1.30 Southwell

Just watched the video from earlier, I love the way it finishes regarding the use of the whip on Only If I Laugh, his words are 'they are trying to ......err......look' & no doubt I presume he goes on to tell another tall tale:rolleyes:
 
While not suggesting he would have won or indeed in the same league as Mr McKeown, but Ruby Walsh never really put Equus Maximus in the last there at Thurles did he? And I have NOT backed it!
 
Well if it's any consolation, I backed Naiad du Missellot, and didn't need Glee's laughable attempts at legerdemain up the straight to tell me I had picked the wrong day - the alarming pre-off drift out to 8.odd on BF had already marked my card nicely.
 
Happens all too often in Irish Beginners Chases I´m afraid Gal. Can´t remember how many times he ran that season but the year that Ballytrim was in the Beginners Chases - it´s like if you can´t win one it´s far better to be 12th of 16 finishers than 5th or 6th.
 
Galileo said:
While not suggesting he would have won or indeed in the same league as Mr McKeown, but Ruby Walsh never really put Equus Maximus in the last there at Thurles did he? And I have NOT backed it!
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Totally agree, Aidan. It's made all the more strange by the comments in-running:

"prominent, 3rd and no impression under pressure approaching 4 out, kept on same pace"

Walsh had made absolutely no effort whatsoever to put the horse into the race approaching 4 out, so to say he was "under pressure" is simply not true. What race was this guy watching?
 
Happens all the time at the big flat tracks with horses from big stables, only difference is there isn't any big money down.
 
Grasshopper said:
Well if it's any consolation, I backed Naiad du Missellot, and didn't need Glee's laughable attempts at legerdemain up the straight to tell me I had picked the wrong day - the alarming pre-off drift out to 8.odd on BF had already marked my card nicely.
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To be honest Murphy can't buy a winner at present and the horse has never won 1st time back after a break. It also made a serious error on the first circuit and never jumped which much fluency. He done well to get him round on four legs and after numerous jumping errors probably just got tired up the run in.
 
Flame said:
To be honest Murphy can't buy a winner at present and the horse has never won 1st time back after a break. It also made a serious error on the first circuit and never jumped which much fluency. He done well to get him round on four legs and after numerous jumping errors probably just got tired up the run in.
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Dean McKeown needs a press officer Flame... :p
 
Thanks for playing, Flame, but I wholeheartedly disagree. The horse was cantering all over them all the way up the straight - it had bugger-all to do with getting tired. The horse won the Coral Cup after a 100+ day break, so the lay-off is hardly an issue either.
 
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Can some one explain to me why the trainer states he was satified with the riding of Rascal in the mix
 
Grasshopper said:
Thanks for playing, Flame, but I wholeheartedly disagree. The horse was cantering all over them all the way up the straight - it had bugger-all to do with getting tired. The horse won the Coral Cup after a 100+ day break, so the lay-off is hardly an issue either.
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I was actually giving my opinion not trying to stir. I actually though Graham done very well to stay on him on more than one occasion, and I think he was worried to ask for a big one at the last, because the lap before he nearly got unseated at it. He hit the front went half a length up but got run back out of it by a tough horse, I'm not sure what Graham was supposed to do. Also He led jumping the last so whilst he held on to him for a long time, it wasn't as if he flew up late, he actually hit the front and got worn down. Had he kicked sooner, he may have stopped quicker. It still doesn't take anything away from the fact the horse has never won on his seasonal reappearence, the Coral Cup was not that, it was after 100 days, for which I would say the break would have been for about 50 days max if it wasn't a case for him probably kept in training and just freshened up for the race. Also Ferdy Murphy hasn't been amongst the winners for a while, so that would have concerned me before backing this.

I'm not making excuses but to accuse Lee of not trying or not doing enough is a bit tough imo. McCoy dropped his stick at the 3rd on the fav and anyone who backed that knew their chance had gone when he continously ran lazily, that was no fault fo McCoys who done well to keep Coe on his feet at two fences afterwards. For me Graham Lee after 2 or 3 bad errors rode his mount to get round safely and when presented with a chance 2 out done as much as he could have been asked to do.

