The Start of the Flat

If only someone would create a big valuable card full of Group 1 races in late March which would attract good horses from all over the world.
 
chroniclandlord said:
It mentions that four Group 1 races are being monitored, any idea what the other three are?
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The other three are the Criterium de Saint-Cloud, the Baden-Baden (or whatever it's called), and the Preis von Bayern Munich.

I read somewhere that they are looking at downgrading the Derrinstown Trial as well, having already downgraded the Leopardstown Guineas Trial to Listed. Hardly surprising to see the Royal Whip downgraded to a Group 3, though I was slightly surprised to see the Kilboy Estate updated to Group 2.

edit: what Diamond Geezer said!
 
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Surprised the Nunthorpe isn't on that list. Pretty shocking if France were to lose Group 1 status for one of its Classics.
 
Surprised that the French Guineas and the Derrinstown are on the monitor list, the rest are no surprise at all.

Of those whose status has changed, the Royal whip has been a week Group 2 and the Leopardstown Guineas Trial was a very weak Group 3.

The Tattersalls and the Irish St Leger must be keeping above the thresholds ok.
 
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Tattersalls has had terrible fields but excellent winners.

Amazed to see the Poulains so low, but look at the winners this century and you will see why:

2000 Bachir
2001 Vahorimix
2002 Landseer
2003 Clodovil
2004 American Post
2005 Shamardal
2006 Aussie Rules
2007 Astronomer Royal
2008 Falco
2009 Silver Frost
2010 Lope de Vega
2011 Tin Horse
2012 Lucayan
 
simmo said:
The pattern was only introduced in the early 70's. The early season classics still have a great deal of cachet, although it is increasingly true that the end of season races are growing in stature.
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The pattern of British racing was established aeons before it became an official title, and was designed for young horses to gradually step up in trip as they matured.
Condensing that pattern to where both 6 & 7f gp1's for colts are run on the same day is alien to its purpose.
 
Bar the Bull said:
Amazed to see the Poulains so low, but look at the winners this century and you will see why:

2000 Bachir
2001 Vahorimix
2002 Landseer
2003 Clodovil
2004 American Post
2005 Shamardal
2006 Aussie Rules
2007 Astronomer Royal
2008 Falco
2009 Silver Frost
2010 Lope de Vega
2011 Tin Horse
2012 Lucayan
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A lot of Group 2 types there all right.
 
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reet hard said:
The pattern of British racing was established aeons before it became an official title, and was designed for young horses to gradually step up in trip as they matured.
Condensing that pattern to where both 6 & 7f gp1's for colts are run on the same day is alien to its purpose.
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Whilst I agree that the idea of running the Middle Park and Dewhurst on the same day is a bad idea, it cannot be said that the ancient pattern of British racing designed for young horses to gradually step up in trip is being ripped asunder by it, primarily because that it is factually incorrect to apply such a design to the Middle Park and the Dewhurst.

By that time of the season, historically speaking, 2yo's were and are running over the full gamut of 5f-1m in group races.
 
Re grading races is pointless.A couple of years ago the Leop Derby trial was the big one now they're talking about a down grade. The winner of the Chester Vase invariably runs a good race without winning. Maybe grade all the trials the same and leave them alone. They're only guessing
 
Regarding the Poulains, they only take into account the last three renewals when they calculate whether its above or below the threshold for a Group 1.

The official ratings given to the first four home in each renewal are averaged to produce an annual rating. In this case, the numbers are (roughly):

2010: 120 / 119 / 116 / 112, Average: 116.75
2011: 115 / 111 / 110 / 107, Average: 110.75
2012: 112 / 111 / 111 / 111, Average: 111.25

The last three averages are then averaged again, in this case giving 112.92.

A Group 1 race needs to stay over 115.

There's a few procedures in place that should save it unless they go another couple of years like the last two. The full criteria is at:

http://www.horseracingintfed.com/aboutDisplay.asp?section=7&file=4
 
I think the problem here is that too many "poor" placed horses could potentially spoil the rating of a top race.

I was reading recently the top 50 races in the world and I was really surprised to see the St Leger scoring higher than the 2000 Gns. Another surprising example for me is the Jacques Le Marois above the QE2.
 
The William Hill Lincoln will be run a week later - at Doncaster on Easter Saturday, March 30 - should the race be abandoned this Saturday. Entries will return to the weights published stage.
 
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Yeah lets all donate to the bookmakers charity and have a bet on the Spring Double........I hate the start of the flat........If I bet every horse in a race the non runner would win it.
 
I tend to bet quite cautiously in the early stages of the flat season. However, I seldom, if ever, let the Lincoln go by without a bet or two in it since it has been kind to me down the years but I was seriously thinking of giving it a miss this season.

It's tricky enough at the best of times but the winter we've had will have held up some yards more than others and the prospect of heavy ground is off-putting. Then there's the draw.

I reckon I might as well take the weekend off and take the form of the race forward in the weeks to come.

Can't see the meeting going ahead anyway but if conditions were to dry out by next Saturday I can see me being tempted.
 
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It is not all that long since the Flat started with the Lincoln , the week after was Aintree or Easter ( with a once excellent meeting at Kempton on the Monday ) , then the Ascot Guineas Trial meeting, then the Craven and Newbury .

The problem now is the gap - Ireland's flat season manages to start with better racing - there is no reason why ours cannot be improved .

Putting the Craven meeting back to 3 days putting it on terrestrial TV and returning it in real terms to 1980s values would be a good start - a Free Hcap with £80,000 to the winner would be a proper target .
 
Agree totally Ardross. I remember The Minstrel sloshing through the Ascot mud in the 2000 Gns trial and Cloonlara refusing to race in 77; the hype around Leonardo da Vinci in1978 in Wood Ditton Stakes and White Rose Stks in 78.
Wood Ditton winner always seemed to get a quote near the top of Derby Ante post betting when I was a lad!
Free Handicap winners like Remainder Man and Green Desert;those were the days!
 
edgt said:
the hype around Leonardo da Vinci in1978 in Wood Ditton Stakes and White Rose Stks in 78.
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I remember it well. He won the White Rose by ten lengths and was very short for the Derby. Peter Walwyn was in his pomp in those days, it was still the early days of Brigadier Gerard's stud career and there was something very appealing about a son of that great horse out of an Oaks winner in Lupe. I went to York for the Dante and the Life and Chronicle both headlined him on the front page. Leonardo Da Vinci went off odds-on in a field of nine which included Shirley Heights and Julio Mariner and was beaten seven and a half lengths into fifth. There was a huge groan when he came under pressure early in the straight. He missed the Derby and wasn't seen again until the Leger Meeting when he was well-beaten in a minor conditions event. And that was it. I think they found him a place at stud abroad.
 
Ardross said:
It is not all that long since the Flat started with the Lincoln , the week after was Aintree or Easter ( with a once excellent meeting at Kempton on the Monday ) , then the Ascot Guineas Trial meeting, then the Craven and Newbury .

The problem now is the gap - Ireland's flat season manages to start with better racing - there is no reason why ours cannot be improved .

Putting the Craven meeting back to 3 days putting it on terrestrial TV and returning it in real terms to 1980s values would be a good start - a Free Hcap with £80,000 to the winner would be a proper target .
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Wasn't the Lincoln always the last Saturday in March (possibly unless Easter fell very early) and the National the first Saturday in April? Or was there always a fortnight between them?

The Free Handicap used to be one of the biggest races of the spring, occasionally highlighting the chances of a 2000G contender. It would be nice to see it restored to its former prominence but I suppose it has lost that because trainers opted for other targets.
 
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