Charlie Hebdo protests

A march, a demonstration, and 100,000 signatures protesting against a cartoon ...............
But not a whimper from them against beheadings, crucifixions, burning prisoners alive -- all done in the name of their religion.
What planet are these people on ?
 
And as Clive hints at, can they not see the glaring irony of their protesting against free speech whilst enjoying that same freedom to make their protest ?
 
icebreaker said:
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But not a whimper from them against beheadings, crucifixions, burning prisoners alive -- all done in the name of their religion.
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Simple answer i would think is they do not accept the extremists as being part of their religion. Seeing as how all extremists who kill any living being ...break the basic rule of their religion... thats fair i would think. They do not view the extremists as in any way representative of their religion.

I can do all sorts "in the name" of anything i want..it doesn't mean i in any way represent what i say i am in the name of.

If i go out and carry out an attack on something/someone..and say its in the name of white english people..does that mean the next day there has to be a rally of white english saying they condemn it?

If there isn't a rally..does it mean every white english person agrees with my action?

but even though..imo..they don't need to..they do object

http://aliceedu.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/muslims-in-europe-rally-against.html
 
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EC1 said:
Simple answer i would think is they do not accept the extremists as being part of their religion.
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Then they're living in fantasy-land.
This is a truism I think they need to reflect hard upon:- Islam may not be all about Jihad, but, Jihad is all about Islam.
They -- the general Muslim community -- have juice in this game, whether they accept it or not. And they need to come out and unequivocably condemn the ISIS savagery.
When the IRA "campaign" was at its height, the Nationalist/Catholic people of Northern Ireland marched in their tens of thousands -- weekly -- to say "Not In Our Name". Every Catholic priest in these islands condemned the IRA from the pulpit each Sunday.


The blog post you link, EC, doesn't show that many at the rally, does it? Maybe 20 of them as against 100,000 yesterday in London protesting about a cartoon. I also note that the blog-post was published almost six months ago; a lot of even worse stuff has happened since.
 
there have been lots of Muslims speak out Ice..and no..i totally disagree with you they shouldn't need to...but plenty have..you said none have

explain how the extremist is of the same religion..he has broken the main rule of the religion..so is not in any way anything to do with that religion any more as far as true Muslims are concerned.

I'll just say..I've personally no interest in any religion..i'd ban it worldwide given a chance..be a better world..but that does give me a neutral view of this...and i don't see you as neutral from what i'm reading..you are virtually demanding that people march for your benefit when they have no need to.

Charlie Hebdo people admitted they let anti Muslim feelings take over in the last few years..and lets be honest..yes they have every right to print cartoons...even though they look like a 3yo has drawn them..they aren't really even funny imo.

but that brings up what is funny doesn't it? I think humour affects people differently...i find things funny that you don't...so if i crack a joke about a murderer.....yes i have the free right to make the joke...but if that person does turn up and kill me i shouldn't really be too surprised...his sense of humour isn't like mine you see..in fact he hasn't got one at all.....so instead of just not laughing..he's done what comes naturally to him.
 
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Important to get some numbers right before people start conforming with what they want

The Telegraph article says at least 1,000 people were protesting (that's small - and that might be more of a concern given that the overall message was an appeal for restraint and respect). The figure of 100,000 are names on a petition. It was not the number "yesterday in London protesting about a cartoon". Also I think the group did condem the Charlie Hebdo killings and make a reasonably fair comment which the DT do a decent job in reporting

The Forum delivered a petition to 10 Downing Street signed by over 100,000 British Muslims to highlight the view that the majority of Muslims worldwide call for 'Global Civility' rather than destruction of human life.
The group also expressed "deep regret" at the Paris terror attacks, which included a massacre at Charlie Hebdo, saying they were a "violation of Islamic law".
Shaykh Tauqir Ishaq, a senior spokesman for the Forum, said "Perpetual mistakes by extremists, either by cold-blooded killers or uncivilised expressionists, cannot be the way forward for a civilised society.
"The peace-loving majority of people must become vociferous in promoting global civility and responsible debate. At this time of heightened tension and emotion, it is crucial that both sides show restraint to prevent further incidents of this nature occurring."
Shaykh Noor Siddiqi, another Forum representative, said "The actions of the UK media in not publishing the cartoons is highly appreciated by British Muslims and we hope that this kind of self-restraint and mutual respect will ultimately lead to a harmonious society."
 
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I dont have a problem with their protests and they have been clear that they wish to do it in the right way. Maybe there has been progress in the uk? The protests against Rushdie were far more explicit in their demand for violence and on the other side, there was far too little will to confront their demands

But there has to be a realisation that free speech and expression is governed by the freedoms governed by british law and some demand by a religious cult.
 
