Britain ruled by banks? (Discuss)

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Colin Phillips

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"Britain is ruled by the banks, for the banks
Is David Cameron's kid-glove treatment of the City remotely justified, when it neither pays its way nor lends effectively?"

Full story at : http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/dec/12/britain-ruled-by-banks

The last sentence:

"Meanwhile, the politicians declare that the national interest of Britain can be defined by what suits one square mile of it."

sums up my thoughts after last week.
 
If it's in the Guardian, it'll be the usual left wing tosh, like the research into the riots they carried out with the equally lamentable LSE

Whilst I'm at it, the BBC's coverage of the talks has been one sided and puerile.
 
Very Very Ordinary said:
If it's in the Guardian, it'll be the usual left wing tosh, like the research into the riots they carried out with the equally lamentable LSE

Whilst I'm at it, the BBC's coverage of the talks has been one sided and puerile.
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Is that the best you can do? To proudly say you refuse to listen?
 
Exactly Grey. Best not to leave prejudices get in the way of forming an opinion based on the facts.

For me, what Cameron did last week will define him, and unfortunately Britain, for the next decade or more. A weak man, who more than bowing to the City, bowed to the fanatics in his party who effectively have him on a puppet string. I think with the Coalition stifling all possible growth, and a recession forecast for next year, I am glad I am trying to move abroad with my job.
 
According to the propaganda, Cameron's decision will leave Britain "isolated" in Europe. But what does this actually mean?

That European countries will stop trading with us? Bollocks, surely?

That we will have a diminished say in the direction of the EU? Did we ever have one?

Something else entirely?

I would love it Keegan-style if someone could actually articulate the practical effects of Cameron's decision, on someone who lives and works in the UK.

To quote a phrase; will this affect the price of a beer?
 
Hamm said:
Exactly Grey. Best not to leave prejudices get in the way of forming an opinion based on the facts.

For me, what Cameron did last week will define him, and unfortunately Britain, for the next decade or more. A weak man, who more than bowing to the City, bowed to the fanatics in his party who effectively have him on a puppet string. I think with the Coalition stifling all possible growth, and a recession forecast for next year, I am glad I am trying to move abroad with my job.
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So no prejudices there, then
 
Grey said:
Is that the best you can do? To proudly say you refuse to listen?
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Believe me, I've read Guardian online plenty. With the odd laudable exception, like Simon Jenkins, it is very, very socialist and getting more so. Fair enough, no one forces you to read it; the BBC is more of a concern - I used to think it was a marvellous institution and that allegations of bias were laughable; these days it is always coming at issues with a preconceived agenda. That's pretty unarguable.
 
Grasshopper said:
According to the propaganda, Cameron's decision will leave Britain "isolated" in Europe. But what does this actually mean?

That European countries will stop trading with us? Bollocks, surely?

That we will have a diminished say in the direction of the EU? Did we ever have one?

Something else entirely?

I would love it Keegan-style if someone could actually articulate the practical effects of Cameron's decision, on someone who lives and works in the UK.

To quote a phrase; will this affect the price of a beer?
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My thoughts exactly
 
That we will have a diminished say in the direction of the EU? Did we ever have one?
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The suggestion that the UK has no influence in the EU is a myth. In fact, I would say the UK has had more influence than any other Member State on the EU.

It was the UK who pushed most for enlargement, for the development of the single market and the free movement of capital.

The UK has made sure the Commission has a weak president, it has opposed increased powers for the Parliament, has slowed down the evolution towards closer union between Member States. No end of proposals have been dropped or never even thought of because of the futility of trying to get the British to agree to them.

The British nominee, Baroness Ashton, is in charge of the EU External Affairs Service , but the UK has also blocked over 90 EU foreign policy initiatives in recent years.

The irony is the EU is then derided in Britain for being weak, divided and undemocratic.
 
All very good, Arthur, but as I've said, the posturing and he-says/she-says waffle is of no consequence to me. I prefer to deal in practicalities.

So I ask again, what are the practical implications of this decision for me as a UK-based tax-payer? That is all I'm interested in.
 
Interesting post by Grey.
I suspect he knows what he's talking about.

I was a little surprised that Sarkozy included contentious anti-London-Square-Mile rules in the 'new' treaty (surely you need less detail & more consideration for a new treaty at the early stage!)

So, it looked as tho' Cameron was ambushed ... but really, his advisors would have figured that one & he vetoed accordingly. A little too deep for me. Why didn't Cameron call Clegg before vetoing ? ... because he didn't want to! hah hah.

Much talk, little effectveness coming from Franco-German team. As for the rest of them - too scared of F&G camp.

Won't fly, I don't think.
 
Grasshopper said:
All very good, Arthur, but as I've said, the posturing and he-says/she-says waffle is of no consequence to me. I prefer to deal in practicalities.

So I ask again, what are the practical implications of this decision for me as a UK-based tax-payer? That is all I'm interested in.
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The main practical consequence is that the remaining 26 are free to get on with managing the eurozone without British interference. The UK won't be able to prevent anti-speculation measures being introduced, even if the City doesn't like them, as it surely won't.

Mind you it's in the British interest that the eurozone gets its act together, so it mightn't be such bad news after all if there is now a greater chance of that happening.

In a less tangible way, however, the perception that, even in the midst of a serious crisis, the UK government is not ashamed to say it is only interested in the EU for what it can get out of it is likely to go against it in future negotiations on other matters.
 
Grey said:
In a less tangible way, however, the perception that, even in the midst of a serious crisis, the UK government is not ashamed to say it is only interested in the EU for what it can get out of it is likely to go against it in future negotiations on other matters.
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Which is the combination of a country that deludes itself into thinking it is still a power on the world stage and the island mentality.
 
