Worlds Most Evil Company

No question avaiable to import.

  • Nestle

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Coca - Cola

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Pepsi

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Nike

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Shell

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Esso

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Disney

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Caterpillar

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • McDonalds

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Other

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    0
K

Kotkijet

At the Start
Joined
May 14, 2005
Messages
33
Hi everybody

I guess that I may as well come clean about something a little bit disturbing and shocking. It is only fair that anybody who reads my comments should know that I'm a.......... Vegan. Now you know, I feel a little more comfortable in spouting my anti-capitalist rants.

So as anybody who understands global economics knows, corporations are either evil or ethical companies who got too big and sold out (i.e Body Shop / Co-Op / Green & Blacks)

But who is the worlds most evil company?

Nestle - Kill babies for money

Coca Cola - Kill unionists for complaining

Pepsi - Pollute earth and used to support the Burmese dictatorship (some sources claim that they're still there)

Nike - Make profits by jumping on the anti-racist bandwagon whilst selling wristbands that are made in blatently racist and inconsiderate conditions (along with everything else they sell)

Shell - Go into economically struggling (not developing) countries, destroy land for oil and kill local environmentalists for complaining *Ken Saro-Wiwa*

Esso - The reason why the worlds greatest killers of our grandchildrens earth (USA) refuse to sign up to the Kyoto agreement. Esso have benefitted the most from fossil fuels and haven't invested a cent into renewable resources

Disney - Get their money from Western children who buy products made by Eastern children at starvation wages. Relinquesh all responsibilty because the factorys are ran by third party contractors. Disney don't realise how they get their sh!t made at low low prices? Pull the other one

Caterpillar - Not only do they tear down Palestinian houses and displace human beings, they make a sh!t load of money from it as well.

McDonalds - Money before people, health, community, environment blah blah blah....
it's almost become cliche to hate Maccy Dees. So why do so many still eat there?

Other - Please state. Personally, I also hate Starbucks, Marks & Spencers, Coors (inc Carling, Worthingtons, Groltsh) Budweiser, Hilton, gsk, Proctor & Gamble, Selfridges, Rupert '4king' Murdoch, Mobile Phone's, Marlboro, Kleenex, Ford....... there's so many of them!!!

If anybody wants me to expand on the reasons that the above named shouldn't be funded by us hard working people then just ask.All the same, if anybody wishes to support / defend any of the above then again, be my guest.

Looking forward to your responses

Simon :)
 
Companies aren't evil, Kotkijet. They aren't sentient creatures with a sense of morality. People are good, or evil. The machines made by Caterpillar weren't made expressly for the purpose of tearing down the homes of Palestinians. Zionists are doing that, and they'd do it with wooden battering-rams, if that's all they had. Probably more good than wrong has been done by construction equipment in building not only the vast cities of the world, but also constructing badly-needed hospitals, schools, roads, and homes in less-developed nations, so that their people can be educated, healthier, and receive and send goods more effectively than by donkey and cart on rutted and dangerous roads, or to live in open sewers or under sheets of plastic.

You can take these companies apart, as you can take any company apart, on the grounds that they're capitalist and profit-oriented. On the other hand, you can say that if they didn't exist, then millions of what are already poor people wouldn't even have the small wages they get working for them at the foundation level. Why do you think thousands of applicants wanted to work for the relocated call centres in India? Because the work was so fascinating, and exercised the brains of the highly-talented graduates who got the jobs? No. Because they offered them a safe, clean, COMPARATIVELY very well-paid job, where they'd be treated without favour to their caste.

When you talk about certain people being killed by these companies, again, you have to remember that it was PEOPLE with their own selfish motives who did this, just as people in non-capitalist countries are murdered because they can't stand being slaves to the State any more, and would like to work more creatively and express their individuality - if you are suffering from memory loss, I'd remind you of how encouraging North Korea is towards its' citizens desires to be rated slightly higher than a colony of termites. Capitalism doesn't create a more murderous heart than communism or atheism or religion.

A company - any company - is only as good, or bad, as the humans who work for it, directly at HQ, or indirectly in a developing country, where the nationals are far too willing to solicit huge bribes for railroading through applications for business, even to the detriment of the environment, or the inhabitants. Greed drives all kinds of people.

