Toys Out Of The Pram?

That's what I meant, Brian - for the slip capture. I've a feeling Corals use in-house technology too.

Interesting it may be but do Ladbrokes really have the resources to supply a large percentage of the industry with slip capture software? I doubt it somehow.
 
I'm not really sure where this argument is going. Are people suggesting that Alphameric will withdraw its EPOS systems from shops that refuse to sign-up to TurfTV? That is ridiculous.

My point (the one that Shadow Leader keeps missing), is that, without enough subscribers, TurfTV is doomed.

So far, TurfTV has 13 shops on its books, while the firms responsible for 2/3 of their potential contracts remain steadfastly committed to SIS.

This has nothing to do with bookmakers "cutting off their nose to spite their face". It is simply that they refuse to pay £6.5k per year per shop for a product upon which they are far from dependent.

I think TurfTV thought they could hold bookmakers to ransom, but, imo, they have spectacularly over-estimated the importance/value of betting shop pictures of racing from the tracks on their books. Bookmakers won't pay through the nose for it, because they simply don't need to. They will have more than enough substitute product on offer to thier punters.

And, apart from anything else, once TurfTV has gone under, the LBO TV rights for these tracks will surely be re-negotiated by SIS anyway. This is the favourable long-term outcome that the bookies probably feel they can achieve - ie SIS (the firm in which they have a controlling interest) regains its monopoly. We'll have pictures from all tracks back in betting shops in a matter of months (if not weeks) into 2008 (hopefully in time for Cheltenham). Job done.
 
Originally posted by Relkeel@Apr 4 2007, 10:13 AM
I'm not really sure where this argument is going. Are people suggesting that Alphameric will withdraw its EPOS systems from shops that refuse to sign-up to TurfTV? That is ridiculous.

My point (the one that Shadow Leader keeps missing), is that, without enough subscribers, TurfTV is doomed.

So far, TurfTV has 13 shops on its books, while the firms responsible for 2/3 of their potential contracts remain steadfastly committed to SIS.

This has nothing to do with bookmakers "cutting off their nose to spite their face". It is simply that they refuse to pay £6.5k per year per shop for a product upon which they are far from dependent.

I think TurfTV thought they could hold bookmakers to ransom, but, imo, they have spectacularly over-estimated the importance/value of betting shop pictures of racing from the tracks on their books. Bookmakers won't pay through the nose for it, because they simply don't need to. They will have more than enough substitute product on offer to thier punters.

And, apart from anything else, once TurfTV has gone under, the LBO TV rights for these tracks will surely be re-negotiated by SIS anyway. This is the favourable long-term outcome that the bookies probably feel they can achieve - ie SIS (the firm in which they have a controlling interest) regains its monopoly. We'll have pictures from all tracks back in betting shops in a matter of months (if not weeks) into 2008 (hopefully in time for Cheltenham). Job done.
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But why would an independent pay 13K for something he can get for 6.5K? If SIS end up winning the independent goes back to sis.
 
Originally posted by Relkeel@Apr 4 2007, 08:13 AM
I think TurfTV thought they could hold bookmakers to ransom, but, imo, they have spectacularly over-estimated the importance/value of betting shop pictures of racing from the tracks on their books. Bookmakers won't pay through the nose for it, because they simply don't need to. They will have more than enough substitute product on offer to thier punters.
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Nail on head, relkeel

If the bookmakers couldn't accept bets on the "missing races" things might be a little different, but the fact that punters will get shows and commentaries (and don't forget all the C4 and BBC races) mean that turnover won't suffer dramatically, if at all.

The fact is that betting shop regulars don't sit in a betting shop all day to watch and enjoy quality racing these days. Maybe they did 20 years ago, but anyone of that ilk is now sitting at home watching RUK and ATR and betting on the internet. Even in Cheltenham week, apparently only a third of over the counter bets were placed on races at Cheltenham....
 
Originally posted by Honest Tom@Apr 4 2007, 10:19 AM
But why would an independent pay 13K for something he can get for 6.5K? If SIS end up winning the independent goes back to sis.
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If you mean, "could an independent just go with Turf Tv and not SIS?" I can't see that being feasible at all - AFAIK Turf TV won't have any greyhound races for a start....
 
Originally posted by tdk+Apr 4 2007, 12:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (tdk @ Apr 4 2007, 12:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Honest Tom@Apr 4 2007, 10:19 AM
But why would an independent pay 13K for something he can get for 6.5K? If SIS end up winning the independent goes back to sis.
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If you mean, "could an independent just go with Turf Tv and not SIS?" I can't see that being feasible at all - AFAIK Turf TV won't have any greyhound races for a start.... [/b][/quote]
But surely betting shop regulars don't sit in a betting shop all day to watch and enjoy bags greyhound racing these days.
 
No they don't - what they want is something to bet on every couple of minutes and afternoon Greyhounds service this need far better than the Turf TV horseracing tracks...
 
