Ascot Saturday

He was coming back at him though which he has been known not to do in the past - he was bad at that over hurdles.
 
uncle goober said:
Certainly cant blame Elsworth. Someone recently posted "CALGARY BAY. Debating his best trip will be immaterial when he has to battle against anything willing to put up a fight. For all his cruising speed and fluid jumping ability, I expect him to be turned away by something that digs in."

Heading to two out things got tough, he showed reluctance from there on, his body language, including the shape he made over the last fence, was indicative of relcalcitrance, and although gaining in the last 100 yards it was limited and not particularly enthusiastic.

He looks fine and dandy when its a piece of piss but when its tough, its 'nu uh'

What matters most to this horse is opposition. A caving in of Free World alone would have resulted in an impressive win. But a gutsy Panjo Bere was enough to decide the result.

To be fair, I hope do hope that he doesn't drop dead.
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As there were four jumping the last almost together when Calgary Bay saw off Snap Tie and others as a hurdler , any suggestion that he is soft seems an ill- founded argument to me.

He does seem indeed to be much better going left handed from his record .
 
That Cheltenham race, Ardross, was run at a farcical crawl and was a sprint from a furlong and a half out. Calgary Bay therefore still had plenty to give freely without feeling he had to fight.

Your argument is based on the fact that you like the horse and the trainer, had declared your allegiance on here prior to yesterday, was longing for another impressive victory and so are pissed off that they got beat and looking for reasons to remain optimistic about the Arkle, such as blaming Elsworth.
 
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Ardross said:
Calgary Bay seemed to cope with the 2miles well enough - just much better going left handed and felt that Elsworth didn't quite see Panjo Bere coming.

Does seem to go particularly well for AP though - does JP have anything for the Arkle ?
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Kia Kaha maybe ?
 
uncle goober said:
That Cheltenham race, Ardross, was run at a farcical crawl and was a sprint from a furlong and a half out. Calgary Bay therefore still had plenty to give freely without feeling he had to fight.

Your argument is based on the fact that you like the horse and the trainer, had declared your allegiance on here prior to yesterday, was longing for another impressive victory and so are pissed off that they got beat and looking for reasons to remain optimistic about the Arkle, such as blaming Elsworth.
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Yawn- I expected Free World to beat him at the weights .
 
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Superflous 'yawn' there - got no counter argument there, then!!

As has been said before I'm a big fan of Calgary Bay, have been since long before he ran. However I don't wear blinkers that stop me from seeing that the horse doesn't always want to go through with the job. Have a look at his record, Ardross - all of his wins have been decisive victories. The horse tends to win when he is able to dominate to the extent that everything drops right for him and as such records impressive looking performances when winning thus. Have a look at the amount of 2nd places in his form, particularly after battles. Much as I would like it not to be the case, Calgary Bay does have a habit of folding when it is served up to him. If you had seen his bumper runs and his debut over hurdles you would be able to see this quite clearly; he was bitterly disappointing early doors, shirking the issue in races he really should have won.
 
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I think it's only fair to add that yesterday I didn't think he looked as bad as he has done when it comes to not rallying since I felt that he did try to come back, albeit slowly.

I've lost bundles on this horse, mainly in his bumpers and his debut over hurdles so much as it pains me, I have to admit that he does look a tad reluctant on occasion.
 
Wonder if the CB fans feel he's more Racing Demon than Best Mate?

He's likely running at Cheltenham in a race that won't suit him - he's a 3m+ horse apparently, has been beaten 2 out of 3 starts over fences. Can see him running well in the Arkle but wouldn't have him down as a winner at this stage - think there will be at least 2 or 3 genuine 2 milers who will do him for speed.
 
Shadow Leader said:
Superflous 'yawn' there - got no counter argument there, then!!

As has been said before I'm a big fan of Calgary Bay, have been since long before he ran. However I don't wear blinkers that stop me from seeing that the horse doesn't always want to go through with the job. Have a look at his record, Ardross - all of his wins have been decisive victories. The horse tends to win when he is able to dominate to the extent that everything drops right for him and as such records impressive looking performances when winning thus. Have a look at the amount of 2nd places in his form, particularly after battles. Much as I would like it not to be the case, Calgary Bay does have a habit of folding when it is served up to him. If you had seen his bumper runs and his debut over hurdles you would be able to see this quite clearly; he was bitterly disappointing early doors, shirking the issue in races he really should have won.
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The yawn is simply because Goober has shown his own prejudices and I don't see any point in indulging them . I have already set out why I don't think CB is ungenuine .
 
I am sorry that you have a complex Ardross. If you don't like your arguments being debated then I suggest you refrain from posting them on a forum.

Irish Stamp, for the sake of Calgary Bay I hope he is trained with more panache than that received by Racing Demon.
 
Ardross, not everybody likes and dislikes the same horses. I can't really see the point in discussing a horse, then refusing to discuss that same horse because someone doesn't hold the exact same views about it as you do - this is after all a racing forum.

Crikey, even myself and Goober often have discussions about Calgary Bay without letting his prejudices get in the way. :D
 
uncle goober said:
I am sorry that you have a complex Ardross. If you don't like your arguments being debated then I suggest you refrain from posting them on a forum.

