Honest Tom
At the Start
- Joined
- May 2, 2003
- Messages
- 1,272
Let me guess AC, I've been called first in a photo with Merlin.
Worlds Most Evil Company
- Thread starter Kotkijet
- Start date
Excuse me, Kot, but you've kinda answered some of your own questions, which would be in synch with my answers, were you not so determined to just lay all the world's ills at companies' feet.
WHO killed Ken Saro-Wiwa? His own goddam countrymen! Why? So that they could get a perceived troublemaker out of their way, and line their pockets with the bribes they'd be in line to get for 'assisting' the passage of this construction work. Africa is full of parasitical bastards, not necessarily in power as Presidents, Prime Ministers or self-styled Emperors (per Bokassa), but through all levels of petty bureaucracy and certainly at all levels of government where approving applications to do business in their country is concerned: from building multinational hotels, factories, or oil processing, mining, quarrying, logging or exporting minerals.
Nigeria is probably the most corrupt country in Africa - and by heck, that's going some! It's been that way for at least 40 years, and shows no sign of stopping its' gangster-like activities, from paying the police not to stop you to and from the airport, or search your hotel room, to the casual way that power-grabbers have each other bumped off every now and then. None of the 'evil' you see in Africa-based companies would exist without the compliance and connivance of Africans selling their own people way, way short, whether it's through rampant nepotism, tribalism, or just plain selfish pocket-lining. Usually, it's all three.
When you detail the way in which companies are permitted to set up their short-term trading - ask yourself, why do the countries' governments permit this? Who benefits from these slash-and-burn type policies? The answer is that there's going to be something - and it's always a material something - in it for those who rubberstamp the policies which permit such deals. You may feel the companies are evil, but they're only as evil as the host countries permit them to be. If you stop seeing these countries' poor as victims of capitalist venture, but as the pawns of their own governments, you get a different - if deeply unfashionable, because it isn't fashionably anti-USA or anti-capitalist - take on their situation. If you stamp out corruption, you will 'make poverty history'.
WHO killed Ken Saro-Wiwa? His own goddam countrymen! Why? So that they could get a perceived troublemaker out of their way, and line their pockets with the bribes they'd be in line to get for 'assisting' the passage of this construction work. Africa is full of parasitical bastards, not necessarily in power as Presidents, Prime Ministers or self-styled Emperors (per Bokassa), but through all levels of petty bureaucracy and certainly at all levels of government where approving applications to do business in their country is concerned: from building multinational hotels, factories, or oil processing, mining, quarrying, logging or exporting minerals.
Nigeria is probably the most corrupt country in Africa - and by heck, that's going some! It's been that way for at least 40 years, and shows no sign of stopping its' gangster-like activities, from paying the police not to stop you to and from the airport, or search your hotel room, to the casual way that power-grabbers have each other bumped off every now and then. None of the 'evil' you see in Africa-based companies would exist without the compliance and connivance of Africans selling their own people way, way short, whether it's through rampant nepotism, tribalism, or just plain selfish pocket-lining. Usually, it's all three.
When you detail the way in which companies are permitted to set up their short-term trading - ask yourself, why do the countries' governments permit this? Who benefits from these slash-and-burn type policies? The answer is that there's going to be something - and it's always a material something - in it for those who rubberstamp the policies which permit such deals. You may feel the companies are evil, but they're only as evil as the host countries permit them to be. If you stop seeing these countries' poor as victims of capitalist venture, but as the pawns of their own governments, you get a different - if deeply unfashionable, because it isn't fashionably anti-USA or anti-capitalist - take on their situation. If you stamp out corruption, you will 'make poverty history'.
Where did I mention supporting, endorsing or sympaphysing with the governments of the exploited countries? Personally, I believe in complete de-centrification where borders are made history and communities co-operate with each other rather than strive to outdo their neighbours. Probably won't happen in my lifetime but thats a different issue.
Cos I'm off on hols, haven't got much tinme to read Muttley's link (sorry!) but my beef ( :lol: ) about organic farming is the stance by its supporters that it's an 'all-or-nothing' creed...
I believe that it would be far better to promote a best farming practice where minimal applications of fertilizer and preventative drugs were encouraged in much the same way that the points system for the SFP is being formulated, which would then be able to heavily penalise those farmers who follow factory farmings and other intensive methods, thereby making their food production methods totally uneconomic - and this needs to be followed up by protectionist policies penalising via the same financial penalties all imported food raised by hese methods.
Food doesn't have to be organic to be well-raised.
It's morally wrong to force anyone to eat in a certain way, to be vegan, veggie or carniverous but it isn't morally wrong to ensure that if we do choose to eat/farm other animals, then it should be done to the highest possible standards.
All the above slightly off-topic - sorry Kotkijet!
I believe that it would be far better to promote a best farming practice where minimal applications of fertilizer and preventative drugs were encouraged in much the same way that the points system for the SFP is being formulated, which would then be able to heavily penalise those farmers who follow factory farmings and other intensive methods, thereby making their food production methods totally uneconomic - and this needs to be followed up by protectionist policies penalising via the same financial penalties all imported food raised by hese methods.
