The Leaders of the Free World

And I pointed out appeasement of Trump voters was referring to the next Republican leader not Biden but you choose to assume what you thought I meant there too.
 
Desert Orchid said:
One psychologist on a TV debate suggested he has a condition - can't remember the exact phrase used - along the lines of narcissistic egotism but that he is blind to it. He has no self-awareness. He doesn't consider the consequences of what he says.
Click to expand...

This I'd have thought:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder

Narcissism, Machiavellianism and Psychopathy are known as the 'Dark Triad' of personality traits/disorders and I would suggest that they occur with a greater frequency in politicians than in the public at large

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_triad
 
Tout Seul said:
I know quite a bit about Trump and his integrity from my time in international finance. I wouldn’t have trusted him running a one roomed b&b let alone a hotel and property business. Could give great detail but won’t.
The vast majority of his supporters are probably decent honest people that deserve much better leadership than he is capable of delivering. What irks me is that he doesn’t seem to care about his people at all.
Click to expand...

Here’s how I see it.

70m Americans voted for him. That’s around 47% of voters, and around 30% of the adult population of the USA.

I can well believe that 30% of the adult US population are either half-wits or racists or both.
 
Desert Orchid said:
I have 'family' in the USA, many of whom are on FB.

Some of them have genuinely shocked me with their red-neck political and social ideas while others are die-hard democrats but who are also pro-guns, etc.

I posted a message the other evening expressing my shock and sadness at the scenes at/in the Capitol.

The red-necks were the ones who shared my post to highlight how the world viewed America as a democracy going down the toilet under Trump. They were calling for the violence to stop immediately.

I'm not convinced there is a great deal of difference between people across America on either end of the political spectrum.

You'll find nutjobs in every country in the world. In America and in the UK we have proved beyond doubt that nutjobs can get to be national leaders. America's problem is Trump's psychological defects having the platform they have.

One psychologist on a TV debate suggested he has a condition - can't remember the exact phrase used - along the lines of narcissistic egotism but that he is blind to it. He has no self-awareness. He doesn't consider the consequences of what he says.

In a parallel universe I might have wanted to study psychology. It fascinates me. But I also want to understand what makes people vote in these nutjobs.

I know the answer in the UK: the right wing redtop rags. People buy them because they can't read. A study has concluded that the writing in the Sun is set at a reading age of seven. The other tabloids aren't far above that. Yet these are the papers that are influencing how hoi polloi think and vote. It's why we're in the sh!t we're in here.

If there are equivalents in the USA of these rags either in newspaper form or cable news stations then it would explain why people like Trump can get elected.

The worst thing to have happened in my time is the rise of celebrity culture. Trump would be on a golf course bullying lackeys for the last four years if ordinary people weren't hooked on celebrities.

And that comes back down to media moguls dictating political agenda.

I've never been in favour of democracy as the best form of government because it doesn't work if people in general are not politically educated.

Give me a benevolent despot any time.
Click to expand...

Gave me one of the best laughs I’ve had on here and I’ve had few believe me.
Let me guess by ‘not politically educated’ you mean not left wing….
Hhhmm so are you saying forget self-determination and majority rule, those who in your opinion have the ‘correct’ viewpoint should be able to rule over those who don’t eh?
Ffs you are hilarious !!

Mind you probably one of the very few areas we agree on is the utter disdain I have for celeb culture.
 
Last edited:
Slim said:
The biggest problem with critiquing Trump is it's all too simplisitc. For example one of his biggest critics is David Frum, he of Iraq war fame doesn't exactly have the morale high ground. If Trump conducted himself like Obama it would have been business as usual. All the same players were operating in the background like John Bolton etc.

I like what Trump did but I'm now tired of having how bad he is rammed down my throat 24/7. I'd imagine what swung the election was people voting for Biden out of sheer exhaustion.They didn't vote for him beuase he would be good, they voted because he isn't Trump. Nothing will change with Biden being president for ordinary Americans.
Click to expand...


I think when it comes down to brass tacks, Americans (generalisation alert) are a both very transactional and very insecure people. I earned my career crust working in US and in Ireland for US Tech companies and eventually every, (I mean every) business dinner conversation would come down to cost of college for kids, healthcare, housing etc. And there it would stay for the night. Obsessively. Even the high earners fret constantly on existential matters regarding wealth and as they are all employed on an 'at will' basis their insecurity is constant as there is little or no social safety net.

So, the question they ask in electing leaders is not, 'who will have the best ethical/cultural impact on my nation?' but who will have the most beneficial impact on my 401K plan (pension)? I'd say 70% of their vote is weighted on this. I completely refute that 74M voted for DT because they respect his values or his persona (he has no policies). In my view the vast majority voted for him because he would give less of their money to others and that he had more chance of creating a bull run on the stock exchanges.

