Was the Charlie Hall one and a half furlongs short ?

Wetherby times have been up the chute ever since the course was shortened to make room for a wider A1, and it begs the question - was it accurately re-measured then?
 
Heard tem talking about it on TFRadio but can't remember what they said exactly...........something about the new way they start and when they start the clock all times will now be quicker
 
no its not that that has caused this at Wetherby..have you read the link above?..it clearly shows the distance to be completely wrong

you are right about the times at all courses being quicker..with them timing from when they pass the tape
 
I do wonder how bloody incompetant you need to be before you can get a job in racing?

The error is massive the reason for it coming into being in the first place bewildering, and the refusal for years by the BHA or Wetherby to do anything about it when speed raters were first flagging just smacks of the usual arrogance and disdain that this dying sport treats its customers with. A cursory play on googleearth could have solved this for them inside 15 minutes (that's all it would take). It beggars belief that it's taken weeks and many meetings, and then you look at findings and its really a case of no one culpable.

This is so basic its embarrasing

1: We used a new course because of waterlogging in 2009
2: Everyone agreed that the new configuration was better
3: So we kept the new configuration

Q: Surely to God it must have occurred to someone at Wetherby that the distances would be wrong now? Even when it was flagged by private investigators did someone not perhaps think, "oh haven't we altered the course though?"

When novice chasers are breaking 2 mile track records on soft ground, there's a kind of clue in there somewhere. I'm trying to imagine how long it would take a golf course to latch onto the fact that the yardage books and tees were wrong by as little as 5yds?

Mind you, Wetherby and Haydock are one thing, what about those distances you routinely see wrong in Ireland every week? They're on a different planet
 
tiggers1972 said:
I take it the Clerk of the Course is now unemployed?
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No. It's no ones fault apparently, but the BHA "acknowledge their responsibility"
The BHA are hardly going to sack themselves, but it just smacks of the total disdain that racing treats its customers with
 
The revelation that the BHA are complacent isn't exactly news to anyone's ears, but this might be

"The 3m1f hurdle distance, over which Cole Harden won theWest Yorkshire Hurdle on the same card, was found to be 38 yards longer than the maximum permitted for a jumps race to be officially described as "three miles about 1 furlong" and the start will now be moved forward 125 yards."

err.... so a horse who will be a 6yo come the festival has broken a course record at a distance riding 38yds longer. Through Medinas he's just 10L's off More of That on a collateral line and seemingly only likely to improve. If you wanted to be naughty (and inaccurate I suspect) you could use Fishers Cross! :whistle:

I am left wondering how good Beat That could be though
 
I'm still waiting for the announcement:

Following the inaccuracies recently discovered in actual race distances at Wetherby, the BHA has commissioned the re-measurement of all race distances at all UK tracks.

I reckon I shall still be waiting this time ten years hence.
 
Warbler said:
The revelation that the BHA are complacent isn't exactly news to anyone's ears, but this might be

"The 3m1f hurdle distance, over which Cole Harden won theWest Yorkshire Hurdle on the same card, was found to be 38 yards longer than the maximum permitted for a jumps race to be officially described as "three miles about 1 furlong" and the start will now be moved forward 125 yards."

err.... so a horse who will be a 6yo come the festival has broken a course record at a distance riding 38yds longer. Through Medinas he's just 10L's off More of That on a collateral line and seemingly only likely to improve. If you wanted to be naughty (and inaccurate I suspect) you could use Fishers Cross! :whistle:

I am left wondering how good Beat That could be though
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Don't forget though, the course has gone through major alterations, and I'm not sure the c and d record would have taken too much beating.

That said you couldn't fail to be taken with Cole Harden. Whether he goes well in the World Hurdle or not, he'll make a really nice staying novice chaser next season.
 