Food doesn't have to be organic to be well-raised.
It's morally wrong to force anyone to eat in a certain way, to be vegan, veggie or carniverous but it isn't morally wrong to ensure that if we do choose to eat/farm other animals, then it should be done to the highest possible standards.
All the above slightly off-topic - sorry Kotkijet!
Honest Tom
At the Start
- Joined
- May 2, 2003
- Messages
- 1,272
I don't know how you can say that Julie. If there are alternatives available then I certainly think it's immoral to eat animals (even if there was no suffering involved) and presumably you would be against human cannibalism.
Don't diss cannibalism, folks - it's been the favoured meat of many tribes who don't seem too badly off for it, other than not yet arriving at the age of the wheel, thus propping up HT's argument that eating only plants improves the IQ. Of course, smoking plants has the opposite effect...
Hi everybody, hope you all had a great weekend.
Hi Krizon
''I went through much of your stance when I was in my late teens, was very anti-everything that I personally didn't believe in, but unfortunately couldn't pick and choose the way in which to stay alive. If you are forced by circumstance to take the only job offered to you, where applicants are aplenty, then you sometimes have to put aside any qualms. I didn't find there was a huge market for anti-capitalist poetry, in a country already well stocked with far better such poets than me.''
No offence but you weren't in the Socialist Student Party were you? I agree that sometimes, you will have to put aside qualms if you live in the west when there is no choice. For example, if I want to get to Manchester from Mottram, I can only use the 201, 236 or 237 bus services - all services ran by Stagecoach and Brian 'the rich homophobe' Souter. Nonetheless, there is a choice when it comes to choosing 95% of whatever it is you spend your money on. Now the example above sounds very specific and whilst I want to avoid being a presumptious sh!t, I'm assuming that you used to be anti-capitalist but a capitalist company offered you a comfortable package and the hippy in you was sent into history where it seemingly belongs. Please accept my apologies if I'm wrong. What we do for a living determines how we devote much of our waking hours which is why I no longer want to accept a menial job for some w@nker and his pension fund. If I spent however many hours at the weekend protesting, those hours would be cancelled and swamped by the 37 odd hours during the week spent keeping the machine running.
Whilst the West does offer it's residents the right to choose which certain stance they adopt, it doesn't offer residents of other counrties the same choice. It also doesn't mention to it's own residents how free the West really is or how the West is so free in the first place. For those who don't know, we live in a magical bubble where we can get anything we could ever wish for and our wishes are fulfilled by the exploitation of the non-west which has been going on for hundreds and hundreds of years. As I mentioned in a post late Sautrday night, I don't believe in any state.
Regarding my diet, I used to be able to cook the most mint-ass Spag Bol and Chilli Con Carne dishes known to man. This was until I saw my cat trying to kill a bird and it turned me into a big softie. For a year now, I haven't conciously consumed any meat and many people I met considered me to have a noble and admirable stance. When I turned vegan a month ago - people just look at me weird. I wanted to turn vegan earlier but I used to be a van lad which meant that unless I ended up in a fairly forward town such as Brighton (home of schnews - check it out if you haven't already) I had the choice of eating either meat or something with either milk, cheese, egg or butter in it which sucked. The reason why I figured that being veggie wasn't enough was that animals used for milk etc led very shitty lives and I wouldn't consider myself to be a very sincere animal lover if I simply put that aspect of animal welfare to the back of my mind. I also get the irony of my expensive toothpaste dilemma but I guess that's a case of which compromise I'd rather make - harm animals or harm my skinny wallet.
Whilst everything I have learned in my entire life wasn't gathered from the internet - I'm going to give your links challenge a shot
Nestle - www.babymilkaction.org
Coca Cola - www.cokewatch.org
Pepsi - http://perc.ca/PEN/1993-02/staff.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/2263917.stm
Nike - http://www.oxfam.org.au/campaigns/nike/
Shell - http://www.essentialaction.org/shell/moreinfo.html
Esso - http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/climate/clima...s/esso/case.cfm
Disney - http://www.cleanclothes.org/companies/disney.htm
Caterpillar - http://www.catdestroyshomes.org/index.php
McDonalds - http://www.mcspotlight.org/
Anyways Krizon - it's been a while since I've seen the word curmudgeon and it always manages to make me chuckle so thanks for that
Hi Venusian
I'm glad you used the term many people instead of all people with silly dietry fads. Yes I've met a few veggies, eco-warriors and the likes who feel like they're better than others because of a certain perspective they have and it's normally these fleeting high horse types who get bored of being looked at funny and revert to actions they once objected to. This is probably because the motivation for becoming something or another was for selfish rather than selfless reasons.
I eat what I eat because I love animals and I don't want to be responsible for any harm brought to them. I think it's fair to say that anybody who eats burgers and calls themselves an animal lover is contradicting themself. But I'm not going to hate that person for eating a burger. Even if that person calls me a weirdo.
Hi Krizon again
I was being ironic more than anything when I emphasized the fact that I was a vegan - although there could have been another straight egde nut lurking around these forums who could have asked how I could care so much about corporations without the notion extending to animals so it's always good to have that covered.
