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What would you do to the Cheltenham Festival's racing programme ?

A

Ardross

Senior Jockey
Joined
Aug 8, 2007
Messages
5,614
As much as many of us might hanker for 3 days - it ain't going to happen nor is Saturday likely due to lost income from hospitality .

So if you have to have 4 days 28 races what changes would you make

I would

1. Make the NH Chase the 4 miler again ( it was only reduced in length due to amateurs not pulling their horses up when they should have done - that is still going on - Tom Hutsby got 10 days after the Foxhunters - he should have got 30 .

2 Change the programme thus
TUES
Supreme
Arkle
Ultima
Albert Bartlett ( too grim and gruelling on the New Course)
Champion Hurdle
Mares Chase
Fred Winter

WED
Baring Bingham
Broadway
Coral Cup
Plate
Champion Chase
NH Chase
Bumper

THURS

XX Country
Jack Richards
Pertemps
Ryanair
Stayers
Foxhunters ( i think the jockeys get over excited after the Gold Cup )
Mares Novice Hurdle

FRIDAY
Triumph
Martin Pipe
Mares Hurdle ( Patrick Mullins made a good point about trainers being desperate to have a winner on the first day encouraging them to go for the Mares )
Gold Cup
Kim Muir ( tends to be more experienced amateurs)
Grand Annual
County Hurdle
 
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The Jockey Club owns all three of the tracks staging big spring festivals in Britain, Cheltenham, Aintree and Sandown. It should take advantage of this to rebalance the programme.

The Mares Hurdle could be moved out of Cheltenham, probably to Sandown. It would function there as a consolation race for mares not quite up to competing in open Grade 1s, which is as it should be.

JP’s suggestion to reduce maximum field sizes in the handicaps by four should be taken seriously. It would make the run-up to Cheltenham more competitive and force connections to reveal more of their hands in order to be sure of getting into races.
 
I think the number of races a novice needs to have run in could perhaps do with exceptions - so a horse that can jump and has shown their hand like Joyeuse could run at the Festival. So perhaps if they have already run in a premier handicap like the William Hill Hurdle, the Greatwood or the Ladbroke they could run.
 
Grey said:
The Jockey Club owns all three of the tracks staging big spring festivals in Britain, Cheltenham, Aintree and Sandown. It should take advantage of this to rebalance the programme.

The Mares Hurdle could be moved out of Cheltenham, probably to Sandown. It would function there as a consolation race for mares not quite up to competing in open Grade 1s, which is as it should be.

JP’s suggestion to reduce maximum field sizes in the handicaps by four should be taken seriously. It would make the run-up to Cheltenham more competitive and force connections to reveal more of their hands in order to be sure of getting into races.
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I can see very good reasons for moving both the Mares Hurdle and Chase away from the Festival but cannot see it happening.
 
They created and invested a fair amount of effort and money in the mares programme to improve the breed by having more race-hardened broodmares. With my breeder's hat on I can see that it takes just as much time, effort and money to breed a filly as a colt but the comparative rewards, both in the sales ring and racing, were previously just not equitable. No-one has suggested binning/downgrading the Oaks to get the best fillies in the Derby and I would be strongly against reducing the status of the races for mares or taking them out of the Festival. However, I can see a case for changing the distances if you're breeding for hardiness. Having the Mares Novice at 2m4f (and no 4yos) and the Mares Hurdle at 2m6f or even 3m would be a step in the right direction. Moving the Mares Hurdle to the New Course makes sense.

Novices handicaps don't really belong at an Olympics because even the handicapper is only guessing. In particular, the Fred Winter has taken away from the Triumph. Failed flat horses should find another venue. Physiologically speaking, I'm not convinced that 3yos should be sent over jumps at all but, again, from the breeding point of view, I can understand why breeders like an early return on their NH breds similar to their counterparts in France.
 
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I have always liked the Fred Winter has taken a lot of the chaff out of the Triumph that used to ake that race a bit of a lottery.
 
The County used to be the final race of the meeting on the Thursday but for me it's too important to be stuck out there. It's one of the races I most look forward to of the entire week.

I wouldn't be against having all the 2m hurdles races on the one day but that would never happen either, eg:

Tuesday:

Triumph
Supreme
Champion
County
Fred Winter
X-country
Bumper
 
Oh, and surely it isn't beyond their intellectual capacity to sort out the starts.

