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The Mullins Machine

jinnyj

jinnyj

Senior Jockey
Joined
Jan 8, 2004
Messages
4,918
OK so I'm going to start a thread which will no doubt cause some controversy but just how do you compete with WPM? Don't get me wrong I DO think the guy is a genius and he has got there through his undoubted ability and being a thoroughly decent man who is respected across the industry. And his humble reaction when his own son won yesterday was a side we haven't seen before so all the more emotional.

BUT is it having a detrimental affect on racing? I appreciate that he runs all his horses against each other and doesn't remotely favour owners or their horses. But is what is fast becoming an industry domination harming the sport? His buyers are commendable as they seem to be able to pick those horses even before they come on the market. They have the cash to back it up too. And of course success breeds success. Every prospective owner is going to look at the results and say "Well actually I'd like some of that please" And why wouldn't you?

It's got to be hugely demoralising though to other trainers. He's got the quantity and he backs that up with the quality. Its not just a case of conveyor belt training - these are genuine star horses that he's producing time and time again. I just don't know how as a trainer, you can compete with that?
 
The people sourcing his horses are obviously brilliant at it but he is also brilliant at getting them to peak when they need to.

He's obviously also brilliant at finding the right races for his horses (and finding the right races in which to run them down the park).

In any other yard the likes of I Am Maximus and Nick Rockett would be running in the Gold Cup but he had Galopin Des Champs going for his third win last month so got them into the National in peak form and off winning marks.
 
Stewart Andrew's post race interview yesterday about drinking $10 Aus wine in a downmarket bar with WPM while hatching the GN plan is something WPM uniquely does.
It brings back memories of WPM in Kiely's Bar Leopardstown Christmas meet 2009/2010 with Rich Ricci.
Rich had maybe 7 winners from 8 horses in training and Willie spent hours with him that evening , Rich in full cabaret mood ,his trainer quietly sipping his Guinness.
Baldeagle and myself watched on incredulously ; there were less than ten people in the bar due to "the Crash " of 2008.
Within two years Rich had 60 horses in training with him at a time the country was as good as closed for business post celtic tiger crash.
Willie knows what he is doing.
At the junction onto the lane to Closutton is Killinane graveyard, formerly site of a monastery believed to be started by a St William. This saint is famous Luxembourg/Belgium for spreading the faith there , according to Mrs Dr Bacon, a good friend of The Apostle known here as Grey.
By giving Grand National success to his Holy Communion companion's husband Willie has done as much to spread the Good News as his saintly namesake from centuries ago.
(Match that An Capall !)
 
edgt said:
Stewart Andrew's post race interview yesterday about drinking $10 Aus wine in a downmarket bar with WPM while hatching the GN plan is something WPM uniquely does.
It brings back memories of WPM in Kiely's Bar Leopardstown Christmas meet 2009/2010 with Rich Ricci.
Rich had maybe 7 winners from 8 horses in training and Willie spent hours with him that evening , Rich in full cabaret mood ,his trainer quietly sipping his Guinness.
Baldeagle and myself watched on incredulously ; there were less than ten people in the bar due to "the Crash " of 2008.
Within two years Rich had 60 horses in training with him at a time the country was as good as closed for business post celtic tiger crash.
Willie knows what he is doing.
At the junction onto the lane to Closutton is Killinane graveyard, formerly site of a monastery believed to be started by a St William. This saint is famous Luxembourg/Belgium for spreading the faith there , according to Mrs Dr Bacon, a good friend of The Apostle known here as Grey.
By giving Grand National success to his Holy Communion companion's husband Willie has done as much to spread the Good News as his saintly namesake from centuries ago.
(Match that An Capall !)
Click to expand...

Post of the year so far, edgt! ☘️☘️☘️☘️
 
archie said:
And the vast majority of Willie's are bought privately. That's where his team excels.
Click to expand...
Three great examples of horses bought from other stables that show the genius of Mullins.
True Self beaten in a Warwick bumper before being sold at public auction for £18K -ended up winning silly money at Riyadh on their biggest night of the year.
Thousand Stars couldn't win a race until Willie got a hold of him.He was a regular at the top table for years winning an incredible amount of prize money.
I Am Maximus -refugee from the Henderson Yard who won an Irish National,Drummore and Aintree National.
Has anyone ever improved a horse previously trained by WPM.
 
Me I have no problem with WP Mullins blowing away the competition and excellence should be applauded, my issue is when I feel a race is overstuffed with runners from one or two yards, so that it feels like they're buying the race and/or using some entries to act as blockers.

