Champions Day - soft ground again

A

Ardross

Senior Jockey
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Aug 8, 2007
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Looks like sure to be soft ground on Saturday . The warnings about Ascot in late October beginning to come home to roost ?

We are sure to lose many of the top names if it comes to pass. No Declaration of War , possibly no Toronado and Soft Falling Rain , no Sky Lantern or The Fugue etc .
 
Given the likely absence of many of his rivals, the current 6-4 about CdA looks more than fair.

Could be odds on by the off.
 
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Looks like sure to be soft ground on Saturday . The warnings about Ascot in late October beginning to come home to roost ?

Its going to be wet and windy with no frankel

the accountants on Monday may not be very pleased with the days takings
 
Ardross said:
Looks like sure to be soft ground on Saturday . The warnings about Ascot in late October beginning to come home to roost ?

We are sure to lose many of the top names if it comes to pass. No Declaration of War , possibly no Toronado and Soft Falling Rain , no Sky Lantern or The Fugue etc .
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I don't agree with the current slot but this is a little unfair. It's previous slot was at Newmarket on the Cesarewitch card which has seen Good to Soft ground for the last two years and was only a week earlier? Difference in precipitation over those seven days will be negligible (although Newmarket will always get less rain than Ascot due to position).

I much prefer to see flat racing staged on quick ground but soft ground can also provide fantastic racing as the previous weekend in Paris showed with two world class winners.
 
As of today, the straight course is good to soft, with the soft on the round course. One would hope that the field for the QEII might hold up a bit if this remains the case.
 
Ardross said:
Looks like sure to be soft ground on Saturday . The warnings about Ascot in late October beginning to come home to roost ?

We are sure to lose many of the top names if it comes to pass. No Declaration of War , possibly no Toronado and Soft Falling Rain , no Sky Lantern or The Fugue etc .
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Newmarket forecast to have just as much rain this week, so ultimately wouldn't/shouldn't make a difference. Although I don't particularly like Newmarket, think this meeting 'sat' better there than Ascot.
 
When people start moaning in the coming months about how all jumps racing revolves around Cheltenham and how overhyped it is they should be reminded of what a mess the tail end of the flat always is.
 
Euronymous said:
When people start moaning in the coming months about how all jumps racing revolves around Cheltenham and how overhyped it is they should be reminded of what a mess the tail end of the flat always is.
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Well it is now - it used to have a structure .
 
It was withering. If you think the November handicap, and Racing Post trophy were a good way to end the season (in their incarnation circa 2010) I can't agree.

Newmarket racecourse is one of the most soul destroying places I have ever been to (and I have been to Monaghan), so the more races to move away from there the better, in my book.
 
I'm looking forward to going. Whatever happens. The crowd and coverage will be far in excess of the Newmarket day (which I went to twice and was very underwhelming).

Gamma is right. Soft ground is not the end of the world ffs
 
Bar the Bull said:
Newmarket racecourse is one of the most soul destroying places I have ever been to (and I have been to Monaghan), so the more races to move away from there the better, in my book.
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My visits to Newmarket have tended to be for the Guineas Meeting in the spring and for the July Meeting but I have vivid memories of attending on Champion Stakes day in 1985. The place was absolutely packed in anticipation of the Slip Anchor - Commanche Run showdown (although in the event they were both upstaged by a virtuoso performance from Pebbles which brought the house down) and what I remember most is the tremendous sense of anticipation and tension in the stands as they went to post. I've never subscribed since then to the idea that the place is by definition soulless and can't attract a crowd.

It was a long time ago, granted, but I don't think things have changed so much.
 
clivex said:
I'm looking forward to going. Whatever happens. The crowd and coverage will be far in excess of the Newmarket day (which I went to twice and was very underwhelming).

Gamma is right. Soft ground is not the end of the world ffs
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The Arc's done fine with regular soft ground runnings so I'd be inclined to agree.

Ascot is a better track than Newmarket, with better facilities. The Dewhurst/middle park should be run on the same day as the fillies mile and chevely park. Then it really would be a 2yo championship, which is what I thought they were doing in the first place.
 
Agree, what a fine focused card that would be

The public turn up to ascot regardless. It's a smart track now and somewhere where the occasional race goer after an occasion will turn up at. Which makes it an occasion in itself
 
Aragorn said:
The Arc's done fine with regular soft ground runnings so I'd be inclined to agree.

Ascot is a better track than Newmarket, with better facilities. The Dewhurst/middle park should be run on the same day as the fillies mile and chevely park. Then it really would be a 2yo championship, which is what I thought they were doing in the first place.
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It was before they messed with it, now it's terrible.

