The Terrorism Of Intolerance

Suny, if you don't think that religious history is important, then you've missed the whole point of the Pope's discussion! Really, I can't believe that you think we live with the memory spans of goldfish, and that people who really, really BELIEVE in everything they've been taught, through thousands of hours of rote learning (I'm talking mostly about Muslim scholars, but it applies just as much to Christian leaders, priests and monks) don't regard the historical content of their religions as informing their actions today. The purpose of religion was to set out the values and rules by which society should live - you may as well throw those out as well as the history of religious strife, since they're all ancient.

The Pope was discussing the issue of holy war, and quoted an ancient text. What would you have him do, throw away all of the Vatican's vast library, and expunge the history you don't care for? Why don't we go all out, throw out the Turin Shroud, burn the Dead Sea Scrolls, smash all the cathedrals and churches, build a nice supermarket over the Dome of the Rock? Then we'll be free of the reminders of religious history, which, according to you, is not important when considering Islam's reactions to both real and imagined insults.

Like Warbler and Brian, I have no personal interest in adhering to a religion, and I DO believe that among them all, most have indeed managed to bring war, death, destruction and immense suffering to millions of people worldwide. I don't care that they did it in the name of their god or gods. What I do know is that there is a huge back catalogue of religion sanctioning the destruction of native beliefs, tribal kingdoms and ancient civilizations. Hardly something that's 'not important'! Not a lot to be proud of, in my book, which is contrary to the firm belief of those doing the destroying that they were/are only doing it for the good of mankind and his everlasting soul. Oh, and a bit of gold, rubber, and a few diamonds along the way - for the king, queen, or the greater glory of God, of course, so that's okay.

If you are determined to ignore history because it doesn't suit you to think about it, then you live in danger of never learning from it, and letting it repeat itself ad nauseum.

Mind you, we've done a piss-poor job of learning from any history, religious or otherwise, so far.
 
In that context Krizon I expect you to allow the same parity of esteem to the Pope's views on gender. They are backed up by the same huge library.
 
The spanish soldiers are now in Libano and are not allowed to look at the eyes of the women there, they are not allow to drink wine there!!!!

Crikey, foreign soldiers being asked to respect local customs. That's got to be progress.
 
Talking about local costums

It would be great our occidental soldiers asked to pray to la Mecca 5 times a day and of course help to to make ablation to some young girls there.This is the right direction to finish this conflict, and not to try to disarm Hizbullah.
 
What are the Pope's views on gender, AC? I can't see how one can have 'views' on gender. There are males. There are females. To those who believe thus, God made them all. In His likeness. (I do have a wee bit of trouble with that, since it rather implies that God's a bit androgynous, which is okay - I'm not judgmental.) Mere mortals, and I think the Pope will still be one of those, cannot criticise or fault what the Divine Architect has, or hath, created, surely? Or is there something else I should be told about? :brows: Without us wandering entirely off the topic of intolerance...
 
Originally posted by BrianH+Sep 16 2006, 11:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (BrianH @ Sep 16 2006, 11:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Desert Orchid@Sep 16 2006, 11:40 PM
I would also have to ask the question, where is the voice of moderate Islam in all this?
In the same place as the voice of non-sectarian Rangers and Celtic supporters - it's there but it's not news. [/b][/quote]
Not so.

It has featured regularly on the news up here that fans on either side of the Old Firm divide have not only organised well-publicised initiatives against the tiny-minded minority but they have also shopped fellow supporters to stewards for singing sectarian chants. It's just not important enough for newsrooms and newsdesks outwith Scotland.

Do Al-Jazeera and other agencies from the region regularly show anti-Taliban or anti-Al-Qaeda demonstrations? If they did, I'm pretty sure our news editors would want to show them.

During the troubles in Northern Ireland, there were regular peace marches by people from both sides of the divide voicing their disagreement with actions taken in their name. I'd like to see more Muslims taking to the streets to condemn those who tarnish their peaceful reputation in the name of Islam.
 
Originally posted by Desert Orchid@Sep 17 2006, 08:51 PM
I'd like to see more Muslims taking to the streets to condemn those who tarnish their peaceful reputation in the name of Islam.
You will not see that for sure.
 
Originally posted by Desert Orchid@Sep 17 2006, 08:51 PM
It has featured regularly on the news up here
Then you should stop keeping it to yourselves

Try: Christians & Muslims For Peace

or: Muslim/Jewish Peace Walk

or: Muslims Against Extremism & Terrorism

or: Muslims Against Terrorism

or: M.A.T.(Muslims Against Terrorism)

or: Islamic Statements Against terrorism

Or why not look at over 10,000,000 such sites yourself? And why not also point them out to those who say that nearly all Muslims support the fanatics and extremists?

And, by the way, when you've finished with those milions of sites enter "Rangers And Celtic Supporters For Peace" in Google and briefly check the ten articles that come up on the first page! :D
 
Well done, Brian. I'm ever-grateful that you take the time to locate info which helps to balance the tidal wave of anti-Islamic bilge that's slopping about at present. Anyone would think that the only atrocity the world has ever known is 9/11. And I think if it had been a mad Christofundie organisation which bombed the lights out of a couple of mosques in the USA, we'd never hear the start of it.
 
Well said, the fundies in the States are every bit as scary as the Muslims. They even want creationism taught as a science in schools.
 
