Breeding Question.

an capall

an capall

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Help needed from experts. You know who you are.

When St Marks Basilica goes to stud - his dam is by Galileo - is he to close in perdigree to be mated with Galieo mares?

Thanks
 
No expert but if you look at Galileo's page on the RP and check his best fillies, the likes of Misty for Me and Together have had between them 12 or so foals and none of them are by Galileo sires.
 
There was a question mark over a lot of the French raiders post WW2 in England; they had huge success but allegations of doping were ripe at the time.
These horses were usually sweaty, wired and spirited in and out before too many questions could be asked.
Boussac banned cattle off his stud farms after some horse was gored by a horned animal and the farms became horse sick as a result.
20 French Derby winners bred by him, none by me so I cannot justifiably over criticise him or his breeding practices !
A thought ; imagine how sweaty a 2x2 or 3x2 bred Galileo will look in the parade ring.
 
edgt said:
There was a question mark over a lot of the French raiders post WW2 in England; they had huge success but allegations of doping were ripe at the time.
These horses were usually sweaty, wired and spirited in and out before too many questions could be asked.
Click to expand...

I think doping at that time is highly likely.

My local bookie (now retired) used to regale me with stories of his cycling days - he competed in the Tours - in the '60s. He said all the continentals, especially the French, were doped and that it was common knowledge but no-one could ever prove it.

And - something I've repeated on here a number of times - in an episode of Blue Peter, Fatima Whitbread was extolling the virtues of anabolic steroids and how they were helping her get the top of the rankings. (This was before they were banned.) I reckon it's reasonable to assume that many athletes at that time were being 'helped'.
 
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I don't know if it's necessary to reach for dark theories to explain the French successes in England in the immediate post-war years.

There was a general dip in levels of British sporting prowess at the time. This was the era when Vincent O'Brien dominated Cheltenham and Aintree with Cottage Rake, Hatton's Grace, Carey's Cottage et al. The Irish rugby team were able to win their first ever triple crown in 1947 and another in 1948. The ROI soccer team did the unthinkable and beat England 2-0 in 1949 at Goodison Park.

There was a general shortage of nutrition in Britain, and rationing continued for years after the war was over. The best present anyone could bring from Ireland or elsewhere was food, even simple stuff like rashers and eggs, and food parcels were frequently sent across to expat families. I doubt British athletes of the time, whether human or equine, were as well fed in their formative years as their counterparts in neighbouring countries had been.
 
I’ve been following a Facebook page about the wild mustangs in America that are sadly being rounded up by helicopter and family groups are being split up. I don’t know what their actual fate is (find it very upsetting). But one horse, a very famous mustang called Picasso had a foal with one of his mares that died soon after birth. It was pure white and seemed to have a genetic problem. He never mated with that mare again. So, in the wild, would mares and stallions instinctively know which horses they should breed with? The first thing I thought when I read about it was the breeding of thoroughbreds. And we all know about those unplanned foals that turned out to be champion racehorses.
 
One fact is that although the Boussac empire collapsed that a few generations on those families produced the likes of Darshaan, Estimate, Dalakhani and Almanzor, amongst others.
 
Grey said:
I don't know if it's necessary to reach for dark theories to explain the French successes in England in the immediate post-war years.

There was a general dip in levels of British sporting prowess at the time. This was the era when Vincent O'Brien dominated Cheltenham and Aintree with Cottage Rake, Hatton's Grace, Carey's Cottage et al. The Irish rugby team were able to win their first ever triple crown in 1947 and another in 1948. The ROI soccer team did the unthinkable and beat England 2-0 in 1949 at Goodison Park.

There was a general shortage of nutrition in Britain, and rationing continued for years after the war was over. The best present anyone could bring from Ireland or elsewhere was food, even simple stuff like rashers and eggs, and food parcels were frequently sent across to expat families. I doubt British athletes of the time, whether human or equine, were as well fed in their formative years as their counterparts in neighbouring countries had been.
Click to expand...