Ah, so the EU is founded on pure altruism, with no country wondering what's in it for them? Hamm, your view is so depressingly toxic, the sooner you push off and infect other shores with that mindset, the better - although keep it up and you'll be just another despised whinging Pom. Of course the UK is still a power on the world stage - enough countries want to invest in it, buy up vast tracts of it, enough people - tens of thousands, in fact - want to come and live in it (if not actually work in it), and 2010 saw its lowest number of emigration for a decade. And let's not forget the millions upon millions we're still donating to Commonwealth and other countries - yes, it does take some power to do that, when half the world's an enfeebled basket case, socially, politically, agriculturally and/or financially speaking.
 
krizon said:
Ah, so the EU is founded on pure altruism, with no country wondering what's in it for them? Hamm, your view is so depressingly toxic, the sooner you push off and infect other shores with that mindset, the better - although keep it up and you'll be just another despised whinging Pom. Of course the UK is still a power on the world stage - enough countries want to invest in it, buy up vast tracts of it, enough people - tens of thousands, in fact - want to come and live in it (if not actually work in it), and 2010 saw its lowest number of emigration for a decade. And let's not forget the millions upon millions we're still donating to Commonwealth and other countries - yes, it does take some power to do that, when half the world's an enfeebled basket case, socially, politically, agriculturally and/or financially speaking.
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Ehhh, I'm not British.

The simple fact is, and I am saying this as someone who has enjoyed living in London and has a lot of British (no Scottish, of course :D) friends, that the British abroad are renowned for their island mentality and pushing their 'culture' upon the local communities. Why that is relevant is that often some British have trouble in seeing things from a contintental perspective, seeing things beyond their own Island, and this is just repeating itself on a political level.

GH, not every effect will be direct. But, the prosperity of the British economy will obviously affect you, even up in the Highlands. And, if the British aren't even at the negotiating table listening, let alone influencing, this can only mean the needs of the other 26 countries are served ahead of the British needs.

Cameron got a bloody nose when the right wing of his party ignored his 3 line whip a few months back. It is well known he is not liked by this ever growing faction, and to have any hope of succeeding as a Tory leader, he needed to appease them, and that is what he did. Can you imagine the revolt from his own party if he brought amendments to the Lisbon Treaty to Parliament?

It says it all that the 2 papers who had triumphant front pages on Friday were the Mail and the Sun. I can imagine their readers were very happy with the 'Bulldog spirit'.
 
The city is 10% of GDP. it is the envy of many countries and you do have to wonder if their motivations with "regulations" are exactly. 37% of the worlds financial transactions go through the UK, which is extraordinary by anyone standards

it that sphere we are definately a world force. And krizon is right of course. G7 = world force.

Whether Camerons stance is right or wrong can only be determined by the detail of what is or isnt being proposed. Its a nightmare to understand of course

what is certain is that we cannot allow the competitive edge to diminish in any way at all. Ok, its going to be near impossible for any other centre to match the cities expertise anytime soon (unlike China reverse enginerring German products say)

Ultimately i suspect that Grass is right though about trade and VVO is certainly correct about some writers in Guardian thats for sure.
 
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he UK government is not ashamed to say it is only interested in the EU for what it can get out of it is
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Well at least we say it. I think compared with the PIGS and back further with the French and the CAP, Uk has nothing to be ashamed of at all
 
Seamus Milne. Strong Iran supporter, AQ sympathiser, apologist for the old soviet union etc etc

Nasty piece of work admittedly.

Madeline bunting is pretty good for a weird read about social issues (and fawning over extremist imans)

The days of Hugo young and Peter jenkins seem far away when read these writers (although jonathon Freedland is good)
 
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Hamm said:
Ehhh, I'm not British.
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To be honest, I didn't actually have you down as "Human". :lol:

The simple fact is, and I am saying this as someone who has enjoyed living in London and has a lot of British (no Scottish, of course :D) friends, that the British abroad are renowned for their island mentality and pushing their 'culture' upon the local communities. Why that is relevant is that often some British have trouble in seeing things from a contintental perspective, seeing things beyond their own Island, and this is just repeating itself on a political level.
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I think this is hackneyed nonsense myself.

GH, not every effect will be direct. But, the prosperity of the British economy will obviously affect you, even up in the Highlands. And, if the British aren't even at the negotiating table listening, let alone influencing, this can only mean the needs of the other 26 countries are served ahead of the British needs.
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What "negotiating table" is this? What is there to negotiate? Which of the 26 countries in the Union is not out to look after their own best interests.

Half the 26 are happy to have their fiscal policy determined by Germany (via the ECB), because they want the security and prospects that go with the model. And the other half have to because they are skint.

One half gives fiscal sovereignty away willingly and the other half under duress. All Cameron has done is exercise his right not to have the UK pay for the excess of countries aligned to a currency which the UK has had no part of. I don't particularly agree with what he has done, as I'd rather have found a way, but if there was no other way, then I think it's perfectly fair of him to play his veto.

Cameron got a bloody nose when the right wing of his party ignored his 3 line whip a few months back. It is well known he is not liked by this ever growing faction, and to have any hope of succeeding as a Tory leader, he needed to appease them, and that is what he did. Can you imagine the revolt from his own party if he brought amendments to the Lisbon Treaty to Parliament?
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Ever-growing? Says who? You?

It says it all that the 2 papers who had triumphant front pages on Friday were the Mail and the Sun. I can imagine their readers were very happy with the 'Bulldog spirit'.
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All it says is that the two papers in question print bollocks. But that's hardly news. It doesn't say anything more.

I ask again, what are the practical effects? This esoteric bollocks I can figure out for myself, thanks.
 
Gareth - it's not a point of view - it's a fact, whether you care for it or not! :D

Hamm, you'll be just another despised whinging foreigner, then.
 
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