Originally posted by BrianH+Sep 17 2006, 11:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (BrianH @ Sep 17 2006, 11:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Desert Orchid@Sep 17 2006, 08:51 PM
It has featured regularly on the news up here
Then you should stop keeping it to yourselves

Try: Christians & Muslims For Peace

or: Muslim/Jewish Peace Walk

or: Muslims Against Extremism & Terrorism

or: Muslims Against Terrorism

or: M.A.T.(Muslims Against Terrorism)

or: Islamic Statements Against terrorism

Or why not look at over 10,000,000 such sites yourself? And why not also point them out to those who say that nearly all Muslims support the fanatics and extremists?

And, by the way, when you've finished with those milions of sites enter "Rangers And Celtic Supporters For Peace" in Google and briefly check the ten articles that come up on the first page! :D [/b][/quote]
I had a quick look through the 'title' pages. The biggest (only) group consisted of 5 people.

Did I say anything about nearly all Muslims supporting the fanatics and extremists? No. But, to quote yourself, you don't mind good stories getting in the way of the facts.

My point is that we don't see such marches or demonstrations on TV.

I'm asking why not and why we don't hear more from the vast number of Muslims who are against the fanatics and extremists.
 
Religion was invented by conmen thousands of years ago to keep people in their place. It is a con and the curse of society.
 
Quite possibly, DO, for the same reason you didn't see a lot of moderates marching for peace against the IRA, when that organisation was busy blowing up Airey Neave, Lord Mountbatten and schoolboys in Manchester (with the help of funds raised by the Boston Police Dept., and I mean Boston, Mass., not Boston, Lincs.) - they were a wee bit concerned not to get themselves kneecapped and their houses firebombed.
 
Originally posted by Desert Orchid@Sep 18 2006, 10:40 PM
Did I say anything about nearly all Muslims supporting the fanatics and extremists? No. But, to quote yourself, you don't mind good stories getting in the way of the facts.

Why don't you read what i say before you comment on it?

I'll repeat it here word for word: "Or why not look at over 10,000,000 such sites yourself? And why not also point them out to those who say that nearly all Muslims support the fanatics and extremists?"

No you didn't say it, and my posting makes it as plain that you didn't as it does that others on her have.

And wtf are you on about with the biggest group consisting of only five people? I haven't the faintest idea what you were reading.
 
I would particularly commend the third-listed site 'Free Muslims' to everyone interested in a counterbalancing effort to Islamic violence. There is one answer to 'why don't we hear from Muslims' writ large - you do hear, and you would see, if you actually bothered to look. What we SHOULD ask is why our own media don't promote such messages more strongly, so that people don't draw the inference that no Muslims are interested in non-violence.

This is a very interesting site since it also promotes the notion of the Koran as merely an organ of governance, not some static piece of legislature. Glad you found that one, Brian, particularly as its membership is strongly American Muslim.
 
Originally posted by Homer J@Sep 18 2006, 11:11 PM
Religion was invented by conmen thousands of years ago to keep people in their place. It is a con and the curse of society.
Pretty much my view. You certainly don't get the forces of agnosticism spreading the word by the sword - and I do separate communism from agnosticism before anyone suggests that.
On the other hand, whatever gets you through the night...
 
Originally posted by Desert Orchid@Sep 19 2006, 11:04 AM
Check your own links, Brian. Of the photos posted there the largest gathering of protesters is five people.
You are supposed to read the text, not just look at the pictures. Are you aspiring to become President of the United States?
 
After the Pope had poured fire on troubled oil and managed to upset the Jewish faith the day after he had the Muslims up in arms I was going to post an item to ask was there a religion outside of Christianity that he hadn't had a go at. This was to have ended up "Well, there's probably nothing he can say against the Buddhists."

I was prevented from posting this item when I read that over ten years ago he had referred to the Buddhist religion as a form of masturbation for the mind. All this time after the event his remarks are still remembered by deeply offended Buddhists.

Below I've posted a link for anyone who is interested - I suggest that those who have an implicit belief in the Pope's infallibility don't go there - to a piece by Madeleine Bunting in today's Guardian.

In her article, entitled "A man with little sympathy for other faiths" she says that Pope Benedict is being portrayed as a naive, shy scholar who has accidentally antagonised two major world faiths in a matter of months. Ms Bunting argues that this is not the case and that in fact he is a shrewd and ruthless operator - and dangerous to boot.

Read it here:
Bunting on Benedict
 
Originally posted by BrianH@Sep 19 2006, 11:10 AM
Ms Bunting argues that this is not the case and that in fact he is a shrewd and ruthless operator - and dangerous to boot.
Are we surprised? He was a nazi after all.
 
The Pope's infallibility has nothing to do with a Pope making the odd faux pas. To the best of my knowledge the brass band is not brought in to highlight one of these infallible type statement so any statement once considered to be infallible that is later found to be untrue can easily be recategorised.
 
This post should be removed to a section of jokes.

The Pope a nazi?

Muslims quite and peaceful people

Occident guilty of the behaviour of these barbarian......

I only miss some more posts insulting Bush.
 
Interesting that some of the criticism I was vilified for on here when he was elected now appears to be shared quite generally. The appointment of Ratzinger was a very unwise one.
 
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