Irish Stamp, for the sake of Calgary Bay I hope he is trained with more panache than that received by Racing Demon.
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I have never found " debating" with you very productive as you don't ever listen to anybody else's point of view and how you debate is always coloured by whether you hold a personal animus to an individual . As is shown by your posts directed at me on this thread.

I decline to debate with abusive people - your referring to that as a " complex " simply makes my point.
 
Shadow Leader said:
Ardross, not everybody likes and dislikes the same horses. I can't really see the point in discussing a horse, then refusing to discuss that same horse because someone doesn't hold the exact same views about it as you do - this is after all a racing forum.

Crikey, even myself and Goober often have discussions about Calgary Bay without letting his prejudices get in the way. :D
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Shadow Leader I am more than happy to discuss the horse , just not with goober:)
 
Master Minded is an odd beastie - most great horses have a presence about them, they are either imposing or charismatic or summat. You wouldn't give MM a second glance in the PR unless you knew his record! He has no personality to my eyes. Sure can jump though - there were huge gasps and oohs and ahs from the crowd as he went over some of those

Calgary Bay is indeed becoming frustrating, I hope he does go better left handed!
His lass looked bitterly disappointed on Saturday, much more so than the owners LOL
 
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Ardross said:
I have never found " debating" with you very productive as you don't ever listen to anybody else's point of view and how you debate is always coloured by whether you hold a personal animus to an individual . As is shown by your posts directed at me on this thread.

I decline to debate with abusive people - your referring to that as a " complex " simply makes my point.
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I did listen to your point of view, regarding Calgary Bay's hurdle win at Cheltenham and provided my own evidence to counter your point.

Your analysis of how I debate is wide of the mark. That I dont like you has no correlation with my negative views of Calgary Bay. If you were a regular poster on here then you would see that I had expressed views on the horse prior to your recent visit. I am fair-minded enough to often agree with people that I don't like and disagree with people that I do like. It is not as if I interject with scorn at your every offering.

I cannot help your lack of productivity in debates, try being right more often. There is no record of me ever being abusive to anyone on this forum. That you feel abused says nothing about me, but says plenty all the same. Have another yawn and go back to swimming with the little fishes where your pseudo-authoritative postings can go undebated.
 
Strange isn't it - it's like girls or chaps, and even dogs! - some of 'em grab you and some don't.

NH Horses which have really impressed me hugely on first view in the flesh include Inglis Drever, Denman, Mad Max and Punchestowns (recent examples). I've also loved The Big Ors and Alph - and I backed 3 of those fto on Parade Ring viewing and won quite a bit each time. I do tend to like big imposing horses

MM just doesn't do it for me at all, he was by no means a standout for me on Saturday in the PR - but I'd be the first to say both Colin and Trudij have much more experience than I do of 'picking a horse' LOL.
 
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Headstrong said:
Strange isn't it - it's like girls or chaps, and even dogs! - some of 'em grab you and some don't.

NH Horses which have really impressed me hugely on first view in the flesh include Inglis Drever, Denman, Mad Max and Punchestowns (recent examples). I've also loved The Big Ors and Alph - and I backed 3 of those fto on Parade Ring viewing and won quite a bit each time. I do tend to like big imposing horses

MM just doesn't do it for me at all, he was by no means a standout for me on Saturday in the PR - but I'd be the first to say both Colin and Trudij have much more experience than I do of 'picking a horse' LOL.
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Strange that you find Inglis Drever impressive in the parade ring, although the others you cite are all big, imposing sorts; Drever is distinctly ordinary looking to my eye, whereas I (and two non racing friends) was blown away by Master Minded in the paddock on Saturday. He definitely has presence, and size too. But as you say, it's different strokes for different folks..

For the record, Goober is right (much as it pains me) about Calgary Bay, and Ardross is wrong to suggest any political slant to his viewpoint. On the other hand, Ardross should continue to swim with the sharks here rather than take UG's last piece of advice. Thick skin is essential here, but the debate should be robust, for the benefit of us all.
 
uncle goober said:
I did listen to your point of view, regarding Calgary Bay's hurdle win at Cheltenham and provided my own evidence to counter your point.

Your analysis of how I debate is wide of the mark. That I dont like you has no correlation with my negative views of Calgary Bay. If you were a regular poster on here then you would see that I had expressed views on the horse prior to your recent visit. I am fair-minded enough to often agree with people that I don't like and disagree with people that I do like. It is not as if I interject with scorn at your every offering.

I cannot help your lack of productivity in debates, try being right more often. There is no record of me ever being abusive to anyone on this forum. That you feel abused says nothing about me, but says plenty all the same. Have another yawn and go back to swimming with the little fishes where your pseudo-authoritative postings can go undebated.
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Ardross,
I don't think Goober was being abusive. I think his manner was frustrating for you (telling you why you think what you think) but certainly not abusive.

Goober,
If Ardross doesn't want to discuss it with you, accept it and move on.

That last paragraph is unhelpful at best.


A lot of people here are tiring of people bringing past grudges, grudges from other forums, or issues from people they know or have met in 'real life'.
 
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