When should you draw a line

I see RINGSEND ROSE is an owner/trainer combo, which would make the post-race discussion rather interesting! "Okay, Mr Sadik, do you think she's worth another try?" "Well, frankly, Mr Sadik, she's not much good, but she helps to keep my trainer's permit valid!"


Given the catharsis that continuing to tend to racehorses, getting to meetings and being among people has continued to offer Aytach "Jeff" Sadik since his son and heir Cengiz "Gus" Sadik committed suicide in 2006, I absolutely cannot begrudge him the right to race Ringsend Rose or anything else he pleases. Further info:

http://talkinghorses.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=11621

Moreover, it's not as if Sadik is so bereft of success that his entitlement to a permit to train horses should be questioned. I was at Cartmel last August when Indian Pipe Dream scored either a third or fourth victory in the calendar year - and I tell you what, there was not a more popular victory among his fellow trainers and the course executive all afternoon. He was virtually mobbed by his peers as the gelding crossed the line!

Cartmel was always Gus's favourite course, which is why Jeff has paid to have a memorial race run in his late son's honour every season since his death. The Sadiks love racing, and at the Lakeland idyll in particular racing loves them back.

gc
 
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It's not me actually questioning whether the horse should be running or not, GC - it's Blazing Walker who initiated the topic, BUT, since you've pulled the family bereavement into the issue, I imagine there are a lot of owners and trainers who've suffered bereavements in their families, so I don't see how someone who's died through suicide should be the reason why a no-hope horse runs frequently, any more than someone whose baby died an infant, or whose grand old mum has just succumbed to an illness. I suppose I'll sound hard as nails, which I'm not, but why should there be some special dispensation shown towards running a Sadik horse over and over, when it's not even finishing its races?

If tragedy were to be the excuse behind poor performances, then Derek Shaw would be excused from training rubbish and Chris Richardson of Cheveley Park Stud from offering cheap and nasty sires - but in spite of both suffering the appalling loss of an infant and a 21 y.o. son respectively in recent years, they don't need to be excused, as they keep up professional standards.

As for Mr Sadik training the odd winner, that's fine and dandy - but BW's point was why isn't a line drawn under this specific non-finisher?
 
BUT, since you've pulled the family bereavement into the issue, I imagine there are a lot of owners and trainers who've suffered bereavements in their families, so I don't see how someone who's died through suicide should be the reason why a no-hope horse runs frequently, any more than someone whose baby died an infant, or whose grand old mum has just succumbed to an illness. I suppose I'll sound hard as nails, which I'm not, but why should there be some special dispensation shown towards running a Sadik horse over and over, when it's not even finishing its races?

Them as are empowered to stop a horse from running will decide if and when entries for Ringsend Rose should cease to be taken, not us; and whatever her other failings, the one thing she isn't is a lethally incompetent threat to herself and others (which is my sole criterion for wanting to restrict a horse from racing).

Horses - however ordinary - as givers of life will always have a place in the game for me, and a 50s-rated chaser brings racing into far less disrepute than something that tries to kill its rider whenever it enters the stalls, hangs off course at the merest provocation, etc.

That's not a view all will share, I suppose, but then as the former co-editor of the Quixall Crossett website nobody should really expect anything else from me. A piece by Simon Barnes about the losingmost legend, which I still find as affecting to read as ever nearly 13 years on, is included at the end of this post. Training as catharis, again writ large.

gc



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[FONT=Gill Sans MT, arial]The winning ways of a champion loser [/FONT]
[FONT=Gill Sans MT, arial]Simon Barnes[/FONT]
[FONT=Gill Sans MT, arial]from The Times, March 27 1999[/FONT]

[FONT=Gill Sans MT, arial]QUIXALL CROSSETT is the worst horse in racing. "Well, he isn't," Ted Caine, his owner, trainer, work-rider and mucker-outer said. "People like to say that, but he isn't." Just the 87 races so far in his career. And he has not won a single one of them. He'll probably be having another crack over the Easter weekend. [/FONT]

[FONT=Gill Sans MT, arial]There has never been such a bad racehorse, in terms of figures, anyway. The previous worst was Amrullah, with 74 successive defeats. Quixall Crossett has taken losing into a new dimension. He lives with three almost equally dodgy horses in the North Yorkshire Moors: start from Middlesbrough and take a road that goes winding between the tops and hang a left into High Crossett Farm. Fine spring morning, lapwings dancing their courting dance in the sky above. [/FONT]

[FONT=Gill Sans MT, arial]Caine is a permit trainer, has been for 20 years, barring a single year out of the game. Permit trainers have a licence to train their own animals. He has had a nice horse here and there in his time: Cavalier Crossett won eight times - "but that was a once-in-a-lifetime, that was". [/FONT]

[FONT=Gill Sans MT, arial]Quixall Crossett, however, runs and runs and never wins. And neither Ted nor his wife, Joy, will hear a word against him. They will, when pressed, admit that he is a little on the slow side, "but he always quickens up towards the end of a race. You'll see." So the video cranks into operation. A narrow-bodied bay, jockey in purple sleeves, and leading. That's Quixall - but the favourite passes him as if he was stuck in second and cruises 20 lengths ahead. [/FONT]

