10 Grade 1s
- Thread starter Harbinger
- Start date
Bar the Bull
At the Start
When he won his first Ericsson, I have never been so excited about a horse. The world really did look at his feet. He travelled so well, and had a great turn of foot.
He will always be remembered for his failures in Britain, but in my eye he was a brilliant, tough and consistent racehorse.
He may never have peaked the heights he once looked capable of. I am not sure if that was down to a levelling off of his form, or due to his fall at Cheltenham.
He will always be remembered for his failures in Britain, but in my eye he was a brilliant, tough and consistent racehorse.
He may never have peaked the heights he once looked capable of. I am not sure if that was down to a levelling off of his form, or due to his fall at Cheltenham.
granger
Senior Jockey
There is a bit of beefy in all our hearts
N
numbersix
Guest
He was unfortunate to have been around the same time as Best Mate, and the Kauto Star, who somewhat took the spotlight away from him. If he had competed in a less competitive era (say the mid 90s) he may have been hailed as an all time great.
A bit like Florida Pearl, will always be given less credit than he deserves purely because he didn't win Gold Cups - a bit sad really. The NH season realy ought not to be all about one meeting.
A bit like Florida Pearl, will always be given less credit than he deserves purely because he didn't win Gold Cups - a bit sad really. The NH season realy ought not to be all about one meeting.
I'm not a fan of Hourigan, he has had a fair run of decent chasers but he has few enough winners for the amount of runners. I doubt, however, any other trainer would have done that much better with Beef or Salmon. They might have had him peak at a higher level but maybe not quite so often.
While I appreciate the form is a bit tainted, the magic moment has to be beating Best Mate at Leopardstown, with Mr Carberry joining in the fun and games.
While I appreciate the form is a bit tainted, the magic moment has to be beating Best Mate at Leopardstown, with Mr Carberry joining in the fun and games.
Sheikh
At the Start
Depends on your idea of a good trainer, he's kept BOS sound for a long time and he has done the same with others. Some of the 'top' trainers go through horses like hot dinners.
N
numbersix
Guest
It was ok until Carberry started showing disrespect to a great horse. Best Mate had to run the race with staples in his head due to an accident on the way over. Most trainers would have withdrawn the horse but connections felt they owed it to his Irish fans to run him. I was there that day and felt Carberry won few friends. Indeed it sadly detracted from Beef Or Salmon's moment of glory as well as people focused on Carberry's antics as much as the horse winning.
I dont know how to comment on the Hourigan thing, but the fact that his back problem wasnt diagnosed until well after a year following his fall, doesnt really say an awful lot. Until age started to slow him down, people always underestimated his speed. Beating the likes of Tiutchev over 2m4f (three weeks before Tiutchev finished second in the KG) showing far more speed than Edredon Bleu at Clonmel, despite not jumping one fence correctly. Despite his ten wins, he was a slightly unlucky horse.
G
Gearoid
Guest
Not to mention beating Rathgear Beau over 2 miles in Mallow when collecting 2 fences down the home straight. A seriously underrated animal.
Seriously overrated by some and seriously underrated by others 
.
You can't knock 10 Grade Ones though as Venusian said - just glad he has ended his career in one piece.
Funnily , enough although there were a number of excuses for others in the field that day and some were evidently on a decline - his most visually impressive performance was that first Ericsson .
He wasn't the first novice that shouldn't have run in the GC and I fear he won't be the last.
. You can't knock 10 Grade Ones though as Venusian said - just glad he has ended his career in one piece.
Funnily , enough although there were a number of excuses for others in the field that day and some were evidently on a decline - his most visually impressive performance was that first Ericsson .
He wasn't the first novice that shouldn't have run in the GC and I fear he won't be the last.
I heartily agree with that last sentiment, and would add that running horses too young in the GN is also a huge mistake
The GC and GN require both physical and mental maturity if a horse isn't to turn into a 'thinker' pdq!
Well done to Beefy for his great home record - I also agree that a horse shouldn't be traduced because it's not suited to Cheltenham, or gets sick travelling as some do [and I believe he did]
The GC and GN require both physical and mental maturity if a horse isn't to turn into a 'thinker' pdq!
Well done to Beefy for his great home record - I also agree that a horse shouldn't be traduced because it's not suited to Cheltenham, or gets sick travelling as some do [and I believe he did]
On RPR ratings, Best Mate only ever ran 2 better races than Beef or Salmon's Lexus win. Despite having a dozen excuses that day, none ever convinced me. The horse had won his third gold cup and was a desperate winner over Seebald in his prep (a race specially framed for him in which connections also said he shouldnt have run in afterwards). Despite all excuses, BM on the balance of his form wouldnt have been good enough. Some said that he was the third best steeplechaser of all time, despite being the fifth best chaser at the time of that lexus and his ratings have been eclipsed by two gold cup winners since.
Beef or Salmon had beaten the third in that gold cup by 5l a month before the race. Good enough to finish second in the gold cup on that form, and while I dont like Hourigan, he had every right to go for the race. He was unlucky.
