The Champion Chase 2010

Silly? I would say a little ridiculous. Words put in mouth doesn't even come close.

can you please stop making it like I am personally offending you by commenting on anything to do with 2 mile chasing.
 
you are not personally offending me at all and you are well able to stand up and argue your point
 
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You seem to take every point I make as an affront against Big Zeb, and feel the need to respond in defence of him. Yes, Twist Magic is limited (seems he is the ultimate non-cheltenham horse), no, i don't think he is the best 2 mile chaser, but I thought his performance in the Tingle Creek was fantastic, and probably the best of the season (or last, so this isn't an 'attack' on BZ).
 
I think it's a fair comment to make, re: Big Zeb at Sandown, that a horse never really travelling will jump quite ponderously and struggle generally. Was Kauto right at Cheltenham? Probably not, and it manifested itself in the jumping errors....

Ground conditions at Sandown never likely to suit FPTP...he's a markedly better horse on a better surface. Sure he couldn't even beat Herecomesthetruth at Down Royal [albeit over 2m 4]
 
Bobbyjo said:
Ground conditions at Sandown never likely to suit FPTP...he's a markedly better horse on a better surface. Sure he couldn't even beat Herecomesthetruth at Down Royal [albeit over 2m 4]
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True - should also be pointed out Big Zeb has relished a sound surface everytime he has got it too.
 
I think it's a fair comment to make, re: Big Zeb at Sandown, that a horse never really travelling will jump quite ponderously and struggle generally. Was Kauto right at Cheltenham? Probably not, and it manifested itself in the jumping errors....
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I'd agree with that.
 
To be it was Big Zeb's movement in between the fences at Sandown that led to the mistakes - I was never happy with him from the off that day.
 
clivex said:
I dont think anyone who saw Moscow Flyer/Azerty/wellchief Tingle Creek would say that

Well, if thats Big Zebs schedule then they are always going to leave themselves open to the accusation that they avoided the number two race NH 2 mile chase run over the most exciting and perhaps challenging circuit in the sport
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Meant Tongue in cheek.Flagship Uberallas and Direct routes tingle creek is one of my favourite races of all time.
 
redhead said:
Ruby reported after the race that MM was never letting himself down on the ground.
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its a bit strange then as MM didn't seem to have a problem in similar ground at Newbury 13 Feb when the race time was just shy of RP standard by 0.46 seconds..very similar to time of CC which was just faster than RP standard?
 
EC1 said:
its a bit strange then as MM didn't seem to have a problem in similar ground at Newbury 13 Feb when the race time was just shy of RP standard by 0.46 seconds..very similar to time of CC which was just faster than RP standard?
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Always seems to be an excuse for horses in this yard
 
It's beginning to seem that way MJ. A notable inference after the Gold Cup was that age is catching up with Kauto Star.

Maybe the yard is so used to dominating now that it is difficult to accept a bad patch. Haven't heard any excuses from Alan King.
 
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Are you trying to say Master Minded ran to his best form? He quite obviously didn't. The media and punters demand to know why, and Nicholls\Walsh are considerate enough to speculate as to why this may have been so. They should be congratulated for doing so rather than being on the receiving end of sly digs.
 
There was a difference in going between Newbury and Cheltenham which wouldn't necessarily be borne out by race times; the track at cheltenham was unusually bare of proper grass cover meaning that it provided less cushion than one would expect. One trainer described the going as "having plenty of slap in it". I think it's fair to say that Master Minded wasn't letting himself down on it, although it's debatable whether he would have won even if he produced last season's performance in the race.
 
I agree Melendez, i'd rather hear a possible reasoning for a bad run and make my own mind up whether to believe it or not. As opposed to hearing nothing at all.

I do think it ironic though that pre-gold cup Nicholls had been saying Kauto Star looked bomb proof and there was no reason why he couldn't go on and win four or five gold cups. Then to infer afterwards that age was the reason for his bad run. It strikes a par with boxers to me. Unequivocally won't hear of defeat pre-fight and then after they're beat they get a reality check.
 
rorydelargy said:
There was a difference in going between Newbury and Cheltenham which wouldn't necessarily be borne out by race times; the track at cheltenham was unusually bare of proper grass cover meaning that it provided less cushion than one would expect. One trainer described the going as "having plenty of slap in it". I think it's fair to say that Master Minded wasn't letting himself down on it, although it's debatable whether he would have won even if he produced last season's performance in the race.
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that seems plausible to me Rory

checking through MM's form he has been beaten on true good ground before...so you are probably right
 
Melendez said:
Are you trying to say Master Minded ran to his best form? He quite obviously didn't. The media and punters demand to know why, and Nicholls\Walsh are considerate enough to speculate as to why this may have been so. They should be congratulated for doing so rather than being on the receiving end of sly digs.
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Far from it Melendez. He was uncomfortable and trying to lug right at times. Didn't look brilliant in the paddock (few of Nicholls's did this year). Maybe the combination of the ground and an undulating track could be the explanation.

As to the sly digs, nothing sly about saying something straight out and I am in agreement with Hezz's later statement, having said something similar on another thread regarding the Aon Chase.
 
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