However I didn't back him, so not pocket talking, I didn't back the winner either, I had an ew on the 3rd (7 runners arrgghhh) and Coe was a big bet for me, who looked lazy and needs 3m.
 
socks said:
Can some one explain to me why the trainer states he was satified with the riding of Rascal in the mix
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Because as he says, its had problems and only in 2 months and the priority for him was to get her on the track and run well. In his eyes he's pleased with her, she's had a good experience and will come on alot for it. That doesn't mean she has run the race she should have but just means that she has had a good experience. The problem which lies here is that the horse didn't run to the best of its merit, unless the trainer backed it or the owners were desperate for prize money I don't see how you couldn't have been pleased with the run. In a 6f maiden in a few weeks she should win cosily, that is if they want her to, given the price she will be.
 
Flame,

Whitaker wasn't asked if he was pleased with the run, he was asked whether he was satisfied with the ride. Chalk and cheese.

I'm mostly in your camp re Naiad du Missellot though. Didn't Lee or Murphy suggest that the horse wouldn't be subjected to a gruelling race beforehand. That's the suggestion I get listening to the punditry on the video. Horse would probably have won if the kitchen sink was thrown at him, but I wouldn't slate Lee overmuch for that.
 
Sorry, misread that question, no I wouldn't have been happy with the ride, but the run yes. Sorry was thinking of the horse more than the crook.
 
rorydelargy said:
Flame,

Whitaker wasn't asked if he was pleased with the run, he was asked whether he was satisfied with the ride. Chalk and cheese.

I'm mostly in your camp re Naiad du Missellot though. Didn't Lee or Murphy suggest that the horse wouldn't be subjected to a gruelling race beforehand. That's the suggestion I get listening to the punditry on the video. Horse would probably have won if the kitchen sink was thrown at him, but I wouldn't slate Lee overmuch for that.
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Rory, I watched the race whilst on the blower to an owner in Murphy's yard. Even he thinks there was insufficient effort. The horse drifted out from around 4/1 to 15/2 on the exchanges in the 5 minutes before the race started.

I am not prone to venting about this type of thing, as I realise that it's an occupational hazard, and I only mentioned it when Ruby's ride in Ireland (which I didn't see) was brought up. But I do have a pair of eyes, and I'm quite happy to contest the notion that there is nothing to complain about. My eyes tell me that insufficient effort was made, ergo the horse was not given the opportunity to obtain it's best possible placing, ergo the ride was moody.

I'm not looking for my money back, or crying like a little girl with a skinned knee - I'm only offering my opinion on a subject (the ride) that can only ever be subjective.
 
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So answer me one question Grasshopper, when the Murphy horse hit the ditch face on and crumpled on landing and Lee was out the side door, and managed to get back in and then get him back jumping okay, before making another mistake at the top of the stretch and again giving time to re-find his feet, did you or your "owner from Murphy's" not think Graham had done well to keep the horse upright and therefore slowly producing him into his race, without forgetting he actually was about a length up at the last, that he may have actually given this horse a good ride in the circumstances, as likelihood was if he asked for another big un he could have been on the deck ?

If I owned that horse, I would have been pleased that he got the horses jumping together after 2 very serious mistakes and the fact he managed to get the horse so close in 2nd was a bonus.
 
I always re-watch these races if there's an argument and I stick to my original view. If I owned the horse and told the jockey to win at all costs I'd be very disappointed, but in the normal run of things the ride was perfectly ok. The winner rallied to fair effect and they pulled well clear given there were 5 with every chance two out. There is no way Graham Lee was trying to get the beast beaten. However, it was clear pre race that he wasn't going to have the kitchen sink thrown at him which explains the drift, especially if those views were expressed on air.
 
Flame said:
So answer me one question Grasshopper, when the Murphy horse hit the ditch face on and crumpled on landing and Lee was out the side door, and managed to get back in and then get him back jumping okay, before making another mistake at the top of the stretch and again giving time to re-find his feet, did you or your "owner from Murphy's" not think Graham had done well to keep the horse upright and therefore slowly producing him into his race, without forgetting he actually was about a length up at the last, that he may have actually given this horse a good ride in the circumstances, as likelihood was if he asked for another big un he could have been on the deck ?

If I owned that horse, I would have been pleased that he got the horses jumping together after 2 very serious mistakes and the fact he managed to get the horse so close in 2nd was a bonus.
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Hmmn. I suppose there is a case to be made that, if it wasn't off, the easiest thing to do would be to fall off when one of the errors was made.

Perhaps I am talking from my pocket, and from a position of thinking the yard are generally having it away all over the place.

Without having viewed the race again, I might be prepared to cede the point.
 
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