Beef or Salmon had beaten the third in that gold cup by 5l a month before the race. Good enough to finish second in the gold cup on that form, and while I dont like Hourigan, he had every right to go for the race. He was unlucky.
On figures form, Best Mate would not have in this season in the top 4 chasers in England. I dont think at his best he would have beaten ED, NC, KS or Denman.
It was a combiantion of the horse being campaign very well to win the Gold cups, having some substandards fields and the horse acting perfect in the course.
On pure ability I just prefer BorS , but BM would beat him always at Chelt in good ground and BorS would beat him at Leop in soft ground.
It was a combiantion of the horse being campaign very well to win the Gold cups, having some substandards fields and the horse acting perfect in the course.
On pure ability I just prefer BorS , but BM would beat him always at Chelt in good ground and BorS would beat him at Leop in soft ground.
granger
Senior Jockey
You honestly dont think Best Mate would have beaten exotic Dancer?
granger
Senior Jockey
Will always be disagrements but on the biggest day of all for these steeplechasers, Gold Cup Day, Best Mate would out jump, out stay ED
N
numbersix
Guest
Why is running a novice in the Gold Cup such a bad thing? Especially since Beef Or Salmon's 4 victories as a "novice" prior to the Gold Cup were in open company?
Captain Christy was a novice in the Gold Cup and it didn't do him much harm did it? And until he fell fatally, Gloria Victis had run very well, and may even have won.
Often trainers have stated that the Gold Cup, particularly a sub-standard one, is a preferred route rather than the Sun Alliance which is considered a very hard race. I think it is probably asking a lot of a novice to take on really good animals, such as Denman or Kauto Star for instance.
But if you look back at some ot the poorer Gold Cups you do wonder if the top novice chaser of that year would have won the Gold Cup - Killiney 1973, Tied Cottage 1976, The West Awake 1988, Garrison Savannah 1990, Minnehoma 1992, Florida Pearl 1998, Looks Like Trouble/Nick Dundee 1999, Star De Mohaison 2006, Trabolgan 2005 and Denman 2007
I do wonder if those who are against running novices in the Gold Cup are influenced by the tragedy of Gloria Victis rather than having any real evidence to support the view that the Gold Cup is anymore harmful on a novice, either physically or mentally, than any other open Steeplechase. I agree pitching one in against seriously top class animals is not an ideal route, but if a field looks sub-standard then there is probably some merit in having a go.
Captain Christy was a novice in the Gold Cup and it didn't do him much harm did it? And until he fell fatally, Gloria Victis had run very well, and may even have won.
Often trainers have stated that the Gold Cup, particularly a sub-standard one, is a preferred route rather than the Sun Alliance which is considered a very hard race. I think it is probably asking a lot of a novice to take on really good animals, such as Denman or Kauto Star for instance.
But if you look back at some ot the poorer Gold Cups you do wonder if the top novice chaser of that year would have won the Gold Cup - Killiney 1973, Tied Cottage 1976, The West Awake 1988, Garrison Savannah 1990, Minnehoma 1992, Florida Pearl 1998, Looks Like Trouble/Nick Dundee 1999, Star De Mohaison 2006, Trabolgan 2005 and Denman 2007
I do wonder if those who are against running novices in the Gold Cup are influenced by the tragedy of Gloria Victis rather than having any real evidence to support the view that the Gold Cup is anymore harmful on a novice, either physically or mentally, than any other open Steeplechase. I agree pitching one in against seriously top class animals is not an ideal route, but if a field looks sub-standard then there is probably some merit in having a go.
EC1
On a break
winning a few egg and spoon races that other horses are using as a prep for real targets hardly makes a horse better than a 3 times gold cup winner
over the years never have i read such rubbish about a horse on various forums as I have about BOS
he was apparently the best chaser one year because in one egg and spooner he beat some half fit GC runners futher than the gold cup winner did. :laughing: ..what absolute bollox...supposed inteligent folk who I respected..and still do on various forums were creaming themselves over this one performance...was it the egg and spoon lexus one year?
BOS was a lovely consistent one paced plodder without the gears EVER to win a GC
reality is obviously clouded by rose tinted spectacles in regard to this animal
talk about using an animal to knock another...the jealousy of BOS supporters about Best Mate has always amused and saddened me all at the same time :dork:
over the years never have i read such rubbish about a horse on various forums as I have about BOS
he was apparently the best chaser one year because in one egg and spooner he beat some half fit GC runners futher than the gold cup winner did. :laughing: ..what absolute bollox...supposed inteligent folk who I respected..and still do on various forums were creaming themselves over this one performance...was it the egg and spoon lexus one year?
BOS was a lovely consistent one paced plodder without the gears EVER to win a GC
reality is obviously clouded by rose tinted spectacles in regard to this animal
talk about using an animal to knock another...the jealousy of BOS supporters about Best Mate has always amused and saddened me all at the same time :dork: