The new end to the Flat Season - how is it working out ?

A

Ardross

Senior Jockey
Joined
Aug 8, 2007
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So far not very well

1.Disastrous attendances at the Cambridgeshire meeting ( partly this is to do with the fact that Newmarket Rowley Mile is now such an overwhelmingly unwelcoming course , a main stand like a bad wetherspoons and the members facilities creaking at the seams - and the Middle Park looks like it is going to suffer significantly from being moved back .

2.A flat season now where staying two year olds are given no chance to race round a bend in the UK .

3 A meeting at Ascot last weekend that really was just not good enough . The big hcap nigh on sacrificed for Champions Day and a few ragbag listed and G3 races and apart from the terrible sales race no 2 yo races at all and why a six furlong and five furlong sprint . The Rous Stakes moved in part of the horse trading no doubt but the meetings are unbalanced . There is no sprint at the Cambridgeshire meeting .

4 The next two weeks are probably the lousiest weekdays in the whole Flat year . The Future Champions fixture was meant to be 2 days ( the old Houghton meeting ) but no doubt due to whinging from Tattersalls the first day was moved to saturday . So this week is dreadful

5 The same applies to next week .

So we may have the two lush oases of the Saturdays but the rest of the week is dire .

Racing is going down the pan . BHA toothless , the racecourses and the Horsemens Group greedy and self-interested with no interest or care for the traditions and shape of the season . The bookmakers deliberately promoting everything else so they do not have to pay gross profits tax on it , the exchanges full of high players not paying any tax for acting as de facto bookmakers , the levy through the floor ... I have never been so depressed about the sport .
 
I don't know about the beginning, middle or end but given results at the weekend once again boosting Frankel's form they should be promoting this horse to high heaven and make him the poster boy for UK racing. He'll be here next year, which is fantastic news if it does happen.

The more this season goes on the more I think we have been watching one of the greatest horses ever to grace the turf. They missed the boat with Sea the Stars and they really should have learned.

I agree about the 2yo races Ardross - I think they have dropped a rick there.

The Rowley mile course has been rubbish for years. The first time I went was the year Rakti won the champion stakes and it hasn't improved since.

Newmarket is like Newbury for me in that it is a good track for the horses and perhaps TV but they are both crap for the paying punter. Someone will say different about Newbury but I really don't like the place.
 
Grasshopper said:
Yeah............I'll be biting on this one, for sure. :rolleyes: :)
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Is it not true?

Horse exposed as not good enough on the flat, send him jumping.

Horse is progressive on the flat, keep him there.

Hence, in terms of flat breds, NH gets the flat rejects.

There really is no other way to look at it.
 
Such foolish logic would suggest that all 5f horses are better than Arc winners, would it not?

Horse exposed as too slow for 5f - up him in trip to 10f or 12f

Hence, by your own criteria, all Flat breeding operations are focusing on entirely the wrong type of horse, are they not? If speed is what it's all about?

Please do keep this line of reasoning going. It's an argument I win 100% of the time. ;)
 
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Grasshopper said:
Such foolish logic would suggest that all 5f horses are better than Arc winners, would it not?

Horse exposed as too slow for 5f - up him in trip to 10f or 12f

Hence, by your own criteria, all Flat breeding operations are focusing on entirely the wrong type of horse, are they not? If speed is what it's all about.

Please do keep this line of reasoning going. It's an argument I win 100% of the time. ;)
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Oh dear.
 
Hamm said:
Hence, in terms of flat breds, NH gets the flat rejects.

There really is no other way to look at it.
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But the cream of the jumping crop aren't flat breds - so it's not much of a point. I have a bet on the Champion Stakes but after the Arc was run my immediate thought was Diamond Harry taking on Long Run at Haydock next month not an appalling looking Dewhurst this weekend.
 
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Grasshopper said:
Such foolish logic would suggest that all 5f horses are better than Arc winners, would it not?

Horse exposed as too slow for 5f - up him in trip to 10f or 12f

Hence, by your own criteria, all Flat breeding operations are focusing on entirely the wrong type of horse, are they not? If speed is what it's all about?

Please do keep this line of reasoning going. It's an argument I win 100% of the time. ;)
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a horse that wins at 5f can win at 2 miles over jumps...so your comaprison with a 5f to 12f flat isn't valid

the fact it doesn't work like that on the flat..actually makes NH look even slower..basically you can stretch a 5f horse out to beat 2 milers over jumps..must mean they are very slow ;)
 
They have, Maoi Cinn Tire won a juvenile hurdle at Wetherby last season. But at odds of 200/1, so hardly an example on which to draw much of a conclusion.

A rule of thumb would be you need to stay 10f on the flat to have a good chance of staying 2m over hurdles. There will be exceptions, but not that many.
 
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i think thats stretching tother way a bit though..horses bred for a mile on the flat win at 2 miles no problem

that wouldn't happen in flat races though

the fact is that NH is not as demanding speed wise..but its demanding in other areas..like jumping:lol:
 
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EC1 said:
.....the fact is that NH is not as demanding speed wise..but its demanding in other areas..like jumping:lol:
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Exactly my point, EC1.

Jumping is an entirely different examination, and only a donut would suggest that a horse's merit on the level has any bearing on it's ability to jump. It's like saying Wayne Gretsky was shite, because he couldn't skate like Robin Cousins - an opinion so dense that only the Pauli Exclusion Principle prevents it from getting any more so.

And if someone is prepared to got to war with this fig-leaf of an argument, how would they account for all those 90+ horses from the Flat that singularly fail to land a blow in even the most rudimentary juvenile or novice hurdle? Are they conveniently filed-away as "non-stayers"......or are they filed under the more accurate heading "Flattie equine bender with severe 'poncing around' tendencies. Can fuck right off back to Yarmouth or whatever other Flatist toilet it came from"?

Seems I bit after all! :lol:
 
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the flat seller stuff always brings ot the best in you :lol:

thats blown the cobwebs away nicely for you i would say;)

aspirin is pretty good for severe poncing around tendencies:)
 
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Getting back to the subject of the thread, I've decided to head for Ascot on Saturday week. I think it's a pity, though, that there is no big juvenile race on the card.
 
EC1 said:
the flat seller stuff always brings ot the best in you :lol:

thats blown the cobwebs away nicely for you i would say;)

aspirin is pretty good for severe poncing around tendencies:)
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:lol:

Can only bite my tongue for so long, EC1. :cool:
 
I agree about racing going down the pan, most of the people in charge seems to be clowns.

Scheduling wise, international flat racing is actually thriving. Im not a big fan of this new meeting at Ascot but lets give it a chance. They're been incredibly lucky with the weather, no soft/bog. Newmarket struggles to attracts crowd partly due to its location, most people go racing these days as a social occasion and HQ dosent do a good enoguh job?? having said that i much rather have a smaller crowd of 'racing' fans instead of millions of drunken people who dont know their ass from their elbow.
 
I think the rescheduling in the UK affected the Arc undercard at the weekend too. There aren't the horses to have two champions days in Europe two weeks apart. If Britain wants a Champions Day, they can have one around the time of the Leger.

I just think the whole programme and "narrative" as Steve Mellish put it last year has been turned upside down and there is no narrative now, especially for two year olds.
 
This is the worst year for 2 year olds since I have been following racing. The 2 Arc juvenile races were dreadful, and there is little to get excited about this weekend. You get the feeling in other years, AOB would have found 3/4 better than Power at this stage.
 
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