Waley-Cohen suspended again

SteveM

SteveM

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Sam Waley-Cohen picked up another suspension at Taunton today, his third in less than a month = 12 + 3 + 3
 
Very average amateur jockey imo. He wouldn't win half the races he's 'won' other than being up on good horses trained to the minute by the big yards in England. I wonder how many winners he'd get on the Irish P2P circuit?
 
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Waley-Cohen certainly fouled up at Fakenham (on 2 fronts), but the criticism of him is generally misinformed. He's a top-notch amateur, and since looking nervous in the early days of his partnership with Long Run, has done nothing at all wrong. The horse has his flaws, as he's shown throughout his time at Seven Barrows, and calls to replace the jockey are pointless, and merely detract from the main issue. Have a look at last year's Gold Cup - Long Run off the bridle well before Denman and Kauto Star, and well handled to win, as were Sam's previous Festival winners Liberthine and Tricky Trickster, neither of whom looked outstanding contenders prior to their races.
 
I can think of at least 20 better amateurs than him in Ireland alone. Top notch he is not in my book anyway, although I respect your opinion Rory.
 
No offence intended Trefflich - anyone who makes an opinion on what they witness is entitled to their view, and I respect yours as so expressed. In my experience, most critics merely latch onto his status as an amateur (in the traditional, corinthian sense) whenever Long Run loses, without any analysis whatsoever. His record over fences at Cheltenham and Aintree, taken in proper context, show him to be a very able rider. He is NOT the reason why Long Run has been beaten this season, and he probably won't be to blame if the horse again fails in March.
 
rorydelargy said:
No offence intended Trefflich - anyone who makes an opinion on what they witness is entitled to their view, and I respect yours as so expressed. In my experience, most critics merely latch onto his status as an amateur (in the traditional, corinthian sense) whenever Long Run loses, without any analysis whatsoever. His record over fences at Cheltenham and Aintree, taken in proper context, show him to be a very able rider. He is NOT the reason why Long Run has been beaten this season, and he probably won't be to blame if the horse again fails in March.
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SWC has zero wins this season.

Claiming that SWC is anywhere near as good as Choc or Ruby is crazy*.

He is a dentist with less than 100 races under rules in the last 5 years. How can he compete with McCoy, Johnson, Walsh etc. who have 100 per month?

Unless we are saying that jockeyship isn't a skill?

* I know you are not saying this. But he is definitely a negative for any horse relative to these.
 
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I've got no financial interest in any horse for the GC and whether SWC rides really does not interest me.

Whether you are an amateur or a pro, confidence in your ability is paramount and with so few rides let alone winners, you would have to be concerned.

He rode 5 winners from 7 rides before last years Gold Cup and I'd imagine there will be some entries made by the family and trainer with regard to get a few winners.

The media gaze will only get stronger, but I've got no doubt he will keep the ride unless he offers to stand down, possibly if he's still struggling to get any winners.
 
For my part I believe he rides his own horses well enough, indeed very competently (although this is a long way from saying he is the best amateur rider I've seen). But I can't believe chances would not be enhanced by using a professional when the need arises.
 
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I'm more with Bar than Rory on this one, at least where Long Run is concerned. Whilst he continues to ride that horse against top class professionals in races where he cannot claim his allowance, I can only see his appearance on the horse as a negative. I certainly don't blame Waley-Cohen for the ride in the Betfair, but I think it's very brave to suggest with certainty that had the jockeys been switched in the King George, then the result would have been the same regardless.

I do think Rory's wider point is a fair one mind, and in terms of amateur riders, Waley-Cohen is one of the best on in Britain.
 
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Agree with DJ's view. Waley Cohen is a decent amateur but against the top boys he has to go down as a negative when riding without his claim. If Geraghty was riding on Gold cup day I would be far more inclined to back Long Run....
 
SWC isn't Ruby - of course he isn't but those blaming SWC for Long Run's defeats this season are clutching at straws and are probably the same people praising him to the skies for his rides on the horse last year - when it won.
 
Very average amateur jockey imo. He wouldn't win half the races he's 'won' other than being up on good horses trained to the minute by the big yards in England
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without the support of nicholls and mullins i would doubt if ruby would have won half the big races he has won.

i agree with rory and ardross on this its not the jockey at fault its the horses jumping technique he never looks like falling but obviously dosnt enjoy jumping as much as he should.

maybe Katos time in top 2 mile chases taught him to jump that much better at speed than the average 3 mile chaser
 
prince regent said:
without the support of nicholls and mullins i would doubt if ruby would have won half the big races he has won.
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Good point Prince, I see the error of my ways. I'm not comparing SWC to any professional jock, that's like comparing a kid who scores a hat trick in the park to Wayne Rooney. Ruby has got where he is through pure graft and talent alone. Waley Cohen's wins have by and large been on horses with a distinct advantage (training or talent) over their respective fields. A few notable exceptions no doubt but I can think of at least 10 ameteurs who I'd much rather put up on a horse in any race.

Have a look at Time for Spring's run yesterday, he made a few Long Run type jumping blunders imo. Coincidence...I think not.
 
it could be argued that he did a worse job last season if someone wanted to blame jumping errors on the jockey..the same horse won a KG and GC with this jockey..and now the same combination have been beaten twice by one of the best chasers of all time..can't see a problem mesen..just met a better horse on both days..whereas last year KS was only firing on 3 cylinders
 
trefflich said:
In no specific order:

D O'Connor, MP Fogarty, JT Carroll, JJ Codd, B O'Neill, N Carberry, K Walsh, DL Queally, JT McNamara, R Burton, JP McKeown, MJ O'Hare
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You could have a point with the first named, but the rest is a simple no for me. Queally is one of the worst jockeys I've seen in my life, he's not even competent.
 
Hamm said:
You could have a point with the first named, but the rest is a simple no for me. Queally is one of the worst jockeys I've seen in my life, he's not even competent.
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Some excellent pilots in this list that you are discarding!
Although achievements on the point to point field tell a different story the first mentioned is in my opinion not the best of them!
 
is just saying X is the best proving anything though?..how are these judgements formed..on a couple of rides?

anyone can say x is better than y..it doesn't really mean anything without some kind of reasoning
 
EC1 said:
is just saying X is the best proving anything though?..how are these judgements formed..on a couple of rides?

anyone can say x is better than y..it doesn't really mean anything without some kind of reasoning
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It's not a quantitive thing EC. I know that you are of the opinion they are all much of a muchness but to my eye McNamara rides his horses as strongly as any professional, always finds the best position throughout his races and his feedback is second to none. He schools alot of the good horses on the Curragh and I know some of the trainers he schools for hang off his every word. He would be a very decent professional bur for height and thus weight issues but has carved a very good niche for himself.
It is a game of guessers and opinions anyway isn't it....:D
 
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