Hi Shadow Leader
Why are you trying to push the focus onto me as a person? How am I ramming my beliefs down your throat? Did I say that if you buy Shell oil, you're an inconsiderate arsehole? Isn't the whole idea of forums to express your opinion?
As far as I can help it, I won't use branded products and Stagecoach and utilities aside - I haven't given any of the above companies any of my dough. If you're apathetic and feel unaffected by evil companies then fair enough - you're in good company - but don't have a go at me or anybody else with principles on the basis that they don't live by the cloth because there is no justification for it. You're just being aggresive towards a breed that care and whilst I can absorb any insult you can throw at me - I'm worried that you will put off other people from caring. They will assume that the world is full of people who shout like you did and having ethics just isn't worth it in the long term.
My principles on public transport, housing and medicine are ones that I haven't actually expressed on this forum before so I'm going to feel pretty safe in using the word presumptious to describe your posts in this thread.
Anyways, I thought it was common knowledge that the companies I listed aren't very nice. That extends beyond my own little individual opinion that I'm ramming down your throat. If you want to ram your opinions on how these companies are GOOD down my throat then please go ahead but I doubt you will get very far.
Hi Muttley & Honest Tom
Excellent points, and it's good to know that I'm not alone in having opinions that are somewhat not normal. I didn't know that SL was CA! *licks lips and rubs hands
Something for Krizon & Shadow Leader, I don't know if you have noticed but if you look at the poll - 2 people other than me dislike Nestle, somebody dislikes Pepsi as another dislikes Disney. Nike and McDonalds each have two chatters who find them pretty naughty so I'm getting the impression that these companies are in fact, evil and my opinions are something more than petulant and deluded creations of my fragile little mind.
Hi Krizon
''I went through much of your stance when I was in my late teens, was very anti-everything that I personally didn't believe in, but unfortunately couldn't pick and choose the way in which to stay alive. If you are forced by circumstance to take the only job offered to you, where applicants are aplenty, then you sometimes have to put aside any qualms. I didn't find there was a huge market for anti-capitalist poetry, in a country already well stocked with far better such poets than me.''
No offence but you weren't in the Socialist Student Party were you? I agree that sometimes, you will have to put aside qualms if you live in the west when there is no choice. For example, if I want to get to Manchester from Mottram, I can only use the 201, 236 or 237 bus services - all services ran by Stagecoach and Brian 'the rich homophobe' Souter. Nonetheless, there is a choice when it comes to choosing 95% of whatever it is you spend your money on. Now the example above sounds very specific and whilst I want to avoid being a presumptious sh!t, I'm assuming that you used to be anti-capitalist but a capitalist company offered you a comfortable package and the hippy in you was sent into history where it seemingly belongs. Please accept my apologies if I'm wrong. What we do for a living determines how we devote much of our waking hours which is why I no longer want to accept a menial job for some w@nker and his pension fund. If I spent however many hours at the weekend protesting, those hours would be cancelled and swamped by the 37 odd hours during the week spent keeping the machine running.
Whilst the West does offer it's residents the right to choose which certain stance they adopt, it doesn't offer residents of other counrties the same choice. It also doesn't mention to it's own residents how free the West really is or how the West is so free in the first place. For those who don't know, we live in a magical bubble where we can get anything we could ever wish for and our wishes are fulfilled by the exploitation of the non-west which has been going on for hundreds and hundreds of years. As I mentioned in a post late Sautrday night, I don't believe in any state.
Regarding my diet, I used to be able to cook the most mint-ass Spag Bol and Chilli Con Carne dishes known to man. This was until I saw my cat trying to kill a bird and it turned me into a big softie. For a year now, I haven't conciously consumed any meat and many people I met considered me to have a noble and admirable stance. When I turned vegan a month ago - people just look at me weird. I wanted to turn vegan earlier but I used to be a van lad which meant that unless I ended up in a fairly forward town such as Brighton (home of schnews - check it out if you haven't already) I had the choice of eating either meat or something with either milk, cheese, egg or butter in it which sucked. The reason why I figured that being veggie wasn't enough was that animals used for milk etc led very shitty lives and I wouldn't consider myself to be a very sincere animal lover if I simply put that aspect of animal welfare to the back of my mind. I also get the irony of my expensive toothpaste dilemma but I guess that's a case of which compromise I'd rather make - harm animals or harm my skinny wallet.
Whilst everything I have learned in my entire life wasn't gathered from the internet - I'm going to give your links challenge a shot
Nestle - www.babymilkaction.org
Coca Cola - www.cokewatch.org
Pepsi - http://perc.ca/PEN/1993-02/staff.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/2263917.stm
Nike - http://www.oxfam.org.au/campaigns/nike/
Shell - http://www.essentialaction.org/shell/moreinfo.html
Esso - http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/climate/clima...s/esso/case.cfm
Disney - http://www.cleanclothes.org/companies/disney.htm
Caterpillar - http://www.catdestroyshomes.org/index.php
McDonalds - http://www.mcspotlight.org/
Anyways Krizon - it's been a while since I've seen the word curmudgeon and it always manages to make me chuckle so thanks for that
Hi Venusian
I'm glad you used the term many people instead of all people with silly dietry fads. Yes I've met a few veggies, eco-warriors and the likes who feel like they're better than others because of a certain perspective they have and it's normally these fleeting high horse types who get bored of being looked at funny and revert to actions they once objected to. This is probably because the motivation for becoming something or another was for selfish rather than selfless reasons.