True and a lot of sires were lost to us.
 
St Mark's Basilica's fee for 2022 set at 65000 Euro.
This is mainly thanks to Ryan Moore taking Tarnawa out to the carpark in Irish Champion Stakes.
Had he not done so and been defeated the fee would be 35000, taking 30,000,000 off the horse's notional value.
Would Ryan have been worried about a 7 day suspension, even a 7 week one ?
The price of success vs the cost of failure ; Australia's Irish Champion defeat cost that much.
No wonder Joseph got the chop shortly after.
 
edgt said:
St Mark's Basilica's fee for 2022 set at 65000 Euro.
This is mainly thanks to Ryan Moore taking Tarnawa out to the carpark in Irish Champion Stakes.
Had he not done so and been defeated the fee would be 35000, taking 30,000,000 off the horse's notional value.
Would Ryan have been worried about a 7 day suspension, even a 7 week one ?
The price of success vs the cost of failure ; Australia's Irish Champion defeat cost that much.
No wonder Joseph got the chop shortly after.
Click to expand...

What's Walk In The Park coming in at Ed?
 
edgt said:
St Mark's Basilica's fee for 2022 set at 65000 Euro.
This is mainly thanks to Ryan Moore taking Tarnawa out to the carpark in Irish Champion Stakes.
Had he not done so and been defeated the fee would be 35000, taking 30,000,000 off the horse's notional value.
Would Ryan have been worried about a 7 day suspension, even a 7 week one ?
The price of success vs the cost of failure ;
Click to expand...

Now, if I had written that...

:blink::blink:
 
edgt said:
St Mark's Basilica's fee for 2022 set at 65000 Euro.
This is mainly thanks to Ryan Moore taking Tarnawa out to the carpark in Irish Champion Stakes.
Had he not done so and been defeated the fee would be 35000, taking 30,000,000 off the horse's notional value.
Would Ryan have been worried about a 7 day suspension, even a 7 week one ?
The price of success vs the cost of failure ; Australia's Irish Champion defeat cost that much.
No wonder Joseph got the chop shortly after.
Click to expand...

To digress slightly, Camelot fetches €75,000. I wondered what it would have been if he had managed to overhaul Encke and undoubtedly been retired to stud there and then as an undefeated triple crown winner.
 
wilsonl said:
To digress slightly, Camelot fetches €75,000. I wondered what it would have been if he had managed to overhaul Encke and undoubtedly been retired to stud there and then as an undefeated triple crown winner.
Click to expand...

Mght well have been, had Joseph not misjudged the pace, as he had in the Guineas, too.
 
wilsonl said:
To digress slightly, Camelot fetches €75,000. I wondered what it would have been if he had managed to overhaul Encke and undoubtedly been retired to stud there and then as an undefeated triple crown winner.
Click to expand...

Wasn't there some kind of doping controversy around Encke or his trainer?

Has Camelot been any good as a sire?
 
Was talking to a friend about this thread who's into pedigrees and he sent this across:
Came across an interesting pedigree yesterday. I know Jim Bolger likes to try some close inbreeding in his matings, especially to Galileo and the Urban Sea family, but the pedigree of Nectarine that won the 2:40 at Leopardstown yesterday is an extreme case. Nectarine is by Parish Hall - Labhandar; now both Parish Hall and Labhandar are by sons of Galileo out of daughters of Montjeu, so Nectarine has Galileo 3x3 and Montjeu 3x3, and since both Galileo and Monjeu are by Sadler's Wells, Nectarine has four lines of Sadler's Wells in her fourth generation.
 
An old pedigree buff was asked the age old question about the difference between in breeding and line breeding.
When it works we call it line breeding; when it doesn't work that is inbreeding.
Dam sire of Teofilo is Danehill who has two strains to Natalma, dam of Northern Dancer to add to the mix.
 
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