Bryony Frost

I am sure Bryony Frost is correct that there are people in racing who are jealous of the success she has had and the attention she receives, including some colleagues who are still riding. By making a general complaint, however, and not naming names, of lot of blameless colleagues will feel tarred with the same brush. She would probably be better off doing more of her talking on the track, and letting the fact she is used by many of the best trainers around speak for itself.
 
I agree Art

There is a time for talking and a time for walking

There are plenty of jockeys out there who haven't got the breaks she has (does not take away from her talents)

In nearly every way possible, the sport has been fairer to her than others
 
I didn't read the 'complaint' as a generalisation. It's clear she's talking about a small-minded minority.

Anyone with a clear conscience on the matter won't be bothered by her words.

Given how successful she is and how media-friendly she is, it's important that she can highlight that racing has gender issues because people are going to listen to her.
 
I read the article and felt “good on her” Although I was involved first in racing thirty years ago, let me tell you even now as a female it is very, very hard to be taken seriously. You have no idea of the blatant sexism that goes on. I (and many others) suffered enormously as a result. I became a very tough, hard individual as a result. Do any of you have any idea what it’s like to be referred to as a “split a*se?”

Bryony is probably the very best thing that has happened to racing in a long time and the fact that she feels that it’s necessary to speak out, probably means it is. She is 100% genuine in everything she does and it’s a load of rubbish to suggest she got a lucky break simply because her dad is a trainer and Nicholls gave her a job. She got it because she is hugely talented. I interviewed her several times during her point to Pointing career and she was as she is now. Utterly delightful. I used to watch her early rides a bit sceptically as I wondered if her dad was not running the horses on their merits. But he was just giving her safe rides to get round and give her confidence.

And boy can she ride. I have said earlier that she possesses something special. Horses run for her. I watched her on Yala Enki on Saturday and she’s beautiful to watch. So soft on a horse with her hands. And that is why horses respond to her. She is all about the horse rather than herself and long may she continue.
 
When you next watch a race look for the rider who is perfectly balanced, quiet and stock still with head barely wavering. Chances are it’ll be Bryony.

At the sharp end watch for a rider who conjours a finish out of their horse without giving it a hard time. Surprising how often Bryony and Hollie Doyle will feature.
 
Bryony Frost has worked exceptionally hard and been willing to learn from the best. Her ability and achievements are self-evident, not least to the top stables who are happy to use her.

When faced with prejudice there is an unfair dilemma for the victim. Is it better to call it out or to sit quiet and hope it will eventually melt away in the face of the facts? It is good to be reminded that one or two female riders breaking through does not mean that prejudice towards them has magically disappeared. On the other hand I wouldn't like to see her being hit with a backlash.

There's no right or wrong approach to take, everyone is different. Rachael Blackmore happens to be an honours graduate of the John Magnier School of PR (Whatever You Say Say Nothing) while Bryony is a real communicator.
 
Don't know how many would notice but clicking on the little button to the left of the Title of a thread on the main page takes you to the first new post since you last read the thread.Very useful.
 
I think a lot of jockies, current and ex, could be accused of benefitting from getting plum rides over others, thems the breaks and who wouldn't do it for their own kid. But I doubt Nicholls would have put her on Frodon in the King George if he didn't think she was up to it.

Personally I enjoyed seeing her win and anyone trying to take anything away from her on it is being a bit of a dick , including AP McCoy and the comment he made.
 
I didn't watch racing on Saturday. I hear Adam Wedge is on the naughty step for saying it 'is a man's game.'

Does anybody have context please?
 
If you are a very good jockey you’ll eventually get plumb rides. That’s why she’s getting them now.

It’s a bit of a fallacy that all you need to succeed is a good horse under you. Poor jockies cost their horses lengths in a race which makes it harder for them. Poor jockies don’t win as often as the ability of their horses merit. . Good jockies save their horses lengths which makes it easier for them. Good jockeys win more often than the ability of their horses merit.
 
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an capall said:
I didn't watch racing on Saturday. I hear Adam Wedge is on the naughty step for saying it 'is a man's game.'

Does anybody have context please?
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I'll try and get back to you tomorrow on that, AC. It did flash across my mind that maybe there was a wee dig when he said it so I'll look at the recording tomorrow for the overall context.

It might have been a totally innocent remark. Footballers say it all the time if there's been a lot of 'contact' during a match. You wouldn't know it was a man's game watching the Hoops tonight.
 
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barjon said:
If you are a very good jockey you’ll eventually get plumb rides. That’s why she’s getting them now.

It’s a bit of a fallacy that all you need to succeed is a good horse under you. Poor jockies cost their horses lengths in a race which makes it harder for them. Poor jockies don’t win as often as the ability of their horses merit. . Good jockies save their horses lengths which makes it easier for them. Good jockeys win more often than the ability of their horses merit.
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I disagree, Barjon, and reckon the role of the jockey is massively over-emphasised in racing.

Clearly, there are a very few exceptional ones (e.g. McCoy, Walsh), and some appalling ones (e.g. Mr D Maxwell, Victoria Pendleton), but these extremes aside, the rest are all much of a muchness, and are entirely dependent on the horse they are riding to make them look either good or bad. Very few of them actually make a difference, and even when they do, it’s very-much by exception, rather than the rule.
 
Grasshopper said:
I disagree, Barjon, and reckon the role of the jockey is massively over-emphasised in racing.