I eat what I eat because I love animals and I don't want to be responsible for any harm brought to them. I think it's fair to say that anybody who eats burgers and calls themselves an animal lover is contradicting themself. But I'm not going to hate that person for eating a burger. Even if that person calls me a weirdo.
Hi Krizon again
I was being ironic more than anything when I emphasized the fact that I was a vegan - although there could have been another straight egde nut lurking around these forums who could have asked how I could care so much about corporations without the notion extending to animals so it's always good to have that covered.
Hi Shadow Leader
Why are you trying to push the focus onto me as a person? How am I ramming my beliefs down your throat? Did I say that if you buy Shell oil, you're an inconsiderate arsehole? Isn't the whole idea of forums to express your opinion?
As far as I can help it, I won't use branded products and Stagecoach and utilities aside - I haven't given any of the above companies any of my dough. If you're apathetic and feel unaffected by evil companies then fair enough - you're in good company - but don't have a go at me or anybody else with principles on the basis that they don't live by the cloth because there is no justification for it. You're just being aggresive towards a breed that care and whilst I can absorb any insult you can throw at me - I'm worried that you will put off other people from caring. They will assume that the world is full of people who shout like you did and having ethics just isn't worth it in the long term.
My principles on public transport, housing and medicine are ones that I haven't actually expressed on this forum before so I'm going to feel pretty safe in using the word presumptious to describe your posts in this thread.
Anyways, I thought it was common knowledge that the companies I listed aren't very nice. That extends beyond my own little individual opinion that I'm ramming down your throat. If you want to ram your opinions on how these companies are GOOD down my throat then please go ahead but I doubt you will get very far.
Hi Muttley & Honest Tom
Excellent points, and it's good to know that I'm not alone in having opinions that are somewhat not normal. I didn't know that SL was CA! *licks lips and rubs hands
Something for Krizon & Shadow Leader, I don't know if you have noticed but if you look at the poll - 2 people other than me dislike Nestle, somebody dislikes Pepsi as another dislikes Disney. Nike and McDonalds each have two chatters who find them pretty naughty so I'm getting the impression that these companies are in fact, evil and my opinions are something more than petulant and deluded creations of my fragile little mind.
Shadow Leader
At the Start
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2003
- Messages
- 9,884
The focus is on you as a person because if you want to push this idea onto people that all these companies are evil, blah blah, eating meat is cruel, capitalism is wrong and so on then yes, the way you live your life in comparison to that is very relevant. You may not have said people who buy Shell oil are inconsiderate arseholes but you certainly implied it, along with people who eat meat, eat at McDonalds, eat Nestlé products, buy Nike/Caterpillar/Disney products, drink Coke or Pepsi and so on.
As for the implication that unless anyone who feels the same way as you is "apathetic" and "doesn't care"; well, I won't go into what I think of that.
You may not have expressed specifics, but you have stated that you are anti-capitalist and you have had a go at enough companies for polluting the environment so no, what I said was not presumptive - surely, "caring" so much for the planet you wouldn't consider polluting the atmosphere through your use of vehicles, fossil fuels and the like, which encompasses transport and housing as far as I can see! As for medicines, as you are so anti-capitalist, surely you wouldn't want Glaxo or SmithKlineBeecham to profit from your purchase of medicines?
As for "licking your lips & rubbing your hands" over mention of the CA; I hope you enjoy it as I'm not about to give you the pleasure of swallowing the bait over that obvious bit of fishing.
I wasn't in the Socialist Student Party, because I left school at 16, but my Mother was a card-carrying member of the Communist Party in the 1930s, leaving when their London-based local chapter's head announced at a rally that 'one day (wave of arms to streets) we too will live in the big houses, and we too will drive big cars'... having truly believed up until then that she was supporting an anti-materialistic ethic, that finished her off. From her side of the family, came the crusading Lancastrian Unionist Harry Pollitt, and a fair wedge of the family has been strongly Labour, while another fair wedge couldn't give a rat's arse about any form of politics.
BrianH
At the Start
I don't want Honest Tom shoving leather shoes down my throat
Hi Shadow Leader
I think the last thing I want is everybody to be like me or think like me because that make the world a very boring place. I am not trying to create an anarchic army nor am I going to run around every high street in Britain launching bricks through the windows of any branded shop. I wouldn't expect anybody else to because that would create more 'opportunities for development' and the Police are very unsympathetic to any form of activism. (Unless of course you're a super rich kid who's chummy with the royals - then you can even get away with invading parliament)
Believe it or not, I used to be a meat eating, Aero chomping, Coke guzzling, Mobile Phone blarbing, Thomas Pink clad, big-house fast-car latest-gadgetry money hungry capitalist. I wouldn't have said I was stupid when I was that person, nor was I nasty or owt like that, but I was a little slow to ask how the world was beyond what I saw so essentially, I was pretty shallow. Getting my perspective on life from television, teachers, newspapers and bosses at the Royal Bank Of Scotland.