[FONT=Gill Sans MT, arial]Ah, but wait, wait, wait for that famous second wind. [/FONT]

[FONT=Gill Sans MT, arial]And Quixall starts to eat into the lead, stride by stride. And the Caines watch, rapt. How many times have they watched this video, how many times have they been rapt? They are in their 50s, eyes shining with the naive delight of it all. Two out and a terrible jump by the leader, the jockey staying on by happy or unhappy chance. An audible sigh from Joy: if you watch this video enough, surely one time the leading jockey might just slide - painlessly, of course, not an ounce of malice in this household - to the floor. [/FONT]

[FONT=Gill Sans MT, arial]Even at the last, the leader puts in a poor jump and Quixall is behind him, jumping neatly and accurately. Come on, Quixall! But no, the winning post comes, Quixall has lost again. Only by two lengths, and second place isn't bad, and Quixall has been placed 18 times, and has been second once before, and there's glory for you. [/FONT]

[FONT=Gill Sans MT, arial]The Caines bred Quixall themselves, a stallion fee of £50. He was named for Albert Quixall, the footballer: "He was a blond inside forward and so was I." Quixall the footballer joined Manchester United after the Munich air crash; Quixall the horse joined the Caines 14 years ago. [/FONT]

[FONT=Gill Sans MT, arial]"Such big feet he had," Joy said. "It was as if all his strength had gone to his feet. It was like he had wellington boots on." [/FONT]

[FONT=Gill Sans MT, arial]"I was really pleased with the name," Ted said, "and I kept wishing I'd saved it for a good 'un." A walk round the yard does not take long: a run of four roomy boxes, all occupied, with Quixall in the star's box by the entrance. Where do you exercise them? "We just do bits round the farm. Up on the moors. Sometimes we go to the beach." [/FONT]

[FONT=Gill Sans MT, arial]There is a real, well, niceness about the pair of them, their uninhibited pleasure in their horses. They are far from humourless: they take a shy delight in Quixall's burgeoning celebrity status. Quixall gets his own fan mail. A typical example applauded his sterling efforts and had a couple of quid Sellotaped to the card: "Ask Mr Caine to spend this on carrots for you." But still I didn't understand. [/FONT]

[FONT=Gill Sans MT, arial]Many people would have got rid of the wellington-booted Quixall, but the Caines believed that he would improve (he could hardly go the other way, after all) and just about at the age of nine he grew into himself. In Flat racing, a late developer is one that matures in the autumn rather than spring of his three-year-old season, but the Caines are as generous with their time as they are with the cheese and malt loaf. [/FONT]

[FONT=Gill Sans MT, arial]They have taken other dodgy horses, horses that no one else wants. "We've taken them out of the rubbish bin." One of the four, Triona's Hope, was a chronic rearer when he came to them; no longer. What did you do to cure him? "Nothing really. Just bits around the farm. A bit of time. No pressure." Quixall is a decent, sensible horse that can jump. He is the right sort of animal to be schoolmaster to an apprentice, or easy companion to an amateur. So they run the horse mostly in apprentice and amateur races, which is also cheaper. It is a good deal all round. "And you don't give up when he's enjoying himself," Caine said. "We will keep going as long as he likes it. He jumps round, he enjoys it and he comes back sound because he knows how to look after himself. So we think about the next race." [/FONT]

[FONT=Gill Sans MT, arial]But what about that year off, why did he give up training for a year? "Oh, that was when our son was killed." A sweet and friendly smile. "I didn't feel like training then, but I took out a licence again the following year." Malcolm, their son, was killed in an accident on the farm; Malcolm who was going to take the place over, in the fullness of time. [/FONT]

[FONT=Gill Sans MT, arial]Joy was the one who found him. Devastation such as this destroys the survivors - but the Caines have not been destroyed. "Well, it was Quixall that kept us going, really." And suddenly this dotty pilgrimage around the racecourses of the North makes sense. [/FONT]

[FONT=Gill Sans MT, arial]Suddenly I can understand the delight in the occasional place, the real pride in the two seconds. "We enjoy going to the races more than ever," Caine said, "and we'll keep going. As long as he likes it." And it becomes clear that Quixall Crossett has seen the Caines through a period of the most unspeakable grief. Life: that is what horses are good at. That is what horses give. Also, they require so much looking after, what with feeding and watering and mucking out and exercising, that, even in despair, you have the business of life to deal with: the lives of the horse in your hands, their life-affirming nature to live with, the sound of munching in dark, the whickering as the feed bucket clangs in the yard, the feel of horse beneath you at morning exercise. [/FONT]

[FONT=Gill Sans MT, arial]And so the Caines take Quixall to the races, again and again, and he gives the amateur a nice day out and the apprentice a good lesson and it is all pure gold for the Caines. "He's not fast," Caine conceded, albeit reluctantly, "but he's a survivor." And so are they: kind people with a horse of almost impossible generosity. Quixall has had 87 races without victory. Quixall and the Caines are undefeated. [/FONT]
 
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You aren't alone in loving the late QC, Jeremy - after all, we have a member on Atacanta whose nom-de-plume is the dear horse's name! But QUIXALL got round every time, in his own time, at his own stately, safe pace. Everyone knew he'd never win - that would've ruined everything - but they still loved to see him dog the field like a terrier, and finish his races. He didn't have successive consonants as form! I think that's what Blazing Walker's objecting to - that RR starts, but does not complete.