By the way, if you want to add a company which really should be on your hit list, then add Union Carbide for their disgusting refusal to compensate those still suffering in Bhopal. Remember, it's the people both on the ground in India, who ran the plant badly, as much as the American owners of the company, who are in the dock.
 
Hi Simon, good to see you on the board :)

Nestle and its corporate slimeballs are pure evil and I have no hesitation in voting for them... I boycott their products, but confess that they are the only company I consciously do avoid.

You must have a devil of a job when you go shopping, though.
 
Hi everybody

Only time for a very brief response.

Hi Krizon
I hope you're not trying to 'big up' the trickle down effect.

Hi Colin
Good call. I'm not sure if the dolphin is quite you though.....

Hi purr - good to see you on the board too!
Shopping is actually very easy - I only shop at organic foodstores, totally avoiding Supermarkets. This has also enabled me to learn how to be a very respectable cook.

I'll be back later
 
I don't have the time, and to be honest cannot be arsed right now, with replying to all of your points, Simon.

What I will ask you though, is that as a capitalist-hating, anti-pollution, anti-seemingly everything else vegan, I trust that you live in a tent in a field, living entirely on produce you have grown yourself (naturally, all organic), don't drive a car or use any public transport (walking or cycling being the only non-polluting forms of transport) and do not work for any evil companies? Of course this analogy doesn't end there - I trust you don't have any requirement of medication or mediacal treatment as of course, those evil capitalist companies like Bayers, Glaxo, Pfizer etc will profit from that? What about the evil capitalist companies that manufactured your pc, and your web providers?

My point is that it's all well and good having opinions on all these evil people and practices, but if you are intending to make some kind of stand, you have to carry it all the way through!
 
Originally posted by Shadow Leader@Jun 11 2005, 10:20 AM
I don't have the time, and to be honest cannot be arsed right now, with replying to all of your points, Simon.

What I will ask you though, is that as a capitalist-hating, anti-pollution, anti-seemingly everything else vegan, I trust that you live in a tent in a field, living entirely on produce you have grown yourself (naturally, all organic), don't drive a car or use any public transport (walking or cycling being the only non-polluting forms of transport) and do not work for any evil companies? Of course this analogy doesn't end there - I trust you don't have any requirement of medication or mediacal treatment as of course, those evil capitalist companies like Bayers, Glaxo, Pfizer etc will profit from that? What about the evil capitalist companies that manufactured your pc, and your web providers?

My point is that it's all well and good having opinions on all these evil people and practices, but if you are intending to make some kind of stand, you have to carry it all the way through!
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No you don't Dom. You're coming the old "Ah, you're against abortion - so, if Adolf raped your daughter and she was now carrying a three headed dog in her womb, you'd insist she had it" or "Every time you wash your hands you're commiting mass murder so why are you worried about one chicken" type of argument. Any protest against wrong has its' worth. The protester may well be swimming against an unstoppable tide but if everyone was to adopt your stance then the only logical stopping place is total self interest. Have you never argued against something that wasn't totally in your self interest?
 
SL, it's almost impossible to "carry it all the way through" because of the domination of the major corporates. Unless Kotkijet chooses to become a self-sufficient recluse on an otherwise deserted island, he is unlikely to free himself from the shackles of "evil capitalism". That does not mean he is not entitled to express his opinion of the rather grotesque goings on in a lot of these companies. At least he appears to be doing something to try to support his viewpoint.

The fact is that many of the major corporates display little in the way of ethics, morals or compassion yet they are so dominant, so all-pervading that there is little that we can do other than make our own small stand against those we find the most distasteful.
 
If this is to be a two-way discussion or even a debate, then why are you already trying to diss the way I respond? I don't see your one-liner as a response, let alone understand what you mean.

I went through much of your stance when I was in my late teens, was very anti-everything that I personally didn't believe in, but unfortunately couldn't pick and choose the way in which to stay alive. If you are forced by circumstance to take the only job offered to you, where applicants are aplenty, then you sometimes have to put aside any qualms. I didn't find there was a huge market for anti-capitalist poetry, in a country already well stocked with far better such poets than me.

In the West, the majority of people are fortunate enough to make a choice whether to adopt certain stances, or not. (Something to do with democracy, however abused that concept may be in some places, versus state totalitarianism, where being a vegan might be enforced, rather than chosen.)