I used to be of the opinion that the West must be right because we don't see religious persecution. On 9/11, Osama Bin Laden was a bastard. How dare he attack the west!!! Fundamentalist nutjob! Which is fair enough but it never actually occured to me that 420,000 children worldwide died of starvation because of capitalism. Why would it? Unless I was looking for information on the same - I would never know.
I used to think that being English is something to be very proud of and why not? We beat the Germans in two world wars and one world cup. We used to have a great empire which was nothing but great for the world. England is great because we invented ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING. We freed the slaves and had nothing to do with exploiting them and any relationship we ever had with Africa was in the main good for them and if it turned out we were wrong - they'll forgive us like that because we're England and no fu<ker else is!!! Everytime a football team, boxer, musician etc was abroad representing England, they were also representing me, you and all of us.
We all have the opportunity to become millionaires and if we work hard enough at it, we all will be. More importantly, we will deserve it. Even though I was fascinated by numbers since I wanted to be a bookie, I was blissfully unaware of the notion that it's a mathematical impossibility for any more than a small few to be millionaires. The first time I thought about it was when I saw the words 'Profit Is Theft' scribed across the Eircom building - and my first reaction was don't be silly, you need help. I used to gamble like it was making me a good person - somebody more worthy than the dick next to me having a five pound bet. I did well, so well I won enough to have a few playboy nights out in Manchester and get me a dog who ran at Belle Vue. When my winning streak ended - I felt shit. Not because I was skint, that was a relief, but because the way I'd been behaving and also, the realisation of how fu<king pointless it is trying to be richer than the next person and how easily Thomas Pink shirts crease up.
I used to think that most of those who went on those anti-whatever protests were just a bunch of middle class students who were just out there to out-moral eachother whilst trying to get on the telly. In retrospect - I was right about that one.
The point I'm making is that whilst I was born in a very working class setting, I wasn't born an anti-capitalist. That developed over time and I guess is still developing. When it first happened, I was still a little too proud to accept it, as if my life would have been a lie but after a few seconds, well Pride is a sin as well as Greed. I suppose I learned an awful lot being apathetic without actually knowing it at the time so in a way, that time wasn't wasted.
A great chunk of my family and friends are apathetic people who don't know about nor are they overly fussed about politics. I'm not going to dislike them for it, that would be wrong. How they feel about me? Well it's either 'Good on you Simon' 'Quiet, I'm watching telly' 'You're only like this because of a girl' or 'Shut up for a sec, who would you rather shag...........'
Now I have a few questions for you Shad.
Is it right that children are dying as we speak because a Swiss company is so desparate for a sale, they will push products whilst at the same time, refusing to point out that the same product is very very dangerous?
Don't workers have the right to fair conditions without running the risk of being murdered by the boss?
Should the Burmese dictatorship be supported by the West and it's corporations?
Are starvation wages good for workers?
Is it fair to pollute somebodys land without giving anything back to the community you destroyed? Especially since you made stupid amounts of money from the deal? Furthermore, would you deal with a nation you know are willing to kill for you if need be?
Is the Kyoto agreement a bad thing?
Should people have their houses demolished strictly on the basis of their race?
Should animals be tested for cosmetics?
Most people will say they are all bad things - even if it is too hard for them to change their ways.
I'm wondering - because you're obviously not apathetic - if you can answer any of those questions with a resounding yes. If you can't then why are you so offended by me?
My opinions on fossil fuels and that. Public transport is sustainable. If everybody, like me, used nothing but public transport to go long distances then the damage done to earth would be insignificant. So now you made me think about it, I don't feel guilty anymore about riding the bus.
If alternate fuels are given just less then 1% of the investment used in oil extraction, they would be very competitive with oil. But this isn't going to happen. This is because of arsehole companies like Esso.
Esso enslaved mother nature to get where it is similar to the Americans only being where they are today through slavery. Reparations can only be expected. Naturally, they're nowhere to be seen and instead, they're using blood and feelers to get whatever's left of the black stuff they would die without. Esso have released a leaflet called 'How is Esso taking on the worlds toughest energy challenges?' which I picked up whilst I was on the road. In this leaflet it explains how it transports liquid gas (instead of gas gas) reduces emissions and uses 3-D seismic technology to look for oil and gas reserves instead of drills. All these items benefit Esso because they all save money for Esso and the company themselves are one of only a few that can drill for Oil and Gas. Any company can invest in renewable energy which makes them a threat to Esso and their monopoly of energy supply. Renewable energy will spell the end for Esso which is why they want no part of it until it becomes clear that the earth has been milked for all it's worth. As for growing my own food, well I'm learning, I can tell you that much.
Didn't I ask you earlier whether you would rather have scientists instead profit mongerers looking after your medicines?
As for the CA bit, I'm not after a rise from you in particular.
