's a good jockey to boot (c20% s/r) - don't see any problem there, myself.
 
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