In my own case my investments and pension since Jan 17 (with my personal contributions since then discounted) are about 32% higher now. So if I was a septic tank I would probably think he was a wise choice. (I still wouldn't vote for the slimy phucker if you nailed me to a wall though)

ps..97% of Americans I have met are fine decent people and completly unlike those carbon based units we witnessed on Weds. However, my stomping grounds were Silicon Valley, Austin and Colorado Springs. They may be untypical.
 
Last edited:
an capall said:
I think when it comes down to brass tacks, Americans (generalisation alert) are a both very transactional and very insecure people. I earned my career crust working in US and in Ireland for US Tech companies and eventually every, (I mean every) business dinner conversation would come down to cost of college for kids, healthcare, housing etc. And there it would stay for the night. Obsessively. Even the high earners fret constantly on existential matters regarding wealth and as they are all employed on an 'at will' basis their insecurity is constant as there is little or no social safety net.

So, the question they ask in electing leaders is not, 'who will have the best ethical/cultural impact on my nation?' but who will have the most beneficial impact on my 401K plan (pension)?
I'd say 70% of their vote is weighted on this. I completely refute that 74M voted for DT because they respect his values or his persona (he has no policies) in my view the vast majority voted for him because he would give less of their money to others and that he had more chance of creating a bull run on the stock exchanges.

In my own case my investments and pension since Jan 17 (with my personal contributions since then discounted) are about 32% higher. now. So if I was a septic I would probably think he was a wise choice. (I still wouldn't vote for the slimy phucker if you nailed me to a wall though)

ps..97% of Americans I have met are fine decent people and completly unlike those carbon based units we witnessed on Weds. However, my stomping grounds were Silicon Valley, Austin and Colorado Springs. They may be untypical.
Click to expand...

Nice post. You could be a journalist you know...
 
an capall said:
I think when it comes down to brass tacks, Americans (generalisation alert) are a both very transactional and very insecure people. I earned my career crust working in US and in Ireland for US Tech companies and eventually every, (I mean every) business dinner conversation would come down to cost of college for kids, healthcare, housing etc. And there it would stay for the night. Obsessively. Even the high earners fret constantly on existential matters regarding wealth and as they are all employed on an 'at will' basis their insecurity is constant as there is little or no social safety net.

So, the question they ask in electing leaders is not, 'who will have the best ethical/cultural impact on my nation?' but who will have the most beneficial impact on my 401K plan (pension)? I'd say 70% of their vote is weighted on this. I completely refute that 74M voted for DT because they respect his values or his persona (he has no policies). In my view the vast majority voted for him because he would give less of their money to others and that he had more chance of creating a bull run on the stock exchanges.

In my own case my investments and pension since Jan 17 (with my personal contributions since then discounted) are about 32% higher now. So if I was a septic tank I would probably think he was a wise choice. (I still wouldn't vote for the slimy phucker if you nailed me to a wall though)

ps..97% of Americans I have met are fine decent people and completly unlike those carbon based units we witnessed on Weds. However, my stomping grounds were Silicon Valley, Austin and Colorado Springs. They may be untypical.
Click to expand...

And if anything is a sign for a future civil war, it is the fact that in then midst of a global pandemic that it has had no effect on stock exchange, however subsidised it was. Has all the hallmarks of a pyramid scheme. Hope we all are retired before it bangs.
 
pawras said:
Gave me one of the best laughs I’ve had on here and I’ve had few believe me.
Let me guess by ‘not politically educated’ you mean not left wing….
Hhhmm so are you saying forget self-determination and majority rule, those who in your opinion have the ‘correct’ viewpoint should be able to rule over those who don’t eh?
Ffs you are hilarious !!
Click to expand...

You may find me hilarious and I'm allowed to find you disagreeably forceful in your manner and opinion. I imagine you as the kind of person who, like Trump, thinks the louder you shout the more correct your opinion is.

But you have me wrong.

By 'politically educated' I mean arguing rationally and intelligently - something you can't do either - in support of your views.

My London-based brother was an advocate of Brexit but it had absolutely nothing to do with xenophobia or immigration or nationalistic tendencies. He had studied the politico-economic arguments on both sides and found himself aligning more with the pro-Brexit side. He wouldn't use a tabloid to wipe his arse and only reads the broadsheets - all of them.

I can't think of two more different people than you and him.

But you've repeatedly shown yourself to be a thoroughly offensive entity so I'm putting you on 'ignore' along with the other ignoramuses I have on that facility.
 
Politics isn't simply binary. If your not Right wing it doesn't mean you are Left wing. It's a wide spectrum.
 
