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Ascot Take Outs Day 5

I think it was an astute observation by Mrs Barnestormer.

No Luke Harveyesque comedy character during football coverage, cricket or many other sports.

That's because there's a belief in those spheres that the sport sells itself.

Racing lost belief in itself years ago and the key way most people engage with racing - by having a bet to morph it from other people's horses running round a field into something the viewer actually has a meaningful interest in the outcome of - has been allowed to become socially shameful.

It stems from the top (the BHA) and ITV, who they sold the rights to, clearly don't believe in it either.

It's all a far cry from the ITV7 on World Of Sport back in the day when there was real belief that seven quick fire races - and the chance for punters to get a seven-horse acca up - sold the game all on its own.
 
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Barnestormer said:
On Saturday I was switching between the Test Match and ITV racing.
My wife loves cricket but not so horse racing as she hates to see animals hurt.
She turned to me and said why is it that the commentators and presenters of the cricket are more professional and the horse racing presenters seem more like game show hosts.
I said I don't know how would you improve it.
To which she replied:
"They could approach Ant & Dec"
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There's the problem. Inane, conversation, awful faux europop music, home schooling, desperately searching for anything heart wrenching ( that's you Chamberlain ), + I haven't even mentioned Chapman yet 🤣. I can listen to Blake + Weaver , but the negatives have outweighed them two.
 
Ian_Davies said:
I think it was an astute observation by Mrs Barnestormer.

No Luke Harveyesque comedy character during football coverage, cricket or many other sports.

That's because there's a belief in those spheres that the sport sells itself.

Racing lost belief in itself years ago and the key way most people engage with racing - by having a bet to morph it from other people's horses running round a field into something the viewer actually has a meaningful interest in the outcome of - has been allowed to become socially shameful.

It stems from the top (the BHA) and ITV, who they sold the rights to, clearly don't believe in it either.

It's all a far cry from the ITV7 on World Of Sport back in the day when there was real belief that seven quick fire races - and the chance for punters to get a seven-horse acca up - sold the game all on its own.
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To be fair, in the old days, when World of Sport and Grandstand covered racing they were part of a sports programme, which switched to Racing shortly before the race and back away from it shortly after the race finished. So we didn’t have all the jibber jabber and an army of presenters and features weren’t required (not that they necessarily are now). However, for each day of Royal Ascot, ITV are on air for about 5 hours, of which the actual race takes up about 15 minutes. So, if Racing wants this coverage, and overall it is very beneficial to the sport that more people are exposed to it, then you are going to get plenty of nonsense to be waded through, to see the bits of interest. I usually record it all and fast forward to the bits I think are of interest. This is usually the race, the replays from different angles and the odd feature. Home Schooling is great and I always try to watch that.

Mrs Barnestormer may be wiser than the rest of us her though. With all the time ITV have to play with, Ant and Dec could indeed fill the gaps and we could all be nominating are own least favourite presenters for Bushtucker trials, Ken can be judging the best turned out Kangaroo penis, Chapman could do that one where they put their head (leave his top hat on) in a Perspex globe and get loads of creepy crawlies dumped in there with them. That might keep his mouth closed for a while. We could all choose your own presenters to have to empty the team Dunny at the end of each day too (it seems fitting it should be the ones you think are full of shit).

Might need a bit of work, but this could be the way forward for ITV Racing.
 
There are features on RTV/Sky in which they look back at a race within five or so minutes to analyse the pace, sectionals, etc. ITV would be better doing that than wandering off among picnickers giving them 15 seconds of TV 'fame'.

The views of the beaten jockeys segment is often informative so worth persevering with, plus it gives jockeys the chance to practise their media-facing skills as a possible future career. Murphy is very polished at this, if a bit deliberate, as though he's trying to remember rehearsed lines (which is almost certainly the case).

It would be worthwhile, I think, investing a bit more in TPD who are opening my mind to new stuff all the time.

To paraphrase a line in 12 Angry Men, I'm just running these ideas up the flagpole to see who salutes them.
 
What I find absolutely amazing is comments on this thread from grown ups ??? Who openly admit to watching “ON MUTE” and even slyly try to convince others to do the same even being able to think that they have a balanced view 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣………can’t put brains in a coconut can you……….don’t be offended the biggest culprit will not even see this post 😉
 
Does anyone ever watch the NBC coverage and just think, “Jesus, this is actually very watchable”? I always feel like that’s what ITV is aiming for — but instead, they try to be all things to all people.