Clearly, there are a very few exceptional ones (e.g. McCoy, Walsh), and some appalling ones (e.g. Mr D Maxwell, Victoria Pendleton), but these extremes aside, the rest are all much of a muchness, and are entirely dependent on the horse they are riding to make them look either good or bad. Very few of them actually make a difference, and even when they do, it’s very-much by exception, rather than the rule.
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Well, I think we’ll have to agree to disagree, Grassy. :)
 
an capall said:
I didn't watch racing on Saturday. I hear Adam Wedge is on the naughty step for saying it 'is a man's game.'

Does anybody have context please?
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Yeah they interviewed him after the Welsh National win, he'd been buried a couple of times from falls earlier on in the day and they were asking him how he felt.
He just replied, " it's a mans game and you've just got to get on with it."
 
tiggers1972 said:
Yeah they interviewed him after the Welsh National win, he'd been buried a couple of times from falls earlier on in the day and they were asking him how he felt.
He just replied, " it's a mans game and you've just got to get on with it."
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Yes. He was using shorthand for saying that he needed to be brave and ride through the injuries. Had he added 'this is why women can't ride horses.' or 'this is why you need to be a man to do this job.' he should get the attention he has.

No doubt if he was asked he would have said that it shows the bravery of the women jockeys who put themselves in the same danger daily.
 
Grasshopper said:
I disagree, Barjon, and reckon the role of the jockey is massively over-emphasised in racing.

Clearly, there are a very few exceptional ones (e.g. McCoy, Walsh), and some appalling ones (e.g. Mr D Maxwell, Victoria Pendleton), but these extremes aside, the rest are all much of a muchness, and are entirely dependent on the horse they are riding to make them look either good or bad. Very few of them actually make a difference, and even when they do, it’s very-much by exception, rather than the rule.
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In an individual race, there is very few instances where the rider makes the difference. In most cases, the best horse will win and any of the top 50 jockeys could do a job. I do think that there is a cumulative effect that ends up with the best jockeys making the best decisions and ending up on the best horses. (And over time, those not good enough losing those rides.)

There are other factors other than race-riding that ends up with the best jockeys on the best horses. Bryan Cooper is one of those jockeys who would be capable of winning on most horses but lost two high profile retainers, Sam Twiston-Davies likewise. I would rate them marginally worse than the best and went through a long period where a series of marginal decisions ended up with them losing good roles.

Geraghty reports in his book that the year before retirement, JP called him in and reported that trainers were complaining about the rides he was giving and whether he was thinking about retiring. Even with the very best, its noticed.

I think Bryony is as good as most out there and not a negative on any horse. I don't think she stands out as one of the top five jockeys (for instance), but not sure there are many who claim her to be.
 
I largely agree with HW on this but I definitely check jockeys on anything I'm thinking of backing.

I always have to think twice about backing a horse if RJ is booked, for example. If I backed anything ridden by the likes of D Maxwell it would have me questioning my sanity.

I often find myself checking if the jockey could have ridden elsewhere for a trainer with whom (s)he has had a lot of success. I check for the jockey's record for the trainer. Sometimes just getting a riding fee is enough for some jockeys, it seems, and they'll ride pretty much anything for anybody even if they are a good jockey so their overall strike rate is low but occasionally you'll find they have a 50% or better rate for somebody and then that's worth taking into consideration.

I always hesitate about backing a claimer but it doesn't usually put me off. I think it's because one of my old man's mantras was 'a 7lb claimer is a 7lb penalty'. Maybe it was back in his day but modern claimers are so well trained in the basics and some are great value for their allowance.

Kudos to jinnyj at this point for highlighting some of our better claimers when they're breaking through from the ptp sphere.

Some jockeys are a definite positive for me. On the Flat, Dettori is a class apart. He will often have had the pick of several rides in a race so whichever he opts for could be significant. He also makes the fewest mistakes of any jockey around since Cauthen.

Over the jumps it's not so clear-cut. One rider who caught my attention earlier in the season is Adam Wedge after a couple of excellent wins in TV races. He wouldn't necessarily be a go-to jockey for me but I'm never put off if he's up.

I'm still not sure about Cobden. He's obviously doing well because of his job and gets to pick and choose the best rides for his stable and for outside yards (that often have past connections to Nicholls) so he's a positive booking in that sense but I'm not sure he's a great jockey.

Skelton, I've said before, is far from stylish but I like that he always tries to go round the inside and not give away ground needlessly. That's a plus for me. Going one yard too wide all the way round in one circuit costs over a length in ground conceded. Losing on such a ride by a head does mine in!

I also like jockeys who tend to ride more prominently. I always used to think twice about anything ridden by Paul Moloney who seemed to to ride 90% of the time in rear. Then, of course, I'd oppose him one day and he'd go and make all! I blame him for the Ruckers not winning at least one Grand National on their horses.

The best jockeys help you evaluate a race, though. If Ruby Walsh held one back you knew they were going too fast. If he rode prominently you knew he was dictating the pace either way.

I do reckon the vast majority are much of a muchness but that the muchness is at a pretty decent level.
 
Its not all about the actual race its self.There are others factors too, for instance when Noel Fehily stood in for the injured Matty Batchelor for a one off ride on Carruthers. He got off the horse after the race and suggested to the trainer he wears a tongue tie when running in the future. It was applied for his next race and he duly won the Hennessey. Matty had ridden him for 3 years and never asked to try it.
 
Desert Orchid said:
I for one would very much look forward to it!
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So do I - think he should have been entered before now but anyway - just going to be such a shame no spectators will be there to see it. Mass hysteria in lounges round the country. Maybe everyone could record themselves watching the race and post on line afterwards!!
 
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