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A 9-day(!) whip ban for BJG. If a jockey has won a race by flouting the rules to that extent (and this looks like a serious case of cheating), shouldn't the horse be disqualified?
 
michael_o said:
A 9-day(!) whip ban for BJG. If a jockey has won a race by flouting the rules to that extent (and this looks like a serious case of cheating), shouldn't the horse be disqualified?
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Disagree with you completely-by your logic anyone who gets a whip ban is guilty of cheating as opposed to breaking the rules.Today we saw a superb display from Geraghty who is currently the best jockey riding in Britain or Ireland.
 
This was no ordinary whip ban. I cannot recall a whip-ban of anything approaching this length, certainly not this season. He gained an unfair advantage over his rivals who all rode within the rules. That is how cheating is defined, it was flagrant and by god it wasn't pretty.
 
I have to confess I didn't see it but I agree with Michael. If the whip rules are broken the horse should be disqualified. But it would have to be applied consistently.

I'm not necessarily being magnanimous. I've been on the runner-up in such situations probably more often than on the winner so I imagine these things would even themselves out over a season.
 
I wouldn't have backed ha with worst enemy,s money. Too often jumpers too poorly.

Will always stick with that principle that too many excuses are made for bad jumpers too often

Great ride by the supreme jockey.

And great day there today. Superb atmosphere and fine card
 
Probably the worst case of whip abuse since the new rules were introduced. Nine days -- jesus that is serious. And people are coming on here and calling it a great ride. Bollocks to that. Mr McCoy should be feeling a trifle aggrieved tonight.
 
michael_o said:
Probably the worst case of whip abuse since the new rules were introduced. Nine days -- jesus that is serious. And people are coming on here and calling it a great ride. Bollocks to that. Mr McCoy should be feeling a trifle aggrieved tonight.
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I will say it again -great ride from the best jockey currently riding.To call it cheating is outrageous -you might as well call being offside in football cheating.
 
I was musing earlier this evening about Burton Port.

Given that "aggressive" (McCoy's word - more than once) ride at Newbury, off which the horse didn't finish, then today's less aggressive but prominent (presumably to keep him interested) ride, again off which he didn't finish, I wonder if they have something (like the Hennessy) in mind for him next season. I wonder if they'll work on getting him to finish his races as he was never really out of a hack canter until going to the last today. I can't help thinking there's so much more in the tank and they'll be working on ways to release it.
 
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LUKE said:
I will say it again -great ride from the best jockey currently riding.To call it cheating is outrageous -you might as well call being offside in football cheating.
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Being offside in football, bowling a no-ball, failing to release in a ruck, etc, that's breaking the rules but not cheating. Geraghty took a conscious decision to hit that horse as often as it took to get his head in front on the line, regardless of the whip rules. Now that, my friend, is cheating. And why did he do it? Because it was the last day of the season and any ban which kicks in in 2 weeks time, however onerous, will have little consequence for him.

It was cynical, it was flagrant, and you can be absolutely certain he wouldn't have given a horse a ride like that 2 weeks before a major Festival.
 
Desert Orchid said:
I was musing earlier this evening about Burton Port.

Given that "aggressive" (McCoy's word - more than once) ride at Newbury, off which the horse didn't finish, then today's less aggressive but prominent (presumably to keep him interested) ride, again off which he didn't finish, I wonder if they have something (like the Hennessy) in mind for him next season. I wonder if they'll work on getting him to finish his races as he was never really out of a hack canter until going to the last today. I can't help thinking there's so much more in the tank and they'll be working on ways to release it.
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I hope they do, but don't forget this is a horse who's legs are made of glass....



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
michael_o said:
Being offside in football, bowling a no-ball, failing to release in a ruck, etc, that's breaking the rules but not cheating. Geraghty took a conscious decision to hit that horse as often as it took to get his head in front on the line, regardless of the whip rules. Now that, my friend, is cheating. And why did he do it? Because it was the last day of the season and any ban which kicks in in 2 weeks time, however onerous, will have little consequence for him.