They chase the TikTok generation by wheeling out influencers.
They cater to the housewives with the fashion slots (yes, I know it’s 2025 and I’m not allowed to say that).
They flatter the mug punter by pretending Kevin Blake is a genius.
They cover the welfare angle by reminding us every five minutes how well the horses are looked after.
They got Chapman out of the betting ring and added Brian Gleeson instead — their version of John McCririck, the betting ring reporter equivalent of asking for the cheapest beer when you walk into a pub.
They throw in Sir Anthony Peter McCoy to keep the existentially numb from reaching for the rope — proof that monotone mediocrity can still get you knighted.
They nod to the serious punter by letting Richard Hoiles whisper about ground splits and sectional times.
They’ve got Ken Peterson on because, well, because he’s black. There are plenty of token gays too. They’d have been better off ripping the whole thing up at the start — and rather than giving us Luke Harvey, just give us a bird with massive tits. The output would be the same, but at least you’d tune in.
 
Desert Orchid said:
There are features on RTV/Sky in which they look back at a race within five or so minutes to analyse the pace, sectionals, etc. ITV would be better doing that than wandering off among picnickers giving them 15 seconds of TV 'fame'.

The views of the beaten jockeys segment is often informative so worth persevering with, plus it gives jockeys the chance to practise their media-facing skills as a possible future career. Murphy is very polished at this, if a bit deliberate, as though he's trying to remember rehearsed lines (which is almost certainly the case).

It would be worthwhile, I think, investing a bit more in TPD who are opening my mind to new stuff all the time.

To paraphrase a line in 12 Angry Men, I'm just running these ideas up the flagpole to see who salutes them.
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Yes, the beaten jockeys segment is very good. In general, interviews with jockeys and trainers can be informative. You might only get something that feels actionable one time in twenty — maybe even less — but if it helps you back one extra winner, it’s worth it.
 
ITV is a business, they seek to maximise audience figures because the bigger the audience, the bigger the advertising revenue. You cannot maximise the audience by appealing just to the die-hard racing enthusiast and it has to be geared to a much wider audience. If on the way you get some of the wider audience converted to become racing enthusiasts, then the future of the sport is that little more secure. For my money, that’s worth putting up with the flim flam and irritants, because there’s precious little else that encourages people towards racing nowadays.
 
barjon said:
ITV is a business, they seek to maximise audience figures because the bigger the audience, the bigger the advertising revenue. You cannot maximise the audience by appealing just to the die-hard racing enthusiast and it has to be geared to a much wider audience. If on the way you get some of the wider audience converted to become racing enthusiasts, then the future of the sport is that little more secure. For my money, that’s worth putting up with the flim flam and irritants, because there’s precious little else that encourages people towards racing nowadays.
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I totally get all that, but from a personal point of view, I can't really watch it anymore, mapart from the races themselves.
 
barjon said:
ITV is a business, they seek to maximise audience figures because the bigger the audience, the bigger the advertising revenue. You cannot maximise the audience by appealing just to the die-hard racing enthusiast and it has to be geared to a much wider audience. If on the way you get some of the wider audience converted to become racing enthusiasts, then the future of the sport is that little more secure. For my money, that’s worth putting up with the flim flam and irritants, because there’s precious little else that encourages people towards racing nowadays.
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Exactly, they don't make the coverage in the image of the horse racing experts or fanatics like us, it's a peculiar sport, in the sense it's clearly not like football where people talk a common universal language.

If anything it's more like Snooker. You have your experts, but you also have a more general audience, which the broadcaster tries to reach out to.

Since the BBC dumped coverage I have to say I'm just greatful to have the sport on a channel like ITV.
 
Slim said:
Does anyone ever watch the NBC coverage and just think, “Jesus, this is actually very watchable”?
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No, but I've watched american programmes analysing football (soccer) and it is light years ahead of ours. It's like they know they're trying to catch up on 100 years of the game so are focused on tactics and formation as opposed to the very superficial brain-dead stuff on our programmes.
 
barjon said:
ITV is a business, they seek to maximise audience figures because the bigger the audience, the bigger the advertising revenue. You cannot maximise the audience by appealing just to the die-hard racing enthusiast and it has to be geared to a much wider audience. If on the way you get some of the wider audience converted to become racing enthusiasts, then the future of the sport is that little more secure. For my money, that’s worth putting up with the flim flam and irritants, because there’s precious little else that encourages people towards racing nowadays.
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Yes, it is a business, but viewing figures are DOWN so the current format, while as you say is designed to maximise audiences, clearly isn't working.