Don't have them come in from so far away - maximum 75yds, with two people holding a tape across the track and walking in behind the horses, and where they've been coming to the start from round a bend (drives me round it) just draw a tape in a straight line to cut off the bend and have them start that bit closer. There's plenty of room for them to do it.
 
Ardross said:
As much as many of us might hanker for 3 days - it ain't going to happen nor is Saturday likely due to lost income from hospitality .

So if you have to have 4 days 28 races what changes would you make

I would

1. Make the NH Chase the 4 miler again ( it was only reduced in length due to amateurs not pulling their horses up when they should have done - that is still going on - Tom Hutsby got 10 days after the Foxhunters - he should have got 30 .

2 Change the programme thus
TUES
Supreme
Arkle
Ultima
Albert Bartlett ( too grim and gruelling on the New Course)
Champion Hurdle
Mares Chase
Fred Winter

WED
Baring Bingham
Broadway
Coral Cup
Plate
Champion Chase
NH Chase
Bumper

THURS

XX Country
Jack Richards
Pertemps
Ryanair
Stayers
Foxhunters ( i think the jockeys get over excited after the Gold Cup )
Mares Novice Hurdle

FRIDAY
Triumph
Martin Pipe
Mares Hurdle ( Patrick Mullins made a good point about trainers being desperate to have a winner on the first day encouraging them to go for the Mares )
Gold Cup
Kim Muir ( tends to be more experienced amateurs)
Grand Annual
County Hurdle
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I’d also prefer 3 days, but agree it isn’t going to happen.

I’d get the 3 worst races (for me, that would be a contest between 3 mares races, Bumper, X Country and Foxhunters) as the last race on the first 3 days, so people can at least go home early if race is not for them. On the Friday though, I think a cracking race to end the meeting would be ideal. Personally, County Hurdle would be OK, but this year’s race was the worst I can ever remember. Elsewhere, JP McManus’s idea of reduced fields in Cheltenham Handicaps has been given a positive mention. I think it is a terrible idea and the turnout of only 16 in this year’s County highlights that to me (the good prize money elsewhere at Kelso just before the festival may have affected the turnout here). While JP’s idea may be intended for the good of racing, I’m sure he’d end up with a healthy proportion of each handicap field anyway. I also don’t see a reduction in field size making any significant impact on horses showing their true ability pre-Cheltenham to get into these races - it could even make things worse overall, as trainers look at targets elsewhere instead. The increase in qualifying criteria has already addressed this issue well anyway. I’d have a look at being more strict with French Racing marks too, as I think being too harsh, is a better option than being too lenient with an unknown horse.

I would also caution, using the Grand National as an example, that making too many changes at once, without leaving time to evaluate the benefit of each one individually, can devalue the whole. Over the last few years, although some good changes have been made, I think overall, the race, at least for a time, became more dangerous, by making the fences too easy and thereby increasing the pace of the race. I don’t enjoy the race as I once did anyway, but maybe that is me getting old (and from having a good record in the race, to not having a winner since Neptunes Collonges in 2012).
 
I would have a win and you're in series of races for all categories, giving automatic places to previous race winners.
The situation a few years ago when Salsify, a dual Foxhunter's victor was not qualified to run in the race was farcical.
Irish Angle in RP today wrote that Triumph Hurdle runners should have at least one NH run worth considering.
Mares races need to stay at The Festival but somehow penalise previous winners to encourage them to all sex Grade 1 races instead ?
Agree with DO on the starting procedure, having written something along those lines already.
Starting races around a bend is rarely a good idea, it contributed to J T McNamara's fall c12 years ago if memory recalls.
 
Desert Orchid said:
By what criteria, Mr W?
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The number of runners (16) was the lowest I can ever recall - I know there were only 17 the previous year, but there were 6 withdrawals on the day then because of the ground. Prior to that it is race that pretty much always fills. I just like a lot of runners in these big handicaps.