As for your dietary choice, since it's shared by millions of people worldwide on the grounds of religious edict or personal preference (for whatever reason), I certainly don't find anything curious in that. But I realize that veganism goes far beyond mere food, of course, which is where some vegetarians (or 'demi-vegetarians') find the going gets tough. No animal products or byproducts in the home, in toiletries, in clothing, and so on. It's not impossible to find vegan toiletries here in Brighton, but why the heck do they have to cost twice as much as non-vegan ones? That surely is capitalist mickey-taking?

Incidentally, I'm all for anyone who goes against the grain in a constructive manner, and sets out a stall of reasoned counter-argument to what is often blindly accepted as the norm. You could put up the links to the sites where you've obtained any data to support your poll, though as Honest Tom (our onsite vegetarian and curmudgeon-in-residence) would say, no bugger will move their arse to look at them. But I'd like to see them, anyway.
 
Why do many people with silly dietary fads feel the need to tell everyone about it, and imply that they're somehow superior to non-believers?

Anyway, there are just as many con-artists and exploiters in the organic and health food industries as there are in "mainstream" ones.

By the way, I suppose I really ought to let you know that I haven't touched rice pudding since I was a lad, but I can't in all honesty say whether it's made me a better person or not. I also don't eat leather shoes.
 
But many religions determine 'dietary fads', Ven. No pork for Muslims, no beef for Hindus, no meat of any kind for Buddhists and Jains, special slaughtering methods for Jews and Muslims, no meat on Fridays for Catholics (probably somewhat diluted nowadays), nothing alcoholic and no offal for Muslims... there are probably lots more, but I'm aware of these so far.

I understand the basis for some of these edicts, but if you adopt a way of life, or have it thrust upon you at birth, I can't see that they're of interest to other people unless the discussion is about that subject. I agree, Kotkijet informing us that s/he is a vegan - in an anti-capitalist topic - doesn't enlighten me as to how or why one goes with the other. Mr Hitler was one of the world's more outstanding vegetarians, and an avid dog-lover, but I doubt that either of those predispositions were relevant to his otherwise seriously anti-social behaviour.
 
I'm sorry Tom, and Muttley, I disagree, particularly when someone professes to "hate" all these "evil companies" and vent their spleen over them. If you are to be so moralistic, and elect to shove your view down everyone else's throats (which, in my book, encouraging people to boycott certain products certainly is ramming it down people's throats) then the very least you can do is not be a two-face hypocrite and continue to utilise products that go against everything you have a
rant [unquote] over, especially when as Kri says, people in the western world DO have a choice over what they do. Muttley - if the only way that Kotkijet can abide by all his principles is to
become a self-sufficient recluse on an otherwise deserted island
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then so be it - it could be managed, and if he imposes that restriction on him/herself through their beliefs, then fine - it was their choice in the first place!

Why do many people with silly dietary fads feel the need to tell everyone about it, and imply that they're somehow superior to non-believers?
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God knows Ven - it's something I've certainly wondered about. More to the point, why do they tend to enjoy lecturing to the rest of the [non-vegan] world about the intrinsic evil involved in eating meat? I don't feel the need to spout off to them about why they should be eating meat - although I could! :lol:
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Why does expressing a viewpoint constitute "shoving it down everyone else's throat"? Kotkijet opened this thread as a poll/debate. He put his own opinion. Everyone else has the opportunity to put theirs - in fact, as far as I can see, one of the purposes of the thread is to invite them to do so.

Many things in life come down to "a matter of opinion" because different people see things in different ways, they have differing senses of value - that does not mean either is right or wrong, simply that they are not the same.

I abhor foxhunting, you support it - that's fine - we just hold different opinions.
 
Well put Muttley.

Dom, basically you're saying that had the Nazis taken over the world then anyone who disagreed with them would have no option but to commit suicide. Otherwise they would be seen as being hypocritical (i.e. accepting work, accomodation etc. within the third reich).

Incidentally, the recent debate on meat eating came to the fore on two threads. One started by An Capall telling us how he likes to fuck his chicken before he eats it and the other (this thread) by Dimminuendo regarding the cruelty recently featured on the news. Are either of them being accused of "shoving their view down other people's throats" or does that only apply to views you disagree with. Should the moderators delete every thread where it appears two people have a difference of opinion?
 