IMO I believe trainers should be limited to about 25% of the field in the final decs, and probs capped at 4 overall
i.e. 2-6 runners - 1 only
7-11 runners - 2 max
12-15 runners - 3 max
16+ - 4 max
 
pawras said:
Me I have no problem with WP Mullins blowing away the competition and excellence should be applauded, my issue is when I feel a race is overstuffed with runners from one or two yards, so that it feels like they're buying the race and/or using some entries to act as blockers.

IMO I believe trainers should be limited to about 25% of the field in the final decs, and probs capped at 4 overall
i.e. 2-6 runners - 1 only
7-11 runners - 2 max
12-15 runners - 3 max
16+ - 4 max
Click to expand...
Although I have some sympathy with this view, it isn’t really fair and probably could be worked around anyway. In Saturdays national, Willie had 5 different owners represented, it wouldn’t be fair on the owner whose horse was then not able to run.

I guess what would happen with such a rule is that, Patrick Mullins would be soon taking out a licence, or horses moving to relatives, to circumvent the rule. Additionally, with such an approach you would then need another rule restricting owners to a maximum entry to address the same problem of multiple entries.

The answer really is that other owners and trainers have to up their game.
 
Mr Whatoxo said:
Although I have some sympathy with this view, it isn’t really fair and probably could be worked around anyway. In Saturdays national, Willie had 5 different owners represented, it wouldn’t be fair on the owner whose horse was then not able to run.

I guess what would happen with such a rule is that, Patrick Mullins would be soon taking out a licence, or horses moving to relatives, to circumvent the rule. Additionally, with such an approach you would then need another rule restricting owners to a maximum entry to address the same problem of multiple entries.

The answer really is that other owners and trainers have to up their game.
Click to expand...
I meant to add that I would place the same restrictions on owners as well.
If a trainer is restricted to the number of runners in final decs then I think it's a good thing if owners gravitate less to a handful of super yards
Plus where relatives are licenced as trainers but they're all in the same place really I'd count as one.
 
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Looking at some metrics for trainers ie percentage runners beaten sq (prb2) over different date ranges , plus total prize won and prize money won per runner over the last 365 and 1825 days.
Yeah WP Mullins is top shelf but he's not the only great trainer.
See below where I've ordered results of an sql query by prize money won per run the last 365 days

1744107578201.png
 
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But how do they do that? Realistically if they can't out-buy the Mullins buyers? They are getting there way in advance of any other agents simply because understandably, breeders want their horses to go there too.
 
Looking at a rough and ready indicative yard size by counting the number of individual horses a trainer has sent out over the last year I get for the 1250 or so trainers that have competed in GB & IRE in the last year, these are the top 50. However the median number of individual horses is 10 and the mean average 23, a long way from those at the top end.

1744116363668.png

1744117134829.png
 
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jinnyj said:
But how do they do that? Realistically if they can't out-buy the Mullins buyers? They are getting there way in advance of any other agents simply because understandably, breeders want their horses to go there too.
Click to expand...
Emmet Mullins has found a niche for himself-Gordon Elliott made his name having winners at Perth.Lillie can't win everything.
 
The table below shows Willie Mullins record in Ireland over the last 6 seasons. It goes without saying he’s a great trainer, but this also indicates what great targeting his team have. It is an almost perfect record of more winners than seconds, more seconds than thirds and more thirds than fourths. Particularly striking is the differences between between firsts and seconds.

The race planning is brilliant and the man is a winner.


SeasonRunsWins%2nd3rd4th
24/2573218025%1138974
23/2486525730%1269982
22/2383123729%1419875
21/2277420326%1179366
20/2165218228%877757
19/2065616625%966772
 
pawras said:
Me I have no problem with WP Mullins blowing away the competition and excellence should be applauded, my issue is when I feel a race is overstuffed with runners from one or two yards, so that it feels like they're buying the race and/or using some entries to act as blockers.

IMO I believe trainers should be limited to about 25% of the field in the final decs, and probs capped at 4 overall
i.e. 2-6 runners - 1 only
7-11 runners - 2 max
12-15 runners - 3 max
16+ - 4 max
Click to expand...
Historically that would have deprived us of the famous five.
 
LUKE said:
Historically that would have deprived us of the famous five.
Click to expand...
Meh , no trainer, owner, jockey or horse is bigger than the sport.
I believe what I suggested is better for the overall long term health of the sport
 
pawras said:
Meh , no trainer, owner, jockey or horse is bigger than the sport.
I believe what I suggested is better for the overall long term health of the sport
Click to expand...
I think you would be penalising success.My father hates trainers having two runners in a race-something he tells me on a regular basis.
 


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