Victor Chandler Chase Upgraded

But does it reduce the chance by much, Gareth? How many enduring weight carrying performances have been seen in the VC Chase in recent years, aside from Well Chief's win and Azertyuiop going down to Isio? The recent trend has been for the decent horses to sidestep the race as they're afraid of trying to give the weight away, especially before Cheltenham has taken place.
 
Throw in Flagship Uberalles running in it off top-weight and that's 3 of the last 5 renewals that have seen a top-weight rated over 165.
 
Flagship Uberalles lost that day to McCoy's sauna exploits the day before so he could make the weight on the winner.

Great performance by Flagship, though.
 
Shaddow like i said if "i had a CC standard chaser" if the horse coudldn't go left handed i would go Haldon Gold Cup, Tingle Creek, Christmas Chase, before looking at a soft group 1 in Ireland.

Having looked at the comment in bold;

I dont see why you should have 4 identicle races in the spare of 6 weeks therefore 1 should just be scrapped. it used to be 5 but for some reason the Castleford was downgraded from Grade 2 status to listed handicap status so the Christmas Chase could be formed. I'm not in agreement of this. 2ndly the Sandown race was used as a substitue at first to the Vc incase it was abandoned, now its been made a permanent race and the Vc has been upgraded. I just dont get the bhb planning.

On a different note i wanna know when the Bhb are gonna put some 7f Group 1 races in the calender for all ages. I'm sick of seeing a number of top class horses that are 7f horses never win a group 1 because they are not quick enough for 6f and dont stay a mile. There are lots of them as well which is why the group 3 and group 2 7f races held at Haydock, Newmarket and Leicester have been top class races for years but have to race for a purse no more than £40,000. I cant see why the Bhb need to play about with races already in place when there is a genuine call for other races.

Finally The Hungerford Stakes has always been a cracking listed / group 3 race at Newbury and has seen Guineas winners line up and horses that have gone on to greatness. Yet insyead of upgrading this to Group 2 or Group 1 they have made it a £10,000 Conditions race open to horses which have never won a Group 1 or 2 or 3 in the past 18 months. Correct me if im wrong but that is a kick in the bollox to a race that many leading tariners liked to target.

Having looked through the Irish Racing Calender i see much more value and much more better graded races. I.e not bias to suit a certain two or three horses. The BHB changed a race at Newbury last year just so Denman could run in it and that annoys me especially when it has been reverted back to its old standing this time around. The Turf Club would never dream of doing this and i think you are much better off taking a horse to Ireland providing its rated over 50, as under 50 you will never get in a race.
 
I would have thought that Newmarket would be very eager to get the Challenge Stakes upgraded to bolster their Champions Day card.
 
Top handicaps are a massive part of the jumping game. Although I agree with SL that it is good to see people "raising the standard of racing", this is not the case here.

Upgrading the VC Chase to a Grade 1 will more than likely mean that we will have another small-field 2m graded chase to watch this year. Raising a grading does not mean raising standards.

However, I think people are forgetting some of the massively valuable handicaps at Ascot such as the 74k pot for the race won by Demi Beau. These should be massive targets for 2 milers.
 
Turns out Victor Chandler himself agrees with those of us who thought it should have stayed a handicap. From the Guardian:

It [the VC Chase] does not appeal to either the bookie or the punter in Chandler. "It will be moving back to a handicap next year," he says, with a tone of complete certainty. "Our arm was twisted to turn it into a Grade One, but it should have remained a handicap, it was always a better race. Just think of those wonderful finishes, with horses like Desert Orchid, and Azertyuiop and Isio."
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There was certainly no tension in the race yesterday, it was a procession and a display not a horse race. He was applauded past the WP as great horses are, but the WR and its terraces were hugely more animated after Lough Derg's win
 
Gareth Flynn said:
I would have thought that Newmarket would be very eager to get the Challenge Stakes upgraded to bolster their Champions Day card.
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Certainly they would. The proximity to the Foret has always put me off this idea though. I would see something like the July Meeting or Glorious Goodwood as more appropriate timing-wise.
 
So the BHA state that the Victor Chandler will remain a Grade 1 in perpetuity. They might care to start looking for a new sponsor, then. Certainly, if I was Victor, I'd be looking to find another event to lend my name to which was slightly more likely to give me a return. The notion that we need a mid season championship for two milers is a joke since the division has never in its history been truly competitive in terms of numbers. It's also worth remembering that when Master Minded lines up to defend his crown, he will still be more than a month shy of his sixth birthday.
 
rorydelargy said:
So the BHA state that the Victor Chandler will remain a Grade 1 in perpetuity. They might care to start looking for a new sponsor, then. Certainly, if I was Victor, I'd be looking to find another event to lend my name to which was slightly more likely to give me a return. The notion that we need a mid season championship for two milers is a joke since the division has never in its history been truly competitive in terms of numbers. It's also worth remembering that when Master Minded lines up to defend his crown, he will still be more than a month shy of his sixth birthday.
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It is a farce that they have done this to a great contest.