Tout Seul said:
Politics isn't simply binary. If your not Right wing it doesn't mean you are Left wing. It's a wide spectrum.
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter what you are in America, you are getting fucked by the billionaire/donor class either way.
 
Desert Orchid said:
You may find me hilarious and I'm allowed to find you disagreeably forceful in your manner and opinion. I imagine you as the kind of person who, like Trump, thinks the louder you shout the more correct your opinion is.

But you have me wrong.

By 'politically educated' I mean arguing rationally and intelligently - something you can't do either - in support of your views.

My London-based brother was an advocate of Brexit but it had absolutely nothing to do with xenophobia or immigration or nationalistic tendencies. He had studied the politico-economic arguments on both sides and found himself aligning more with the pro-Brexit side. He wouldn't use a tabloid to wipe his arse and only reads the broadsheets - all of them.

I can't think of two more different people than you and him.

But you've repeatedly shown yourself to be a thoroughly offensive entity so I'm putting you on 'ignore' along with the other ignoramuses I have on that facility.
Click to expand...


LMFAO I'm not the one advocating despots instead of democracy to disenfranchise people I don't agree with
 
DO used the phrase ‘benevolent dictator’ and is criticised for it. I’ve used it several times on here and iirc DO picked me up on it but also understood it’s meaning.
It’s an oxymoron in reality but I was taught in primary school that when asked to vote on something I should first consider the facts, then make my decision and finally vote as if a benevolent dictator for that which was the best outcome for all voting. Thus disregard what is good for you and vote for what is best for the most.
Seems a reasonable way to me.
 
Tout Seul said:
DO used the phrase ‘benevolent dictator’ and is criticised for it. I’ve used it several times on here and iirc DO picked me up on it but also understood it’s meaning.
It’s an oxymoron in reality but I was taught in primary school that when asked to vote on something I should first consider the facts, then make my decision and finally vote as if a benevolent dictator for that which was the best outcome for all voting. Thus disregard what is good for you and vote for what is best for the most.
Seems a reasonable way to me.
Click to expand...

I don't have access to several of the previous posts but I'm glad someone is on the same wavelength.

I honestly don't recall 'picking you up' on the phrase before, TS, but if I did I'd like to think it was in a positive sense as it's a phrase I was introduced to in Philosophy at uni and even by then I could see its merit.

There was a time I could have trusted the Labour party to act for the greater good, something that just isn't part of Conservative policy. That was pretty much the political philosophy in our house while my dad was working but I noticed he became very disenfranchised with his union in the seventies when he felt they were supporting workers who, he felt, deserved to be sacked for their conduct.

It was probably about then he moved towards the right and started buying toilet paper like the Mail.

Politics were rarely discussed in our house thereafter as it was him against at least three of us brothers, it upset our mother and it almost cost him his friendship with his very best buddy who was a shop steward.

Some subjects are deeply divisive. Politics and religion tend to blind people to views beyond their own but I was brought up to be tolerant, polite and kind and would always want to see the greater good prioritised over individual benefit, be that individual one person or a conglomerate.
 
You can see all posts if you’re not logged in so it’s amusing and pointless clutching your pearls and setting people to ignore for when you’re logged in.

“I've never been in favour of democracy as the best form of government because it doesn't work if people in general are not politically educated.
Give me a benevolent despot any time.”

Those were your exact words, but what is deemed as both ‘benevolent’ and ‘politically educated’ are purely your own opinion !
No one has the right, certainly not the likes of you, to determine who is considered suitable, by any measure, to vote and determine the direction of the country.
I think it’s very arrogant if someone thinks they should have the right to vote and influence the lives of others who they would disenfranchise so they have no voice until they deem them worthy.

It’s in some ways akin to those who objected to universal suffrage, in the 19th and early 20th century but yours would the right kind of disenfranchisement because you don’t like the newspaper(s) they read eh? Or maybe you’d like to revoke 1872 ballot act which resulted in secret ballots so the right kind of people can harangue people for not voting ‘correctly’ Lol


Whether people vote in the GE, the EU Ref or anything else on what they personally see as the greater good, which can differ greatly by individual, or purely on their own individual wants and needs or any combination of, is their business and, despite what some elements would obviously prefer, they don’t have to justify any of it to anyone so suck it up buttercup.
 
Last edited:
Au Contraire.

When I am elected to head the Irish Government my first Bill (aka edict) will be allow sufferage only to those living in South Dublin* over 30 years of age and with a Masters degree at least. Once that is done I will move on to ban golf courses that use metres instead of yards in course measurements. That will leave enough time at the end of day one to ban the import and sale of cucumbers.

*(South of the Burlington, East of the M50 and North of Loughlinstown Roundabout.)
 
Back
Top