It's nothing to do with who is right or wrong, Muttley - I didn't say that. By opening a thread asking us to discuss "who is the worlds most evil company?" - assuming they are evil, that is!!! - is not ramming down the opinion that these companies are evil? I also consider "expand on the reasons that the above named shouldn't be funded by us hard working people" to be ramming opinions down our throats - ramming down the opinion that they are evil and positively encouraging us to boycott certain companies' products.
 
That is bollock, Tom, and you know it! Of course you are going to say that though, as you are usually the instigator of ramming down peoples' throats your ideas that meat eaters are scum and everyone should be made to turn vegetarian.....

And yes, this is ramming an opinion down people throats - no invite to discuss whether or not these companies are evil but to discuss who is the most evil - the author of the thread has taken it as read that these companies are evil by telling us that they are. Oh, so they must be....
 
I'm not ramming anything down anyone's throat Dom. You on the other hand are paying people to inflict great cruelty on animals and to ram antibiotics and unnatural amounts of food down their throats to fatten them up for a slaughter that will be far from pain free. In the past you have also attempted to ram CA propoganda down the throats of anti-foxhunting forumites. You also work for an evil company IMO.
icon_eek.gif
 
That strikes me as being a very selective way of looking at things, SL, but, hey, c'est la vie. As I said, we all differ in our viewpoints and this thread isn't supposed to be about what does, or does not, constitute shoving something down someone's throat, so I shall close the subject.

:)
 
Steady on, Tom - have you ever seen the results of what can amount to criminal neglect of organically reared stock?

Excessive worm burdens because prescriptive wormers aren't allowed, appalling cases of mastitis because a simple routine preventitive medicine isn't permissable - maybe all done with the best of intentions, but still resulting in an animal suffering unnecessarily.

Nothing in life or death can ever be guaranteed to be pain-free but that's no reason not to exist!

And before you tell me that by not eating meat or drinking milk that the above problems would be irrelevant, please do just confirm to me first that you don't, have not ever and will not in future, take advanatage of any medical products that may alleviate any illness you may have or - far more likely - that your children may have them misfortune to suffer. Because most of them have been formulated by pharamceutical companies whose method mays well be very questionable.

Personally, I don't think you can best Krizon's responses above - summed up beautifully, imo!
 
Julie, the underlying logic in your post mirrors Dom & Kri's i.e. anything less than 100% is failure. If I was starving I would eat an animal in the absence of an alternative. That doesn't mean I should just give up and eat meat regardless of circumstance.

If you and your 2 amigos were serial killers would you be arguing your actions were entirely justified on the basis that during the war I might've dropped bombs on innocent civilians in Dresden?
 
Hi everybody

Great to see a lively and multi opinionated debate and I am more than happy to throw myself in the mix.

Because of time restrictions, I'm going to go through this post at a time so apologies if I haven't got to you by the end of this post - you're not forgotten.

Hi Krizon
'' Companies aren't evil, Kotkijet. They aren't sentient creatures with a sense of morality. People are good, or evil.'' Football teams aren't great Krizon. They aren't sentient creatures with an apetite for sporting success. Players are great, or poor. I guess I could have named the poll/thread 'Which group of people who have a shared and selfish monetry interest in a particular brand (not product), collectively carry out the most inconsiderate acts of gross incompetance with the lowest evidence of remorse or reparation? Evil - companys has a better ring to it.

In business, any successful company knows exactly where it's money comes from and where it goes. A kitchen knife isn't expressly made for the purpose of killing people, but would you sell a knife to a man who you knew full well was going to use it to kill?

Phillips play peoples heartstrings by proudly claiming that their products are great for the medical world. Similarly, Caterpillar calls itself a great representitive and player in progress and world development. Regardless of what you think about ''progress'', that alone doesn't make Caterpillar a great company that the world should be proud to have.

The Trickle down effect. The theory that when a multi national destroys local districts and replaces them with sweatshops, those that work in the sweatshops will in time (over several generations if the company stays there) be able to become financially independant.

Export Processing Zones (sweatshops) are built on the promise of local industrialization. Scores of countries such as Mauritius, Indonesia, Mexico, China and Morocco are falling over themselves to take on the multi's. They offer incentives like 5 year tax breaks which offers NOTHING to the local communities and 7 day, 12 hour shifts on anything between $0.13 and $0.30 an hour. Just think how much local services and life in general would be improved if the richest and most destructive kid in town paid his taxes like everybody else? It doesn't stop there, as soon as the tax holiday is up, the company can either jump to another desperate country or simply set up a new brand in town and enjoy another 5 years on it's holiday. And what of the lives of the people who work in sweatshops? They are almost all young females who don't get paid enough to eat and sleep (they haven't enough time to live outside of working hours) in dorms which are literally converted pig barns with roofs on them. That's not a life, no matter how you gloss it with inspiring words.