It was cynical, it was flagrant, and you can be absolutely certain he wouldn't have given a horse a ride like that 2 weeks before a major Festival.
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Since all use of the whip is conscious you would describe anyone who gets a whip ban as a cheat.
 
Hamm said:
You are very wrong indeed here.
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Missed the Irish National because of a whip ban.Going back 15 years Dunwoody thought he was very hard on Deanos Beano-can be very hard on horses in my opinion-there was one ride he gave at Christmas that I thought was absolutely scandalous.
 
LUKE said:
Since all use of the whip is conscious you would describe anyone who gets a whip ban as a cheat.
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No, because it's easy to understand how a jockey can exceed the limit by a few strokes in the heat of the moment. They're competitive young men and women who want to win and I don't consider that to be deliberate cheating. That sort of offence would result in a 2-4 day ban.

To get a 9-day ban (unprecedented this season as far as I'm aware) suggests to me that Geraghty must have hit that horse at least twice as often as he was allowed to. After jumping the last, he just seemed to be flogging the horse incessantly all the way up the run-in. He knew exactly what he was doing and that he would get a long ban. But he won a valuable race on the last day of the season, so I expect he's happy.

Sorry Barry, you've gone down a notch in my estimation.
 
So Michael are you saying that if he'd have only just gone over the threshold it would have been ok?
 
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michael_o said:
No, because it's easy to understand how a jockey can exceed the limit by a few strokes in the heat of the moment. They're competitive young men and women who want to win and I don't consider that to be deliberate cheating. That sort of offence would result in a 2-4 day ban.

To get a 9-day ban (unprecedented this season as far as I'm aware) suggests to me that Geraghty must have hit that horse at least twice as often as he was allowed to. After jumping the last, he just seemed to be flogging the horse incessantly all the way up the run-in. He knew exactly what he was doing and that he would get a long ban. But he won a valuable race on the last day of the season, so I expect he's happy.

Sorry Barry, you've gone down a notch in my estimation.
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Havn't seen todays race but that sounds very similar to Frankie on Rewilding in the Prince of Wales.
Flogging the jeer off him all the way up the straight but he got up close home so I doubt he lost any sleep over what I think was quite a hefty ban.
 
michael_o said:
No, because it's easy to understand how a jockey can exceed the limit by a few strokes in the heat of the moment. They're competitive young men and women who want to win and I don't consider that to be deliberate cheating. That sort of offence would result in a 2-4 day ban.

To get a 9-day ban (unprecedented this season as far as I'm aware) suggests to me that Geraghty must have hit that horse at least twice as often as he was allowed to. After jumping the last, he just seemed to be flogging the horse incessantly all the way up the run-in. He knew exactly what he was doing and that he would get a long ban. But he won a valuable race on the last day of the season, so I expect he's happy.

Sorry Barry, you've gone down a notch in my estimation.
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So a four day ban is merely being competetive but 9 days is deliberate cheating.
 
tiggers1972 said:
So Michael are you saying that if he'd have only just gone over the threshold it would have been ok?
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Yes, he'd have got a 2-day ban, which is fair enough. But he wouldn't have won. He might have been 3rd.

Even the most experienced jocks can miscalculate in the heat of the moment. But BJG's calculated ride today was an order of magnitude different from any of that. Again I have to say, and it should be obvious to everyone on here, he cheated to win the race.

I just hope the BHA will now have a look at this. There's a big difference between the whip bans incurred in the heat of the moment which attract a 2-4 day ban, and for which the winner should not be disqualified, and Geraghty's cynical, deliberate performance today which should definitely result in a disqualification.

Nine days, doesn't that speak for itself??
 
FWIW I believe that any horse who's jockey gets a whip ban should be disqualified. Its a much bigger deterrent than a ban. I agree with Michael O , BG was way over the top today, and cant understand how it can be viewed as a good ride. That said probably the best jockey this season.
 
In the 2yo race at Doncaster tonight Richard Hughes eased the even money favourite prematurely and got done for 3rd place on the line-costing some Betfair punters a tidy sum.As far as I am aware there was no ban and nobody calling him a cheat.
 
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