Hi Krizon
I like you more than SL. Thanks for shedding light on your pedigree - most appreciated. I'm quite impressed that you're related to Harry Pollitt especially since my Mum grew up in Droylsden and her folks have lived there for scores of years.
I think the last thing I want is everybody to be like me or think like me because that make the world a very boring place. I am not trying to create an anarchic army nor am I going to run around every high street in Britain launching bricks through the windows of any branded shop. I wouldn't expect anybody else to because that would create more 'opportunities for development' and the Police are very unsympathetic to any form of activism. (Unless of course you're a super rich kid who's chummy with the royals - then you can even get away with invading parliament)
Believe it or not, I used to be a meat eating, Aero chomping, Coke guzzling, Mobile Phone blarbing, Thomas Pink clad, big-house fast-car latest-gadgetry money hungry capitalist. I wouldn't have said I was stupid when I was that person, nor was I nasty or owt like that, but I was a little slow to ask how the world was beyond what I saw so essentially, I was pretty shallow. Getting my perspective on life from television, teachers, newspapers and bosses at the Royal Bank Of Scotland.
I used to be of the opinion that the West must be right because we don't see religious persecution. On 9/11, Osama Bin Laden was a bastard. How dare he attack the west!!! Fundamentalist nutjob! Which is fair enough but it never actually occured to me that 420,000 children worldwide died of starvation because of capitalism. Why would it? Unless I was looking for information on the same - I would never know.
I used to think that being English is something to be very proud of and why not? We beat the Germans in two world wars and one world cup. We used to have a great empire which was nothing but great for the world. England is great because we invented ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING. We freed the slaves and had nothing to do with exploiting them and any relationship we ever had with Africa was in the main good for them and if it turned out we were wrong - they'll forgive us like that because we're England and no fu<ker else is!!! Everytime a football team, boxer, musician etc was abroad representing England, they were also representing me, you and all of us.
We all have the opportunity to become millionaires and if we work hard enough at it, we all will be. More importantly, we will deserve it. Even though I was fascinated by numbers since I wanted to be a bookie, I was blissfully unaware of the notion that it's a mathematical impossibility for any more than a small few to be millionaires. The first time I thought about it was when I saw the words 'Profit Is Theft' scribed across the Eircom building - and my first reaction was don't be silly, you need help. I used to gamble like it was making me a good person - somebody more worthy than the dick next to me having a five pound bet. I did well, so well I won enough to have a few playboy nights out in Manchester and get me a dog who ran at Belle Vue. When my winning streak ended - I felt shit. Not because I was skint, that was a relief, but because the way I'd been behaving and also, the realisation of how fu<king pointless it is trying to be richer than the next person and how easily Thomas Pink shirts crease up.
I used to think that most of those who went on those anti-whatever protests were just a bunch of middle class students who were just out there to out-moral eachother whilst trying to get on the telly. In retrospect - I was right about that one.
The point I'm making is that whilst I was born in a very working class setting, I wasn't born an anti-capitalist. That developed over time and I guess is still developing. When it first happened, I was still a little too proud to accept it, as if my life would have been a lie but after a few seconds, well Pride is a sin as well as Greed. I suppose I learned an awful lot being apathetic without actually knowing it at the time so in a way, that time wasn't wasted.
A great chunk of my family and friends are apathetic people who don't know about nor are they overly fussed about politics. I'm not going to dislike them for it, that would be wrong. How they feel about me? Well it's either 'Good on you Simon' 'Quiet, I'm watching telly' 'You're only like this because of a girl' or 'Shut up for a sec, who would you rather shag...........'
Now I have a few questions for you Shad.
Is it right that children are dying as we speak because a Swiss company is so desparate for a sale, they will push products whilst at the same time, refusing to point out that the same product is very very dangerous?
Don't workers have the right to fair conditions without running the risk of being murdered by the boss?
Should the Burmese dictatorship be supported by the West and it's corporations?
Are starvation wages good for workers?
Is it fair to pollute somebodys land without giving anything back to the community you destroyed? Especially since you made stupid amounts of money from the deal? Furthermore, would you deal with a nation you know are willing to kill for you if need be?
Is the Kyoto agreement a bad thing?
Should people have their houses demolished strictly on the basis of their race?
Should animals be tested for cosmetics?
Most people will say they are all bad things - even if it is too hard for them to change their ways.
I'm wondering - because you're obviously not apathetic - if you can answer any of those questions with a resounding yes. If you can't then why are you so offended by me?
My opinions on fossil fuels and that. Public transport is sustainable. If everybody, like me, used nothing but public transport to go long distances then the damage done to earth would be insignificant. So now you made me think about it, I don't feel guilty anymore about riding the bus.
If alternate fuels are given just less then 1% of the investment used in oil extraction, they would be very competitive with oil. But this isn't going to happen. This is because of arsehole companies like Esso.