Cracking interview of Jamie Stier on CH4.
Assured us that they dealt with the Wetherby fiasco immediately the problem was brought to their attention, as they always try to do.
Pity Nick Luck was so ill-informed as not to mention the Betfair Chase (from almost a year ago). :lol:
 
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People have been flagging this for years (as they have Haydock) and the BHA sit around like lumps on a log. It would take 15 mins on Googleearth to get a decent feel for it. It doesn't require "meetings". To be honest, the course should do it anyway, it shouldn't even require the BHA to intervene. I'm reminded of Dave Edwards waging a campaign against Kempton for about 3 months every week when they first went all weather (got a feeling he had Hamilton in his sites too). Anyway, because Edwards has a racing media profile, sheer bloody persistance eventually prevailed. Kempton was remeasured and Edwards was pretty well vindicated. It transpired that Kempton were wrong albeit the BHA were claiming some kind of vindication too because one of their distances was within the margin of error of something like 120yds

This margin of error is a bloody farce though. Look, in the week when the Jarmans land a probe onto an icey comet hurtling around at 40,000mph the bloody British can't even measure a racecourse, and the BHA require a margin of error of 120yds. The Channel Tunnel worked on 1mm or something ridiculous
 
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Members EC1 and reet hard have been 'on it' regarding race-distances, since at-least last year's Betfair Chase.....and probably even before that, given both are prone to mincing about with Flat races.

Nevertheless......these GROSSLY dubious tendencies aside, the pair of them have long-since pursued an agenda which 'went viral' with Simon Rowland's TF blog about Wetherby, and the snowball-effect is one that should benefit anyone betting on NH meetings jn future.

It's edifying that the research and opinions expressed on pages such as these, align so closely with the professional analysis undertaken by Prufrock. It reflects very-well on both EC and reet, imo (couple of sand-dancing poofs that they are).

:D
 
Grasshopper said:
Members EC1 and reet hard have been 'on it' regarding race-distances, since at-least last year's Betfair Chase.....and probably even before that, given both are prone to mincing about with Flat races.

Nevertheless......these GROSSLY dubious tendencies aside, the pair of them have long-since pursued an agenda which 'went viral' with Simon Rowland's TF blog about Wetherby, and the snowball-effect is one that should benefit anyone betting on NH meetings jn future.

It's edifying that the research and opinions expressed on pages such as these, align so closely with the professional analysis undertaken by Prufrock. It reflects very-well on both EC and reet, imo (couple of sand-dancing poofs that they are).

:D
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Recognition at last; albeit from the forum numpty. :D
Keep your fingers crossed that the Sun turns today's PP into the flat race that you hate so much.
 
From the BBC website

[h=1]Grand National: Official distance 'cut' by furlong after remeasure[/h]
The official distance of the Grand National has been reduced by a furlong after new measurements of racecourses.
Dozens of tracks will be re-classified from 1 June after it was revealed the published distance of a big race at Wetherby was 78 yards short.
The new method replaces a surveyor's wheel in the mid-point of the course with a more accurate assessment two yards outside the inner rail position.
Courses will also be described in yards as well as the nearest half-furlong.
Horses will still travel the same distance but the move by the British Horseracing Authority and the Racecourse Association has been introduced to give racegoers more accurate information.
Previously, the Grand National was advertised as four miles three-and-a-half furlongs, but this has now been reduced by a furlong.
It is now advertised as four miles, two furlongs and 74 yards.
Thirty-five courses including Aintree, Ascot, Cheltenham, Chepstow, Haydock and Sandown will have published distances shortened.
Kempton Park is one of four courses where traditional distances will remain unchanged, while Wetherby is yet to conclude its survey because of its schedule.
In some cases, start lines will be moved but those courses that cannot do so will be given special dispensation to run races under the minimum distance of two miles.
Full details will be published in the Racing Calendar on Thursday.
BHA director Jamie Stier said: "This new methodology will improve the quality and quantity of data we provide our participants and the increased accuracy will be of benefit to trainers, jockeys, owners and betting customers."
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In some cases, start lines will be moved but those courses that cannot do so will be given special dispensation to run races under the minimum distance of two miles.
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Haydock's 3m 1f Chase start is moved at will, and has had at least 3 different positions in the past 2 years. :D
 
KEVIN BLAKE'S BLOG (19 MAY)
19 May 2015

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ARTICLE OPTIONS


Focus Shifts To Inaccurate Irish Race Distances

Earlier this month, the British Horseracing Authority made the latest in what have been a series of changes in the last 18 months to the ways in which they record and report race distances in jump racing in Great Britain.

In addition to numerous re-measurements of individual tracks in that time, last year they made it mandatory for all flat tracks to measure and report the exact distance that all races would be run over after necessary running rail and starting stall movements had been undertaken.