Racing once sold itself on the betting hook - even Dick Francis's autobiography offered mini-tuition not only about racing itself but how to have a bet and engage with the sport.

Literally everyone in the game accepted betting was what drew people in and, back then, distinguished it from other sports.

Racing was proud of the betting USP as it was then.

Somewhere along the line that got lost.

The great thing about USA racing TV coverage is that they still believe the main reason why the viewer is watching is because they're having a bet.

They're not ashamed of focussing on the betting.

Casual viewers who turn in to watch fashion won't become racing fans any more than a child taken racing and spending the entire day on a bouncy castle and never seeing a race will.

Test your judgement, pick a horse, cheer it on and see if you get it right is the way to get newcomers to engage.

USA racing coverage makes ITV Racing look like the utter embarrassment it is - and the numbers show even the daytime TV audience is losing interest.
 
If people want the expert channel, pay the expert money, that's how it is isn't it?

Can anyone get Racing TV to take over ITV racing? 😂

If ITV suddenly started showing live Premier League games I wouldn't complain at the coverage, I'd just be pleased I didn't have one added subscription to Sky Sports. 😂
 
Ian_Davies said:
Yes, it is a business, but viewing figures are DOWN so the current format, while as you say is designed to maximise audiences, clearly isn't working.

Racing once sold itself on the betting hook - even Dick Francis's autobiography offered mini-tuition not only about racing itself but how to have a bet and engage with the sport.

Literally everyone in the game accepted betting was what drew people in and, back then, distinguished it from other sports.

Racing was proud of the betting USP as it was then.

Somewhere along the line that got lost.

The great thing about USA racing TV coverage is that they still believe the main reason why the viewer is watching is because they're having a bet.

They're not ashamed of focussing on the betting.

Casual viewers who turn in to watch fashion won't become racing fans any more than a child taken racing and spending the entire day on a bouncy castle and never seeing a race will.

Test your judgement, pick a horse, cheer it on and see if you get it right is the way to get newcomers to engage.

USA racing coverage makes ITV Racing look like the utter embarrassment it is - and the numbers show even the daytime TV audience is losing interest.
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Attendance figures for Epsom were down on Derby Day too, Ian. That has precious little to do with I.T.V. The same thing with Cheltenham, and it's nothing to do with I.T.V.

Ultimately, along with all the animal rights snobs and activists, we have to accept this sport is not everyone's cup of tea. Hours, weeks, months of debate even, for events that on average probably last between 1 and 2 minutes.

If football matches lasted the same duration I'm sure they'd have the same problem.

Given racing is such a niche sport you could argue it punched above it's weight for a very long time, but perhaps that time has come to end. That's why I always tryed to give the likes on Frankie Dettori a bit of slack, because people like him kept people interested in the sport.

So the did the characters aswell, John McCririck and alike, but he was far from everyone's cup of tea. Some people can barely stand Matt Chapman. The bloke is nothing to the likes of Big Mac. He's like a pint of shandy to a glass of rum.
 
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The Fortune Teller said:
Attendance figures for Epsom were down on Derby Day too, Ian.
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Attendances and TV audience viewing figures are two different things.

Royal Ascot attendances were 5% up and imo deservedly so - it's on my doorstep and I've only ever bothered to go twice, but even the chippiest Republican Socialist 😂 would admit Royal Ascot is light years ahead of the Cheltenham Festival and The Derby Meeting on Epsom Downs in terms of value for money.

TV is a different thing - I totally get the argument about the ITV business model, but their own numbers show they've got problems.

Millions used to watch the ITV7 on World Of Sport - yes, that was pre-internet and there were only terrestrial channels then, but a simple format of seven races, one every 15 minutes from, say, 1.30pm-3.00pm with no frills was just the ticket.

It was quick tip from the host at each meeting, card on-screen graphic, betting show on-screen graphic, the race, a replay and the result on-screen graphic then off to the next one.

As stated previously, I think Luke Harvey is a really nice bloke, but anyone who thinks things like him in a swimming pool with a top hat on is going to grow racing and boost Levy revenue needs to go easy on the happy tablets. 😂
 
Yes, Ian, like many things the minority “shout the loudest” brigade bugger it up for the vast majority. In this case trying to protect the “problem gambler” is turning gambling into a dirty word, inconveniencing the vast majority and stopping many of them dead in their tracks. The rub is that many a problem gambler will just go black market, so what is undoubtedly a real problem for some is just shifted along elsewhere and remains for them.
 

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