When I looked at the race, I was just disappointed that it did not look nearly as competitive as usual. I shouldn’t complain but I could only see 2 likely winners (finished 1st and 3rd - but we’re 1st and 2nd favourites) and most contenders seemed to have no chance at all. In races like those, I am always looking for plots amongst longer priced horses (such as when Belfast Banter won a few years ago) and they weren’t any candidates this time. It was a bit like the year State Man won - but 26 ran then and it was a strong race outside of him. Kargese is pretty classy and well above the mark she could run off here.
 
archie said:
They created and invested a fair amount of effort and money in the mares programme to improve the breed by having more race-hardened broodmares. With my breeder's hat on I can see that it takes just as much time, effort and money to breed a filly as a colt but the comparative rewards, both in the sales ring and racing, were previously just not equitable. No-one has suggested binning/downgrading the Oaks to get the best fillies in the Derby and I would be strongly against reducing the status of the races for mares or taking them out of the Festival. However, I can see a case for changing the distances if you're breeding for hardiness. Having the Mares Novice at 2m4f (and no 4yos) and the Mares Hurdle at 2m6f or even 3m would be a step in the right direction. Moving the Mares Hurdle to the New Course makes sense.
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Finally someone talking sense about the mares programme. spot on.
 
I fully support the expanded programme for fillies and mares. The syndicate I’m part of would scarcely exist without it.

But the Mares Hurdle is taking too many viable runners out of the Champion Hurdle. Stage a Grade 2 mares hurdle at the festival and a Grade 1 race at Sandown.
 
Mr Whatoxo said:
The number of runners (16) was the lowest I can ever recall - I know there were only 17 the previous year, but there were 6 withdrawals on the day then because of the ground. Prior to that it is race that pretty much always fills. I just like a lot of runners in these big handicaps.

When I looked at the race, I was just disappointed that it did not look nearly as competitive as usual. I shouldn’t complain but I could only see 2 likely winners (finished 1st and 3rd - but we’re 1st and 2nd favourites) and most contenders seemed to have no chance at all. In races like those, I am always looking for plots amongst longer priced horses (such as when Belfast Banter won a few years ago) and they weren’t any candidates this time. It was a bit like the year State Man won - but 26 ran then and it was a strong race outside of him. Kargese is pretty classy and well above the mark she could run off here.
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Well, take out the two oldest runners (one 10yo, one 8yo) and the rest were first- or second-season novices who had probably been plotted up for a year.

I think what it lacked in numbers it more than made up for in potential and intrigue.

But I suppose the real litmus test is the extent to which they go on to frank the form.
 
They won't unless the novice mid distance separation continues but take away the ryanair and the QM becomes a more attractive race

In saying all that, I don't like grade 1 races bring replaced by handicaps
 
The Festival should be for Champions. The winner of races like the Martin Pipe are not Champions.
I would move all the handicaps like the Coral Cup to a separate day and have only a 3 Day Festival Called the Festival of Champions....the Others i would run under the banner of Festival future Stars
 
LUKE said:
The Fred Winter should be binned -it absolutely does not belong at the festival.
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The race was First run in 2005 and Jazzy Matty is the only winner to come back and win at the festival.Most previous winners have sunk without trace.
I can only think of one other 4yo handicap hurdle -the Free Handicap which was historically run at Chelstow in October.There is a big difference between Chepstow in October and the festival.
 
As Tan said earlier Cheltenham should be all about Champions and testing the best against the best to crown them. The Olympic Games of our sport. Never happen, though - not while racing is in thrall to the bookies.
 
Tanlic said:
The Festival should be for Champions. The winner of races like the Martin Pipe are not Champions.
I would move all the handicaps like the Coral Cup to a separate day and have only a 3 Day Festival Called the Festival of Champions....the Others i would run under the banner of Festival future Stars
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Good idea! Fuck the likes of Lucinda Russel, Rebecca Curtis, Oliver Greenall. Paul Nolan, Cian Collins et all lets make it a festival for more Willie Mullins, Gordon Elliots and Dan Skelton winners.

The festival is not and should not be solely about Champions, it is a festival for celebrating NH racing. Handicaps, juveniles, mares, cross country etc are all a massive part of NH racing.

Royal Ascot has 12 Handicaps and I don't hear anyone complaining.
 
Beef or Salmon said:
Good idea! Fuck the likes of Lucinda Russel, Rebecca Curtis, Oliver Greenall. Paul Nolan, Cian Collins et all lets make it a festival for more Willie Mullins, Gordon Elliots and Dan Skelton winners.

The festival is not and should not be solely about Champions, it is a festival for celebrating NH racing. Handicaps, juveniles, mares, cross country etc are all a massive part of NH racing.

Royal Ascot has 12 Handicaps and I don't hear anyone complaining.
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How many juvenile handicap hurdles are run away from Cheltenham.
 


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