From what I've read, is it not the case that turftv will have virtual filth and foreign horse and greyhound racing?
 
Relks - Brian appeared to be suggesting (well, to me anyway) that the likes of Ladbrokes, Corals, Hills would terminate their contracts with Alphameric [those contracts being the EPOS ones as Alphameric would be no use to them in any other capacity] over the row.

I am not missing your point, I just don't agree with you. Still, you can laugh and say "I told you so" as you surely will when it all goes under - as it surely must as you say it will.

Time will tell - things could get interesting.
 
HUNTINGDON was left facing a near £30,000 shortfall in its income on Thursday after its Easter Monday fixture was dropped from the list of meetings that will be screened in betting shops.

With live action from four fixtures guaranteed in shops under the BAGS criteria, the betting industry has opted to show the three scheduled Flat fixtures at Musselburgh, Yarmouth, Warwick, plus jumping from Plumpton - even though the Levy Board-funded criteria meeting at Huntingdon is due to host a more valuable card.

A "very disappointed" Amy Starkey, Huntingdon's managing director, was on Thursday night seeking an explanation for the late switch, but it is being interpreted as a direct snub to the track because of its alignment, as a Racing UK course, with Turf TV, the newly launched service seeking to take on SIS in the provision of betting shop pictures.

John Maxse, director of communications for Jockey Club Racecourses, which owns Huntingdon, said on Thursday: “The decision to drop Huntingdon from Monday'sbetting shop coverage is very disappointing and appears, on the face of it, to be a fairly cynical move by the existing monopoly supplier of betting shop coverage.

"Having significantly increased the prize-money on offer on Monday, Huntingdon had expected to receive the income from the use of their pictures in betting shops. The decision to drop them at this late stage will cost them £30,000."

He added: "The outcome is that the most valuable and competitive Bank Holiday National Hunt card in this country won't now be screened in betting shops.

"It is a move that is likely to have a negative impact on overall turnover on the day and deny the raceday sponsors Betfred valuable exposure. "One might conclude that the incident serves to highlight the case for competition in the market place with regard to the provision of betting shop pictures."

The fact that Betfred are sponsoring Huntingdon's card is a huge irony, given the firm's chairman Fred Done last week invested £8 million to buy a chunk of SIS in a move interpreted as a snub to Turf TV, previously known as Amrac - the company formed by RUK and betting shop services provider Alphameric.

Under the BAGS criteria, betting shops screen three fixtures per afternoon on weekdays, four on Saturdays and bank holidays, and two in the evenings.
When the number of meetings available exceed that criteria, a decision is made as to which are dropped.

The major bookmakers, who are committed to SIS, have already threatened to pull high-profile sponsorship from those racecourses backing Turf TV in the unfolding row over betting shop pictures, and the line-up for Monday's BAGS coverage can be seen as a sign of its support for SIS-aligned tracks.

BAGS general manager Barry Faulkner said:“The industry was consulted and it decided it would rather have Plumpton for the betting shop service.”

Huntingdon's seven-race card has total prize-money of £39,000, while the six races at Plumpton add up to £31,500.
 
Oh well wouldya look at that.....the Nanny have signed to TurfTV. So much for all the so-called "experts" (not necessarily on here) who predicted that they wouldn't last past October....

Does anyone else relish the thought of Fred Done being made to look like an utter nob yet again?? :laughing:

Watch the rest follow the Nanny's lead. The bookmakers need TurfTV and that idea is finally sinking in. Oh, how the many who foretold Amrac's doom must be disappointed as hell. ###### happens fellas - and TurfTV always had a strong hand.

As a matter of interest TDK - yes, TurfTV will cover greyhound racing as well, albeit some fairly dodgy tracks!
 
Ha ha, yes sounds like Bullsh*tter Betfred will have to eat his words...

I'm all for Turf TV if it keeps on showing re-runs of races - not being able to see a re-run is one of the things I find really frustrating in most bookies; if you are watching one horse closely for reasons of connections, affection, or even just punting, then you want to watch the race again afterwards to see what was going on overall
 
excellent news. Now, I hope the levy wont be hit hard by the bookies claiming their extra costs from turf tv.
 
Originally posted by Shadow Leader@Jun 3 2007, 03:39 PM
Oh well wouldya look at that.....the Nanny have signed to TurfTV. So much for all the so-called "experts" (not necessarily on here) who predicted that they wouldn't last past October....

Does anyone else relish the thought of Fred Done being made to look like an utter nob yet again?? :laughing:

Watch the rest follow the Nanny's lead. The bookmakers need TurfTV and that idea is finally sinking in. Oh, how the many who foretold Amrac's doom must be disappointed as hell. ###### happens fellas - and TurfTV always had a strong hand.

As a matter of interest TDK - yes, TurfTV will cover greyhound racing as well, albeit some fairly dodgy tracks!
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I would have thought that the big books will want the pictures next year and will probably have to pay the courses for the pictures from next year. However, I can't see that having two different TV services running in the shops can or will work.