''When you talk about certain people being killed by these companies, again, you have to remember that it was PEOPLE with their own selfish motives who did this''

On November 10, 1995, Nigerian poet and environmental activist Ken Saro-Wiwa and nine co-defendants were hanged by General Abacha, the dictator of Nigeria, despite international pleas for clemency. Ken Saro-Wiwa's crime was fighting against the exploitation of the Ogoni people and the destruction of their land by oil companies, including Mobil, Chevron, Texaco, and especially Shell.

Ogoniland, the center of oil production in Nigeria, has suffered deteriorating social and environmental conditions, in great part because it is a center of the country's oil production, generating 80% of government revenues in Nigeria.

Shell Oil controls most of the country's resources, having extracted an estimated $30 billion worth of oil from Ogoniland since 1958. Shell has never used its considerable influence either to moderate the anti-democratic actions of General Abacha and previous authoritarian governments, or to help the Ogoni People and Ken Saro-Wiwa, from whose homeland, Ogoniland, Shell Oil has reaped enormous profits over the past 37 years.

Since Ken Saro-Wiwa's execution, Shell has announced plans to build a liquefied natural gas pipeline from the Niger Delta on Nigeria's coast through Ogoniland. The Niger Delta is home to coastal rain forest, mangrove habitats, and wetlands. It has been identified by the United Nations as the most endangered river delta in the world, the result of nearly four decades of oil exploitation. From 1982 to 1992 alone, more than 6.4 million liters of oil were spilled in Nigeria, an amount more than 40% higher than that released by the Exxon Valdez.

I don't see how standing up against death of an enitre group of people is selfish.

Hi Shadow Leader

I didn't think that I would be put under scrutiny so soon since I had no idea this topic was about me but here goes.

Since I wasn't born in a straight edge world, I'm never going to be straight edge with the world as it is. But that shouldn't stop me from trying to cause as little damage as possible. I have no choice but to pay my taxes which means that will be funding so much of the worlds shit. But wherever I can help having a more 'ethical' lifestyle I tend to make much more of an effort than the apathetic/ignorant majority of people I have met. As for my occupation, I used to work for Able 2 Buy, McShits, RBS, TNS, Expotel (private sub branch of the govt) and the likes and I actually feel guilty for working for them (even though I probably cost more than I was worth) but it gave me a better perspective on how these comanies make their money. These days I'm volunteering at a vegan radical cafe in Manchester (The Basement, 24 Lever Street - you've gotta check it out!) and I'm off to the wonderful world of education for a few years with a view to becoming a teacher. Possibly History & Geography - I don't think they would let me teach politics.

The idea of Deep Ecology is daft because if followed strictly, then the world would be in the shithouse - no doubt about it. If everybody used Public Transport, there would be a significant reduction of nasty gasses that encourage global warming. I never have nor will buy a car and I'm very sparing in my electricity and water use around the house. Being a vegan means that I use only 1/20th of the land needed by a carnivore which has more of an effect on the environment than most would think. Hell, I even wipe my arse with 100% recycled paper, brush my teeth with a non gmo or animal by products toothpaste which wasn't tested on animals and wrap my joints with a skin made from pure hemp paper.

Which group do you think would be more responsible in a medical position? A group that wanted to save lives or a group that wanted to make money by saving lives?

I follow my opinions as far as I can and because good intentions simply aren't enough.

Thank you Honest Tom and Muttley for your defence whilst I was away.

I'm off to watch Rob Newman at the Basement now so I'll continue my rants later on. 'til then, peace

I love you all!
 
Apologies to Songsheet, though, if that comes across the wrong way! I know she believes in good animal husbandry and is absolutely against factory farming ...
 
Going back to the original proposition - Koki, you have just made Coca Cola my favourite company. (Unless of course you mean Trades Unionists.)

Coca Cola - Kill unionists for complaining
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Honest Tom...I've never fucked a chicken, but you are fast becoming my favourite poster!
 
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