York Day 2

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At the Start
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May 2, 2003
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Location
Ireland
Lonsdale Cup:

Allegretto (IRE) 5.m
Bulwark (IRE) 6.g
Carte Diamond (USA) 7.g
Geordieland (FR) 7.h
Ghimaar 3.c
Mad Rush (USA) 4.c
Metaphoric (IRE) 4.g
Petara Bay (IRE) 4.c
Regal Flush 4.c
Royal And Regal (IRE) 4.c
Sagara (USA) 4.g
Septimus (IRE) 5.h
Sixties Icon 5.h
William Hogarth 3.c
Yellowstone (IRE) 4.c

Gimcrack:

Able Master (IRE) 2.c
Art Connoisseur (IRE) 2.c
Dabbers Chief (USA) 2.c
Deadly Secret (USA) 2.c
Deposer (IRE) 2.c
Effort 2.c
Jobe (USA) 2.c
Light The Fire (IRE) 2.c
Marine Boy (IRE) 2.g
Master Noverre (IRE) 2.g
Ouqba 2.c
Parisian Art (IRE) 2.c
Peter Tchaikovsky 2.c
Prolific (IRE) 2.c
Saxford 2.g
Shaweel 2.c
Spin Cycle (IRE) 2.c
Spinners End (IRE) 2.c
Sun Ship (IRE) 2.c
Tagula Breeze (IRE) 2.c
Weatherstaff (USA) 2.c
Zezao 2.c

Ebor:
Mad Rush (USA) 4.c
Yellowstone (IRE) 4.c
Red Gala 5.h
Sanbuch 4.c
Sugar Ray (IRE) 4.c
Carte Diamond (USA) 7.g
Bauer (IRE) 5.h
New Guinea 5.g
Supaseus 5.g
Bulwark (IRE) 6.g
Dansili Dancer 6.g
Young Mick 6.g
All The Good (IRE) 5.h
Ajaan 4.c
Al Eile (IRE) 8.g
Milne Graden 4.g
Camps Bay (USA) 4.c
Dunaskin (IRE) 8.g
Record Breaker (IRE) 4.g
Pevensey (IRE) 6.g
Hindu Kush (IRE) 3.c
Smart Instinct (USA) 4.g
Players Please (USA) 4.g
Wing Collar 7.g
Minkowski 5.g
Wicked Daze (IRE) 5.g
Salute Him (IRE) 5.g
Pippa Greene 4.c
Desert Sea (IRE) 5.g
Bureaucrat 6.g
Formax (FR) 6.g
Sahrati 4.c
Bogside Theatre (IRE) 4.f
Arc Bleu (GER) 7.g
Gee Dee Nen 5.g
Akarem 7.h
Kasthari (IRE) 9.g
Mudawin (IRE) 7.g
Tropical Strait (IRE) 5.g
La Vecchia Scuola (IRE) 4.f
Crete (IRE) 6.g
Birkside 5.g
Tifernati 4.g
Nanton (USA) 6.g
Coyote Creek 4.g
Risk (IRE) 5.g
Laterly (IRE) 3.g
Cool Judgement (IRE) 3.c
Whenever 4.c
Dancing Abbie (USA) 3.f
Inventor (IRE) 3.c
Trachonitis (IRE) 4.g
Fregate Island (IRE) 5.g
Invasian (IRE) 7.g
Rationale (IRE) 5.g
Toldo (IRE) 6.g
Amanda Carter 4.f
Yossi (IRE) 4.g
Judgethemoment (USA) 3.c
North Parade 3.c
Gordonsville 5.g
First Avenue 3.c
 
I think the Lonsdale will cut up badly as many of these have other entries and conditions will be perfect for Septimus.

The Ebor is wide open as usual. Hindu Kush, if he runs, has a half length victory over Winchester to his credit and looks like he is well handicapped based on that.
 
For this 4 day meeting to work they could do with taking 50K off of the prize fund for the Ebor and giving it to the Gimcrack - which is normally shit.
 
A good suggestion. The Gimcrack has been in decline in the last decade or so and it would be a shot in the arm both for it and juvenile racing in general if it was raised to Gr1 status. At the moment there is quite a gap between the Phoenix Stakes and the Newmarket Group 1s which a revived Gimcrack could fill nicely.
 
The Gimcrack has been in decline in the last decade or so and it would be a shot in the arm both for it and juvenile racing in general if it was raised to Gr1 status.
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Vicious circle though - it's not going to get upgraded unless the quality improves.

Did it used to be a Group 1 in the early days of the Pattern? Or am I mixing it up with the Flying Childers?
 
The Morny is in France, where the French have pretty much their own programme in any case, and the National Stakes is on Sep 13.