Esso enslaved mother nature to get where it is similar to the Americans only being where they are today through slavery. Reparations can only be expected. Naturally, they're nowhere to be seen and instead, they're using blood and feelers to get whatever's left of the black stuff they would die without. Esso have released a leaflet called 'How is Esso taking on the worlds toughest energy challenges?' which I picked up whilst I was on the road. In this leaflet it explains how it transports liquid gas (instead of gas gas) reduces emissions and uses 3-D seismic technology to look for oil and gas reserves instead of drills. All these items benefit Esso because they all save money for Esso and the company themselves are one of only a few that can drill for Oil and Gas. Any company can invest in renewable energy which makes them a threat to Esso and their monopoly of energy supply. Renewable energy will spell the end for Esso which is why they want no part of it until it becomes clear that the earth has been milked for all it's worth. As for growing my own food, well I'm learning, I can tell you that much.
Didn't I ask you earlier whether you would rather have scientists instead profit mongerers looking after your medicines?
As for the CA bit, I'm not after a rise from you in particular.
Hi Krizon
I like you more than SL. Thanks for shedding light on your pedigree - most appreciated. I'm quite impressed that you're related to Harry Pollitt especially since my Mum grew up in Droylsden and her folks have lived there for scores of years.
Shadow Leader
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Rather than gobble the bait dangled on your line - I have a couple of questions for you, Kotkijet.
1) Have you entered our Royal Ascot competition?
2) Do you have any fancies for Royal Ascot at York?
3) What did you think of this year's Derby? We have plenty of threads in the horseracing section about it that you could contribute to.
4) If you don't like flat racing, got any horses you are looking forward to seeing out over the sticks in the autumn?
5) Do you wish to join in any other discussions on here rather than the two anti-capitalist rant threads you have opened? Would you like to contribute on any other threads without encouraging someone to boycott something or other?
Just wondered....
1) Have you entered our Royal Ascot competition?
2) Do you have any fancies for Royal Ascot at York?
3) What did you think of this year's Derby? We have plenty of threads in the horseracing section about it that you could contribute to.
4) If you don't like flat racing, got any horses you are looking forward to seeing out over the sticks in the autumn?
5) Do you wish to join in any other discussions on here rather than the two anti-capitalist rant threads you have opened? Would you like to contribute on any other threads without encouraging someone to boycott something or other?
Just wondered....
Hi Homer J
Sorry, forgot to mention the Hilton group. I don't like Will Hill much but that's about something personal.
Hi Shad
Rather than gobble the bait dangled on your line -
You don't want to answer my questions because you can't without making yourself look silly. I'd rather you were just a little more honest with me.
In the spirit of free conversation, I will answer your questions even though they have nothing to do with the thread.
1. Can you see my entry?
2. Fancies no because I don't gamble anymore. But I still have some opinions - Rakti and Dubawi look good today. Looking forward to seeing Soviet Song comeback tomorrow though it will be nice to see Airwave finally fulfil the promise of her Temple Stakes win a few year back - though it may well turn out that she was just precocious after all. Azamour is overrated and Ouija Board will run him into the ground. I like Bow Bridge in the Queen Mary though I wish Ooh Aah Camara well because I picked her out when she ran at Doncaster at the start of the season. That and I thought her jockey was well fit when she appeared on the girly show. Classic Encounter was very impressive at Newmarket and the clash with Strike Up The Band could be a highlight of the week - even though there are probably 3/4 other horses in the race in with a loud shout. Westerner Vs Vinnie Roe Vs Papineau should be a race to saviour.
3. It was a good renewal and though I wanted Dubawi to win for his dad, Motivator is much the worthiest winner of the race since High Chapparal.
4. I've always prefered jumps racing because the stars stay around for a fair bit longer. Asian Maze was very impressive at Punchestown and given that the Baracouda is on a decline and Rule Supreme is better over fences (in spite of his recurring inability to lift his feet of the ground) then if anything happens to Inglis Drever or if Asian Maze can improve by a stone then she will be a very serious contender for the Stayers (not the World hurdle). Want something darker? How about No Refuge? On the flat, his best British effort was on the demanding Goodwood course when he was only 3 years old and I have a feeling that Mr Howard Johnson has the Champion Hurdle in mind for this one. No Refuge had an easy first season over the sticks without even being tried over 2 miles. Don't worry about him winning the staying novice hurdle at Cheltenham, it's the very race won by Hardy Eustace and Istabraq before they went on to win multiple Champ hurdles.
5. My post in Sad News is very much about horse racing and explains why I'm not overly enthusiastic about this years pretentious festivities.
I could have made the evil companies poll in an anarchy room but then everybody would be agreeing with me and I wouldn't really learn much, nor would I be able to get another perspective on why I'm an anti-capitalist. By using a room which is about a pastime generally associated with sophisticated capitalism - well, it's much more fun than preaching to nodding dogs.
Sorry, forgot to mention the Hilton group. I don't like Will Hill much but that's about something personal.
Hi Shad
Rather than gobble the bait dangled on your line -
You don't want to answer my questions because you can't without making yourself look silly. I'd rather you were just a little more honest with me.
In the spirit of free conversation, I will answer your questions even though they have nothing to do with the thread.