The most recent change saw them finally change their inappropriate National Hunt track measuring methodology, which involved measuring the distances around the mid-point of the track, to the much more realistic practice of measuring them on a line two yards out from the inside rail and reporting the results to the exact yard. These new measurements have revealed that 11 jump tracks have been running races short of two miles for decades and perhaps most notably, the distance of the world's most famous race, the Aintree Grand National, will now be officially shortened by over a furlong to more accurately reflect the real distance of the race.

While the BHA have attempted to dress these changes up as a self-driven initiative, have no doubt that they were very much brought about by the excellent work of Simon Rowlands and Timeform in uncovering the litany of absurd inaccuracies in race distances around the country.

The embarrassing reality of what had been going on for decades went around the racing world when their exposé of wildly inaccurate race distances at Wetherby late last year came to widespread attention. The most notable finding in that case was that the high-profile Charlie Hall Chase had been run over a trip just short of one-and-a-half furlongs shorter than advertised. It was this case, coupled with previous Timeform exposés of inaccurate distances at Lingfield and Haydock, as well as their statement that they had uncovered numerous other significant distance discrepancies around the country that they would reveal in due course, that seemingly shamed the BHA into action

These developments have been a source of great personal satisfaction for me, as I have been banging the same drum with regard to Irish racing for many years now. The problem with this issue in Irish racing is that every official race distance is preceded with the word "about" which essentially allows racecourses to run their races over any distance they like without being obliged to report it. Not only does this unprofessional and unsatisfactory practice make any sort of time-based analysis in Irish racing almost completely pointless, it is both misleading and unfair to both public and professional participants in Irish racing. Horse racing is a sport that millions of Euro are won and lost by millimetres, yet the Turf Club are effectively allowing distance discrepancies of comparatively monumental proportions to go unreported on a regular basis. In recent years, I have uncovered some horrendous inaccuracies in race distances at Irish tracks in the international press, but the Turf Club has of yet taken no direct action to remedy the situation.

The frustrating thing is that solution is very simple. By all means, allow racecourses and the clerks of the courses to make all the rail and starting stall adjustments necessary to provide the best and safest track possible; that is always the priority. But when the track is laid out, send an official out prior to racing to measure the exact distance the races will be run over using a universal measuring tool and methodology and publicly disclose the results. Getting the distance as close to the official trip should always be the aim, but it isn't the end of the world if it has to be 10, 20 or 50 yards too long or short, as long as that fact is made public, so that everyone can make appropriate adjustments to calculations. It really isn't a difficult issue to get right.

While the Turf Club has of yet failed to take nationwide action on the issue, it has been encouraging to see some individual tracks and clerks of the courses taking matters into their own hands of late. For example, some will have noticed that Roscommon raced over "One mile, two furlongs and eighty yards" on Monday evening to more accurately reflect the distance raced over, having previously run the same races over "One mile and two furlongs." Word also reaches me that other Irish tracks have been re-measured and the results will become clear in the coming weeks and months.

However, it is unsatisfactory that the accuracy of race distances should be dictated by the professionalism and rigour of individual racecourses and/or clerks of the courses. Such is the importance of the issue, it should be dealt with on an industry-wide basis by the Turf Club so that every track is operating to the same standard.

Given the lack of action taken thus far despite numerous distance discrepancies being pointed out in the national press by myself and others, I fear that the only thing that will push the Turf Club into action is an even more significant public shaming on the matter. Word reaches me that an all-encompassing investigation by a major racing publication into inaccurate race distances in Irish racing is well underway and the results, including some particularly alarming findings at some of the biggest tracks in the country, will begin to be drip fed to the public in the near future.

As an ardent supporter and believer in Irish racing, it will be sad to see a spotlight shone on such shortcomings in this way, but if that's what it takes to stimulate positive change in the industry, then it is a price worth paying. I can only hope that the Turf Club finally sorts this issue out under their own steam before it comes to that.

Right now, the Turf Club has no protocol in place for how a track should be measured and what measuring tool should be used. This offers them the opportunity to implement a new standard methodology and re-measure all the tracks/race distances en masse, which will save individual tracks the potential embarrassment of being singled out for individual attention.

Now is the time to act, for the good of Irish racing.
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