I can understand all sorts of activities as catharsis, healing, recovery, therapy, whatever you like. What Blazer and I don't get is why a horse which never completes its races isn't called into question as suitable to continue going to post? For one thing, if it hasn't got the ability, why keep pushing it to do something it's not showing any capability of doing? QUIXALL was slow, but he was thorough!

If your kid repeatedly failed his/her Maths exams, perhaps you'd redirect the effort to something else, like art or plumbing, where the little dear might find its true vocation, and do well? So why not redirect RR's energies to something where she might perform with credit?
 
You aren't alone in loving the late QC, Jeremy - after all, we have a member on Atacanta whose nom-de-plume is the dear horse's name!

I know her well - we're pals on Facebook and elsewhere! You've reminded me that I've not been on Atacanta since signing up for it. Note to self, etc.


But QUIXALL got round every time, in his own time, at his own stately, safe pace.

He failed to complete 34 times out of 103 (104 including his run in a Point), including five on the spin as an 11-year-old, compared to Ringsend Rose's DNF tally of 4-14 under Rules so far. Those are comparable rates of failing to complete as far as I'm concerned, rather than massively different ones - let's see how Rose fares over her next few starts before judging whether her strike-rate is going to improve or deteriorate especially in that regard.

(An aside: I notice as well that Rose's completion rate under Rules is somewhat better than her equivalent in Irish Points before she joined Jeff Sadik - there, she managed only 6 completions in 15).


Everyone knew he'd never win - that would've ruined everything - but they still loved to see him dog the field like a terrier,

QC was absolutely not a dog, if that is the inference - apologies if that's not what you meant.

And rest assured the Caines would have loved a win out of him and any of their animals! The second behind Toskano is cited in the article above, but in addition I remember how I first met them in person at Sedgefield the week before foot and mouth broke, and they were hugely sweet on Swiss Comfort putting some poor form figures behind her in the mares' chase that day. Sure enough, the homebred was still swinging away when put out of the race in a pile-up about six from home. Definitely one that got away, as far as they were concerned.


He didn't have successive consonants as form!

He did - see above. The sequence mentioned was the longest, but not the only one.


For one thing, if it hasn't got the ability, why keep pushing it to do something it's not showing any capability of doing?

If your kid repeatedly failed his/her Maths exams, perhaps you'd redirect the effort to something else, like art or plumbing, where the little dear might find its true vocation, and do well? So why not redirect RR's energies to something where she might perform with credit?

I'm sure Jeff will decide soon enough if there's no more he can do with Rose, or whether he needs the box space for something else - he doesn't have many in at any one time and he does tend to pass them on to new homes reasonably frequently (e.g. Desert Tommy, winner of his fourth Point-to-Point since leaving him at Sheriff Hutton only last Sunday).

Jeremy
(graysonscolumn)
 
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I don't think you understand what I meant by dog. Dog, as in a verb, not a noun. I know QC wasn't a dog, I was implying that, like a terrier, he would doggedly follow the field through thick and thin in the same way that a terrier never gives up on its target. Happy enough to be corrected on his non-finishes, though.
 
Ah, you see we Pointing nerds use "dog" pejoratively at least as much as a verb, i.e. "Moustique De L'Isle dogged it completely" (which he did from from flagfall in Desert Tommy's race on Sunday). We're a quare and confusing breed. :-D

gc
 
Oh, yes, I'm well acquainted with 'Dogs of the Turf', Grayson! It's applied enough times for Flat, turf and AW, and anything with obstacles included. In fact, as you'll see on here, most losing bets can be attributed to horses of the canine persuasion!
 
You can imagine the mummy monkey saying to her little one, "Now stop that humanning around, Bobo, and behave yourself." God knows that our bad behaviour is worse than any animal's, since we pride ourselves on being the most intelligent species on Earth. I sometimes wonder how we arrived at that!
 
Effervesce

Sire: Galileo (IRE) (11.1f) Dam: Royal Fizz (IRE) Dam's sire: Royal Academy (USA) (8.5f)

280,000gns Y, 34,000gns Nkt Oct 2010; 8th foal, half-sister to useful GB 7f 2yo/1m Hong Kong winner Grand Marquee, useful sprinter Hitchens and a winner in Belgium; dam 6.5f winner in France, half-sister to smart Hong Kong gelding Floral Pegasus.


Cheveley Park purchase, offloaded to Pipe, but under the ownership of Magnier/ Tabor/ Smith. I can understand Pipe the mare if there is a breeding problem but the owners buying their own stock back and a poor one at that baffles me.

Rated 59, can someone explain what I'm missing, even if she does manage to win today.
 
Interesting that another Sadik runner took an absolute pearler at Southwell in the beginners chase earlier,chasing £300 for 3rd!! Horse & jockey got up but very lucky!
 
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