The Phoenix Stakes (or 1500 as it used to be known) was given a huge bump in prize money and status back in the 80s in order to encourage the better juveniles to be brought to the track sooner. It has been a partial success. It got off to a great start with some terrific races - Minstrella duelling with Forest Flower was one of my great memories of the old Phoenix Park.

After a dodgy period when it was being won by relative nonentities (Bradawn Breever, anyone?), and its Gr1 status was coming under serious threat, the current 'ownership' of the race by Ballydoyle (10 wins in the last 12?) at least guarantees a high degree of quality whatever about competitiveness.

The French seem to have almost given up on summer juvenile racing and many of the top English stables also prefer to put away their charges until their second season after a gentle introduction in a Class 4 maiden.

Upgrading the Gimcrack would encourage more trainers in England to have their charges ready earlier in the season, given that there would be both it and the 1500 to go for and a better lead in to the autumn programme.
 
Powerscourt said:
The Ebor is wide open as usual. Hindu Kush, if he runs, has a half length victory over Winchester to his credit and looks like he is well handicapped based on that.
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Isn't that conveniently ignoring the fact that Winchester showed much-improved from on anything he'd done in Ireland if you take his American form literally, and also ignoring that Hindu Kush got a very soft lead in a race run in a really poor time.
 
davidjohnson said:
Isn't that conveniently ignoring the fact that Winchester showed much-improved from on anything he'd done in Ireland if you take his American form literally, and also ignoring that Hindu Kush got a very soft lead in a race run in a really poor time.
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I think that's fair, in hindsight the secretariat was always his target. He did not progress as expected after his maiden win as expected. He was being minded.
 
If Ascot and Sandown hasn't mashed up Ajaan's head (which is a definite possibility) he's a ridiculously big price at 25's for the Ebor. Softish ground, decent pace off which he'll travel should prove his optimum conditions. Should be more like 12's.
 
This gets more confusing...DJ

You knock one Cecil's (winning) form from his last race and yet put Ajaan up (at the same price) too

I thought Ajaan's last run was a little disappointing
 
Sheikh said:
I think that's fair, in hindsight the secretariat was always his target. He did not progress as expected after his maiden win as expected. He was being minded.
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I had put that down largely to the fast ground he had subsequently raced on (as had Weld) at Ascot and the Curragh. For him then to come out and hose up in America was a fair shock to say the least! He did run on lasix in the Secretariat though.. :cool:
 
clivex said:
This gets more confusing...DJ

You knock one Cecil's (winning) form from his last race and yet put Ajaan up (at the same price) too

I thought Ajaan's last run was a little disappointing
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Clivex. That's because I view each individual horse on their merits and weigh them up against the likely opposition. Ajaan's last 2 runs have been disappointing I agree, though with excuses for both imo. He clearly didn't stay at Ascot and may have found the race coming too soon at Sandown. Hopefully with a decent break he should be able to get back to the progressive form where he beat the likes of Sanbuch and Halla whilst barely coming off the bridle. Basically I think he's got a much better chance than his odds suggest, comments I don't feel apply to Multidimensional.
 
Sheikh said:
I think that's fair, in hindsight the secretariat was always his target. He did not progress as expected after his maiden win as expected. He was being minded.
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Even allowing for Winchester showing marked improvement in America, his defeat of Lisvale and More Wells over 10 furlongs reads well particularly when you can only imagine the step up in trip is likely to suit plus an ease in the ground. Aside from that run 5 lengths off Alessandro Volta & less off the likes of Washington Irving and Hebridean reads pretty well.

My favourite handicap of the year bar none.
 
Galileo said:
There are enough Group 1's for two year olds.
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Agreed, I would say however that the French don`t seem that bothered about bringing there good horses out as 2 year olds so i`d be perfectly willing to downgrade the Morny. Upgrading the Gymcrack wasn`t my gist though, just a hefty increase in prize money would surely attract a better field.
 
DJ

I was being a bit flippant :)

On that form he would have a chance True he didnt stay at Ascot but very rarely back a horse that has just had an appalling run..at any price

Although i would never unestimate Henry's skill

I am certain that multidimensional will not be 25/1 (he isnt now most places) if the expected downpour occurs

Havent made up my mind yet, but i do like a tough horse for races like this and Young mick fits that bill. About the same mark as last year and was last years renewal stronger perhaps?
 
trackside528 said:
I had put that down largely to the fast ground he had subsequently raced on (as had Weld) at Ascot and the Curragh. For him then to come out and hose up in America was a fair shock to say the least! He did run on lasix in the Secretariat though.. :cool:
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Kinda Welds modus operandi, when it comes to one he's gearing up for the states, winchester fit the profile.
 
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