I have great memories of Desert Orchid's win, Flagship Uberalles battle with Nordance Prince, Well Chief and Azertyuiop. Not to mention Sybillin getting me back in the black during my first year at college.

Some great races and terrific finishes have been given to us by this race and it should be returned to the limited handicap that was the basis for these thrills. We already have the Tingle Creek, Game Spirit in the UK and races such as the Dial a Bet, Tied Cottage in Ireland for the 2milers. The Champion Chase should be the race when they all meet and the VC will never attract a field in the middle of January that could be considered championship material.
 
I moved back to London over 4 years ago with very little spare money (rent, deposit and length of time to first payslip meant things were very tight). Well Chief was my favourite horse at the time, and I remember him drifting out to 5/1 on the day (from 2's I think). I could only afford the sum of £3 on him and was never happier than when he won. A copy of the front page of the following day's racing post stayed on my wall for a year.

To think that we'll never see the likes of that in the VC again is not good enough, and all because the powers that be think we need another graded chase for two milers, a division which has rarely been overstocked. At present, we have the tingle creek, desert orchid chase, game spirit, QMCC, Celebration chase and I'm sure i'm forgetting some others. It's completely unnecessary and shows just how out of touch the BHA.
 
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Ahhh Sybillin winning The Victor Chandler :<3: a mighty performance from a novice. Sent to The Arkle Odds on, he was over the top by then and ran flat, but a great season for a novice he had.

Ask Tom winning a diverted-to-Kempton renewal is another good memory for me.

The race should of course revert to its handicap status. There is no need for another grade 1 in any division only a month since the previous race of that level. Each chase and hurdle division including separate divisions for novices should have two grade ones, one mid-season and the other at the season climax. These should be interspersed with grade2s and limited handicap grade3s. Its not difficult and it works.

There is no point sticking in extra grade1s.

Upgrading of races based on the quality of previous winners is meaningless and does not improve the pattern. It should not be treated like some football league relegation/promotion battle. There have been several instances of this on the flat in recent seasons.

Upgrading a race from group2 because this won it and that won it is irrelevant and destroys the pattern from its roots in meritocracy. For the pattern to mean something then group and grade 1 races should be hard to attain, not cheaply won here there and everywhere. ( I nearly put ' like Beef Or Salmon did' but that would be just rude!)
 
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Victor won't take any decision to leave it as a Grade One lying down, that's for sure.

As Rory pointed out, if the BHA are that set on leaving the race as it is now, they will have to look for another sponsor for the race, simple as that. He's not one to be told what to do is Victor.
 
uncle goober said:
The race should of course revert to its handicap status. There is no need for another grade 1 in any division only a month since the previous race of that level. Each chase and hurdle division including separate divisions for novices should have two grade ones, one mid-season and the other at the season climax. These should be interspersed with grade2s and limited handicap grade3s. Its not difficult and it works.

There is no point sticking in extra grade1s.

Upgrading of races based on the quality of previous winners is meaningless and does not improve the pattern. It should not be treated like some football league relegation/promotion battle. There have been several instances of this on the flat in recent seasons.
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I agree emphatically with this. If the RP had it's act together, it's issues like this it should be driving, not campaigning to have more racing on a substandard channel.
 
simmo said:
Certainly they would. The proximity to the Foret has always put me off this idea though. I would see something like the July Meeting or Glorious Goodwood as more appropriate timing-wise.
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The Lennox Stakes looks a natural candidate. Timing suits and previous winners (arguably) justify an upgrade.

It's a fairly new race though (less than 20 years old I believe) - anybody know whether this will hinder its prospects of an upgrade?
 
The Lennox Stakes is the old Beeswing Stakes moved from Newcastle, not sure, maybe 8 years ago or something.

The seven furlong division has always been undersold. The traditional route for a seven furlong horse was ( after failing to stay in all the Guineas)

Jersey ( unless still insisting on the St James Palace )

Criterion Stakes gp3, Newmarket , end of june
Beeswing Stakes gp3, Newcastle, end of july
Hungerford Stakes gp3, Newbury, mid august
Kiveton Park Stakes gp3/2? Doncaster, mid sep
Challenge Stakes gp3 Newmarket October
and FINALLY the GROUP 1 Prix Foret in France which used to be a couple of weeks after the Arc meeting.

It was very hard for a good seven furlong horse to win a group 1. A horse like Salse could win nearly all of those and not get a chance at a group1 without going to a mile, which wasnt his best trip, fortunately he lasted a long season to win the Foret too.

The Lennox( beeswing) should be group1 and the maybe the Challenge in October unless there is a major problem with the Foret being a group1 clash.
 
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