The Pantheon?

Desert Orchid

Desert Orchid

Senior Jockey
Joined
Aug 2, 2005
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This is a screenshot of an item in the RP about where GDC sits in comparison to other 'greats'.

Not sure I agree entirely - I'd have Desert Orchid top - but nice to see Carvills Hill in there. I'd also have Master Oats in the low-mid 180s but I'm pleased that Best Mate is nowhere to be seen.

I presume Arkle is too far back in the past to count.

So, do you agree?

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Carvills Hill was some machine on his day but unfortunately he had plenty of bad days.Not sure what Master Minded is doing on that list.
 
Personally I think there is always a lot of hate for Best mate down to this lack of opposition best of his era type thing. 3 times gold cup winner end of !

Controversial but I wasn't a fan of Sprinter Sacre for me Moscow flyer was the best 2 mile chaser I've ever seem. I've said before Master mindeds first Champion chase was the best performance I've ever see by any horse over 2 mile and would be right up there with Kautos best performances at Kempton. I'd also think Altior was not far off Sprinter and a much more likeable horse.

Kauto will always be top for me I wasn't around for previous eras.

And I think Gallopin after his last performance is closer to Kauto than what they have him. I'd like to see if he runs to that level again this season. That last performance was absolutely top draw in my opinion. Ridiculously good.
 
Seeing as obviously none of these horses from over the years is ever going to race each other, so I can never have a bet on it, I consider this one of the most (among many) pointless ongoing geeky debates in racing.

That said, I'm a bit of a geek myself, consequently I do have a bit of a view.

Growing in popularity in recent years is the notion that the ratings of Arkle and Flyingbolt must have been inflated as it beggars belief two such highly-rated animals could have been in the same era, let alone the same yard.

There's also talk of how the modern racehorse faces a completely different training regime so comparisons with the past are futile.

But for me ratings link all the eras, and you have to assume and allow for the benefits modern training methods would provide for horses of yesteryear.

For me, Arkle still sets a benchmark that may (never say never, as Frankel surely demonstrated on the Flat) be surpassed, regardless of what that bunch of Millenials to Generation Z'ers with their limited historical database at the RP might think.

My view on Galopin Des Champs is he is a well above average, already multiple, Cheltenham Gold Cup winner, who is particularly lethal at Leopardstown, and I'm happy to leave it at that.

He will obviously never meet the outstanding chasers of yesteryear so, as originally stated, I'm not going to waste time wondering if he could have beaten any of them or not, as that time can be more usefully spent conniving to secure my next discounted Tesco Meal Deal.
 
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Arkle Mill House Buona Notte Dunkirk are not on the list because the writer is not comparing any of them to Galloping Des Champs. With that out the road Kauto Star heads the list and that is hard to argue with but for me Sprinter Sacre was a touch classier, certainly a better jumper and simply unbeatable at his best. I certainly would not have Master Minded on the list and why Burrough Hill Lad is not among the top ones defies logic.
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Ian_Davies said:
Seeing as obviously none of these horses from over the years is ever going to race each other, so I can never have a bet on it, I consider this one of the most (among many) pointless ongoing geeky debates in racing.

That said, I'm a bit of a geek myself, consequently I do have a bit of a view.

Growing in popularity in recent years is the notion that the ratings of Arkle and Flyingbolt must have been inflated as it beggars belief two such highly-rated animals could have been in the same era, let alone the same yard.

There's also talk of how the modern racehorse faces a completely different training regime so comparisons with the past are futile.

But for me ratings link all the eras, and you have to assume and allow for the benefits modern training methods would provide for horses of yesteryear.

For me, Arkle still sets a benchmark that may (never say never, as Frankel surely demonstrated on the Flat) be surpassed, regardless of what that bunch of Millenials to Generation Z'ers with their limited historical database at the RP might think.

My view on Galopin Des Champs is he is a well above average, already multiple, Cheltenham Gold Cup winner, who is particularly lethal at Leopardstown, and I'm happy to leave it at that.

He will obviously never meet the outstanding chasers of yesteryear so, as originally stated, I'm not going to waste time wondering if he could have beaten any of them or not, as that time can be more usefully spent conniving to secure my next discounted Tesco Meal Deal.
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You got a hard neck on you with some of the absolute pointless crap you have posted on here..at least 3 I can think off that got Zero responses. Dessie is a flag bearer poster who people almost always respond to. Best you keep your neg head responses to yourself and stop critisizing others
 
That Masterminded performance to earn that lofty rating was never backed up by subsequent performances. But a literal interpretation of that one 2008 CC win lifts him to great heights. I always prefer to see the champions back up a performance from the gods.

Kauto is definitely the best horse jumper I have ever seen
 
Yes, Flat or Jumps, a one-off monster figure run is always harder to accept.

I was at Epsom when Slip Anchor won The Derby - I loved the colt (had 20/1 ante-post so I'd have to love him) and he looked great that day and Chris Wright at Timeform told me he ran to a monster time figure, but he never even managed to win another race, let alone reach that level again.
 
Tanlic said:
why Burrough Hill Lad is not among the top ones defies logic.
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It's for peak RPR in the last 37 years apparently. I've said elsewhere that Galopin Des Champs is, in my opinion, the best Gold Cup winner this century and the earlier one that I'd go back to would be Burrough Hill Lad.

As also said elsewhere, at somewhere like Kempton I'm not sure that he would be as effective but left-handed with an uphill finish seems to bring out the best in him.
 
Yes, 37 years is a strange cut-off point. Is that as far back as the RP database goes?

I was a big fan of Burrough Hill Lad too. Did me a few turns.

Another big favourite, which I accept wouldn't make the pantheon, is Titus Oates. I think it won the Whitbread under something like 12-7.

Edit - it was 11-13 that day, holding off Young Ash Leaf which I remember landed my father a big ante-post bet when she won the Scottish National. I think he had 33/1. I think he might also have had it in an ante-post double with the Lincoln winner, Double Cream, also at 33/1.

Edit 2 - Can anyone recall if TO won a big handicap off 12-7?
 
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Not quite 12.7 He carried 11.13lbs but it goes back a long way to 1971. larbawn who won the race twice was his main rival that day
2 years earlier Roddy Armatage claimed he had Flyingbolt back to his best and entered him for the King George..he looked the winner for a long way but when push came to shove he failed to see out the trip and Titus Oats won easily. Class Animal who had the same grandsire as Arkle
 
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