1. Can you see my entry?
2. Fancies no because I don't gamble anymore. But I still have some opinions - Rakti and Dubawi look good today. Looking forward to seeing Soviet Song comeback tomorrow though it will be nice to see Airwave finally fulfil the promise of her Temple Stakes win a few year back - though it may well turn out that she was just precocious after all. Azamour is overrated and Ouija Board will run him into the ground. I like Bow Bridge in the Queen Mary though I wish Ooh Aah Camara well because I picked her out when she ran at Doncaster at the start of the season. That and I thought her jockey was well fit when she appeared on the girly show. Classic Encounter was very impressive at Newmarket and the clash with Strike Up The Band could be a highlight of the week - even though there are probably 3/4 other horses in the race in with a loud shout. Westerner Vs Vinnie Roe Vs Papineau should be a race to saviour.
3. It was a good renewal and though I wanted Dubawi to win for his dad, Motivator is much the worthiest winner of the race since High Chapparal.
4. I've always prefered jumps racing because the stars stay around for a fair bit longer. Asian Maze was very impressive at Punchestown and given that the Baracouda is on a decline and Rule Supreme is better over fences (in spite of his recurring inability to lift his feet of the ground) then if anything happens to Inglis Drever or if Asian Maze can improve by a stone then she will be a very serious contender for the Stayers (not the World hurdle). Want something darker? How about No Refuge? On the flat, his best British effort was on the demanding Goodwood course when he was only 3 years old and I have a feeling that Mr Howard Johnson has the Champion Hurdle in mind for this one. No Refuge had an easy first season over the sticks without even being tried over 2 miles. Don't worry about him winning the staying novice hurdle at Cheltenham, it's the very race won by Hardy Eustace and Istabraq before they went on to win multiple Champ hurdles.
5. My post in Sad News is very much about horse racing and explains why I'm not overly enthusiastic about this years pretentious festivities.
I could have made the evil companies poll in an anarchy room but then everybody would be agreeing with me and I wouldn't really learn much, nor would I be able to get another perspective on why I'm an anti-capitalist. By using a room which is about a pastime generally associated with sophisticated capitalism - well, it's much more fun than preaching to nodding dogs.
Shadow Leader
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- 9,884
Here's the honest reply - I cannot be arsed. I have better things to do than reply to someone who clearly has some kind of hidden agenda.
simmo
Senior Jockey
I was under the impression that the traditional route was Poland or Belgium, then the world?
Honest Tom
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The heads go back in the sand when the good weather comes in kotkijet.
For HT
They have a double meaning - they resemble a chuckle as well as sunshine!
Brilliant post
Hi SL
Regarding your penultimate post - ''I have a couple of questions for you, Kotkijet.'' - then you go on to ask me 5.
Being a member of CA and all, I'm worried about your arithmatics - especially since you seem to think that 59% of the public support hunting.
According to this http://www.mori.com/polls/1999/ms990715.shtml - you're pretty misguided mate!
*sorry, I couldn't resist a cheap shot! - I'm getting a bit of a rush chasing vicious yet defenceless cretins around. Especially because I know that the chase will end in either the cretins time in it's own home being a dreadful experience or a nice and bloody slaughter. God I feel like such a man, now where did I put that Sherry?*
They have a double meaning - they resemble a chuckle as well as sunshine!
Brilliant post
Hi SL
Regarding your penultimate post - ''I have a couple of questions for you, Kotkijet.'' - then you go on to ask me 5.
Being a member of CA and all, I'm worried about your arithmatics - especially since you seem to think that 59% of the public support hunting.
According to this http://www.mori.com/polls/1999/ms990715.shtml - you're pretty misguided mate!
*sorry, I couldn't resist a cheap shot! - I'm getting a bit of a rush chasing vicious yet defenceless cretins around. Especially because I know that the chase will end in either the cretins time in it's own home being a dreadful experience or a nice and bloody slaughter. God I feel like such a man, now where did I put that Sherry?*
P
Phil Waters
Guest
Here's a more updated poll - contucted on behalf of the pro hunting countryfile
http://www.mori.com/polls/2005/bbc-countryfile.shtml
For all other mori polls
http://www.mori.com/polls/hunting.shtml
*This is not an endorsement for mori - I just trust them more than CA when it comes to popular opinion*
http://www.mori.com/polls/2005/bbc-countryfile.shtml
For all other mori polls
http://www.mori.com/polls/hunting.shtml
*This is not an endorsement for mori - I just trust them more than CA when it comes to popular opinion*
Shadow Leader
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Kotkijet, put away that sodding fishing line. I have better things to do than indulge you in playing your silly little games. As I said, you clearly have some kind of hidden agenda for posting on here, it sure as hell has nothing to do with wanting to discuss horseracing and more to do with adding another forum to the tally of ones you've signed up to with the express intention of having your anti-capitalist, seemingly anti-bloody-everything rants.
Oh, and where I live, the weather is always good....
Oh, and where I live, the weather is always good....
Honest Tom
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I live in a dark place
Shadow Leader
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I tell you what, Tom - as I'm such a kindly soul, I'll rent you my sofa for £300 a month... 
(& that will even include use of the pool!)
(& that will even include use of the pool!)