Surely the compromise will be that the bookies will pay up to the racecourse (probably more than they wanted to) but it will have to be for one integrated serviced and not for Turf TV in addition to SIS?

(* NB - this is a personal opinion)

PS - As for Betfred - he looks like an utter nob every day in his racing post advert SL. No big news story there I'm afraid!
 
Personally I'd much rather have separate screens than split screens - you can only watch one race at a time, and a split screen means you can't watch either properly. They drive me utterly bonkers - esp when you can;t see your horse properly because of a load of dogs parading about :angy:
 
I know it's no great story tdk, it just amuses me how he is a consistent Group One performer in the "looking an utter nob" stakes - in fact he looks like an improver too! :D
 
As predicted for the last 9 months or so, it appears that despite making large noises and whining like hell, all the major bookmakers will have signed up to Turf TV or be on the point of doing so by Jan 1st. I'm looking forward to Fred Done losing all his punters through his bloodymindedness, the nob!!!!!!! :laughing:

Now it's time for SiS to drop their prices!!!

Oh, to turn the clock back - so many told me they'd go under by October...

(mind you, the Alphameric organisation side of things could do with pulling their damn fingers out!!)
 
A lot of people said that RUK had no chance of succeeding either - now we can't imagine life without it! I think once Coral succumbed, the others would not be far behind - hope that's the case.

Though it's not going to help the real problem in betting shops now, which is the smoking ban.
My locals used to play host to a lively crowd who all know each other - now they tend to come in, put on their bets, then b*gger off home for a fag. Quite often esp in Hadleigh Laddies, I'm the only punter sitting watching the racing!
 
They were always going to have to subscribe.

Despite what they think about FOBTs, bookies will struggle to survive if only showing shite racing from all weather and gaff tracks.
 
Originally posted by Headstrong@Dec 28 2007, 10:52 PM
My locals used to play host to a lively crowd who all know each other - now they tend to come in, put on their bets, then b*gger off home for a fag.
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Racing should take note. If there was a free racing channel with interactive betting linked to a racing owned bookmaker, maybe they'd skip placing their bets in the high street. Why is it racing put on a glut of sh1t to help the bookmakers attract FOBT fodder.
 
So Shadow Leader was right all along. All she needs now is for Arcalis to win a Champion Hurdle and Ollie Magern a Gold Cup and people on here might start to show her some respect!

I have to say I am surprised, but I blame those nancy boys at Coral for wimping out and making me look silly!

Still, it's a great result for TurfTV and if it benefits racing then it is surely a good thing.
 
ROFPML

Betfred backtrack and join firms in TurfTV discussions



by Bill Barber and Jim Cremin


BETFRED, whose founder Fred Done said a week ago that he had “no intention of signing up to TurfTV”, on Saturday confirmed that they are in talks with the new betting shop pictures service.

Done, who this year invested £8 million of his own money in buying shares in established picturesprovider SIS, has been implacable in his opposition to TurfTV and said in May that he would be “the last one to cave in and sign up for TurfTV”.

However, Coral's decision last weekend to break ranks from the major bookmakers and sign a deal with TurfTV has led to a stampede to the negotiating table by their high-street rivals.

Ladbrokes and William Hill, prompted by the prospect of losing live pictures from 31 of Britain's racecourses from Tuesday, are both in discussions with TurfTV and, for thefirst time on Saturday, Betfred said they were also in talks. A spokesman for Betfred said on Saturday: “Talks are continuing to take place between both parties.”

Independent bookmakers who feared they had been left high and dry by the sudden possibility of an SIS-carried, fully integrated TurfTV/SIS service only appearing in the shops of the major chains, are studying alternatives through a new consortium led by influential and respected independents Chisholms, Corbetts and Better.

In a letter that was being distributed on Saturday, Howard Chisholm told fellow independents: “There are a number of options for the proposed service. It could be a separate channel showing only TurfTV content, it could be based on SIS+ showing some TurfTV content andsome SIS+ content or it could be an upgraded service showing the primary content from both the SIS and TurfTV services.
“At the moment it is too early to say what form this service will take, other than to confirm that it will be delivered via the SIS dish and therefore the need for TurfTV to install an additional dish would disappear. The most that would be required would be the installation of an additional decoder.”

Chisholm asks bookmakers to contact him so that he can gauge support and viability. It would be realistic for him to project a potential take-up of around 1,000 shops, including Northern Ireland bookmakers, and that would put him in a position to strike viable cost-effective deals.

Mark Kingston, chief operating officer of SIS, has confirmed that SIS has the capacity to deliver content to independents in the same way as Coral and Ladbrokes as part of either an integrated or stand-alone service – subject to bookmakers being able to reach a commercial arrangement with TurfTV.

If TurfTV does deal on broadly the same basis as it has with Coral, it effectively means that it has moved on to making SIS the pictures carrier, with TurfTV aiming to be the core picture supplier
 
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