One of the best atmosphere and crowds I have been to was at Newmarket for the Champions meeting in 2003 and the race it was most animated for was the Jockey Club Cup, and the hero that was Persian Punch. The crowd went crazy when he started to rally after looking beat, and positively beserk when the photo was called. Would never get that kind of reaction at Ascot.
 
You can't seriously think the old facilities at ascot were better? I hear that sometimes and it baffles me. The bars and inside were dated with low ceilings and generaly horrible. Visiting the paddock meant missing the bloody race. That bloody tunnel

The place was tatty and an awful layout
 
Newmarket was like a morgue for the Champions card in 2006.

In spite of the presence of Hurricane Run, Finsceal Beo, Sir Percy, Teofilo, Holy Roman Emperor and Detroit City.

And the weather was nice. The ground was perfect. It just felt like a damp squib.
 
Slightly off topic, but would any of you care to recommend a taxi company for a reliable and reasonably priced day trip return on Saturday (from Heathrow to Ascot and back)? Many thanks.
 
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The new stand wrecked the Rowley Mile course at Newmarket. The old Victorian stand may have been tatty but went several floors up and there were loads of seats outside . There was a snug old tea room under the stairs , bars in the basement and it was much easier to get from the course to the paddock . Nowadays it is like a giant Wetherspoons with a few seats and getting round it is a nightmare .

As bulldozing it is no doubt not an option I doubt Newmarket will ever recover its atmosphere.It certainly used to have one - there was a real sense of being at the home of racing.
 
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Aragorn said:
The Arc's done fine with regular soft ground runnings so I'd be inclined to agree.

Ascot is a better track than Newmarket, with better facilities. The Dewhurst/middle park should be run on the same day as the fillies mile and chevely park. Then it really would be a 2yo championship, which is what I thought they were doing in the first place.
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I disagree I would scrap Future Champions Day altogether

Then rebuild the other three meetings scrap Future Champions Day , return the Royal Lodge and Fillies Mile to Ascot two weeks before , the Middle Park to the Cambridgeshire meeting and the Dewhurst and the Rockfel to Cesarewitch day .Give Newmarket its Group 3 sprint back too.

Newmarket may feel it has lost out but it often does things regardless of the interests of others e.g July Cup Saturday .

I still think it is a great shame we have no 1m 4f championship race in this country after July . A new G1 a month after the Arc on the last day of the season would be much more attractive than the declining Breeders Cup .
 
Can't agree on the 1m4f race. It would be full of slow, mud loving stayers. And nobody would turn up or care because the jumps would be in full swing.
 
clivex said:
You can't seriously think the old facilities at ascot were better? I hear that sometimes and it baffles me. The bars and inside were dated with low ceilings and generaly horrible. Visiting the paddock meant missing the bloody race. That bloody tunnel

The place was tatty and an awful layout
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Yes seriously I do. My recollection of the bars is not that good as I spent little time in them as racing is about horses not standing in a bar, but the pre parade ring was better laid out, there was access to all sides of it, it was a 5 yard walk to the paddock,(in the winter paddock was in front of stand which hey was right next to the rail so didn't have to walk anywhere to see the race) which again was better laid out, not surrounded by very unfriendly narrow steps, you could cross the horsewalk over all of it, and not have to walk up stairs, across a walkway which looks like a NCP carpark and then down steps to try and view the horses in the paddock without getting knocked sideways by anyone else, and then up steps and across NCP car park again to get out to course, where unless you are up in the gods you cannot see until they are well into last furlong and a half as the ground floor viewing is so badly laid out, and then from the paddock it was a 10 yard walk to the stands where you could pick your slot, and the winners enclosure was right next to said stand so you could stay in the stand if you wanted to and still see the horses come in. Since the 'refit' the prices of everything are ridiculous and prohibitive to regular race going.
 
Narcotic Nora said:
Slightly off topic, but would any of you care to recommend a taxi company for a reliable and reasonably priced day trip return on Saturday (from Heathrow to Ascot and back)? Many thanks.
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I'd get a cab to Feltham or a bus and get the train direct to Ascot from there. Traffic was a nightmare last year (but the idiots did close a bridge nearby).

Ascot cabs are an absolute disgrace, it's worse than outside some New Delhi train stations for price extortion.

Off topic, Ardross whilst I have sympathy with some of your views, you are coming over as the forum grumpy old man who thinks everything was better in the old days :)
 
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