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Linking this to the non protest against ISIS is missing the point imo. The point here is that you have a material amount of people from one sector of society who don't share the same values and beliefs (non religious) as other parts of society, and rather than accept and share in the civilisation of the country in which they live in, they seek to change it to be in line with their warped religion. The problem is this part of society is growing and it will cause huge problems in the years to come. You don't need to be of a UKIP mentality to see this - there has been so much positive immigration to the UK where a race of people have adapted near seamlessly into society, to the extent where relationships between them (Indian, to be clear) and white British are commonplace; this will never happen with the Muslim community.
 
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disagree completely with that..

what we have is people who are in a religion and have virtually nil sense of humour...nothing to do with values and beliefs...thats what is causing the problem with this Hebdo stuff...with Muslims in this country...so any attack as they see it on their religion..especially satire will annoy them...and as they live here they have every right to protest that annoyance.

If i could arrange a protest against the cartoons just for being completely crap i would do.:)

i've got a sense of humour..and even to me the Hebdo stuff is childish..and in the case of the monkey..racist?.... and sad in the extreme..doesn't amuse me at all..but like i said we all find different things funny.

Did anyone really think Muslims will like satire carried out by what looks like children? really? Even if it were funny satire they won't laugh.

I am happy they are protesting..as long as it stays at that i've no problem.

or shall we make it illegal for Muslims to have protests?
 
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I agree with Hamm. Whilst the protesting has been less strident than in the past it is fair to say that if you were to take the Niqab as a sign of radicalisation and adherence to the more extreme wings of Islam (not an unreasonable assumption) then we soon see that it is far more prevalent on our streets than in the recent past.

you could say the same about the Stamford hill jews of course but there is an underlying sense that Islam seeks to impose its will. However as time goes it is possible that that could defuse, but to do so,they have to know that the rest of society will not concede an inch.
 
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Yep Hamm's right on this one

As I've said elsewhere, I've just got really dismal appraisal of where we're heading on this one. I regard it as unavoidable. I've sadly concluded that the opportunity to put a lid on this has been lost due to mistakes in made the last decade. We'd be well advised to start clandestine preparations now
 
Warbler said:
Yep Hamm's right on this one

As I've said elsewhere, I've just got really dismal appraisal of where we're heading on this one. I regard it as unavoidable. I've sadly concluded that the opportunity to put a lid on this has been lost due to mistakes in made the last decade. We'd be well advised to start clandestine preparations now

Got to agree the Muslims have a agenda to take advantage of all our western freedoms for there own benefits some tough times to come the politicians have let this country down with immigration policies, can anyone hand on heart say this country and cities are better than in the 80 s .Immigration of Muslims are making ghettos in every major city.
Horrible Stone Age religion that brainwashes anyone who follows it !
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The promotion of 'global civility' and 'reasoned debate' is 100%, unequivocally, incompatible, with a religion which takes offence at cartoons.

This is self-evident fact, and unless someone comes along and re-writes the Koran, it will always be fact.

I've come to the conclusion that their religion is, I'm afraid, pretty-much incompatible with Western life, and even moderate Muslims probably feel a degree of schizophrenia, just going about their day. This might explain the consistent 'Yes, but....' we tend to get whenever an atrocity is carried-out.
 
Grasshopper said:
I've come to the conclusion that their religion is, I'm afraid, pretty-much incompatible with Western life, and even moderate Muslims probably feel a degree of schizophrenia, just going about their day. This might explain the consistent 'Yes, but....' we tend to get whenever an atrocity is carried-out.
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This is absolutely spot on and until people in power admit this or at least start a meaningful debate, we will go down a funny road.
 
EC1 said:
What you gonna do about it then? Throw them all out? re train them?

agenda to take freedoms..which ones?[/QUOTE

A good starting point no more mosques to be built anywhere in the uk and a complete cap on all Muslim immigrants.No other way to deal with it
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Lesta said:
EC1 said:
What you gonna do about it then? Throw them all out? re train them?

agenda to take freedoms..which ones?[/QUOTE

A good starting point no more mosques to be built anywhere in the uk and a complete cap on all Muslim immigrants.No other way to deal with it
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On the whole we in this country get on great with Sikhs ,Jews and nearly all minorities intergration happens
and they are as British as I am,but with Muslims they can't they don't want too because there religion won't allow them all our western values and freedoms are wasted they are only interested in there own agendas unless there is some drastic rewriting of the Koran to modify it dramatically from the stone age it will keep on banging away at all free speech. All around the world it's happening the only way you can have a stable Muslim country is by dictatorship any thing else any sort of freedoms they can't cope with really you have got to feel sorry for them being so deluded
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Hamm said:
Linking this to the non protest against ISIS is missing the point imo. The point here is that you have a material amount of people from one sector of society who don't share the same values and beliefs (non religious) as other parts of society, and rather than accept and share in the civilisation of the country in which they live in, they seek to change it to be in line with their warped religion. The problem is this part of society is growing and it will cause huge problems in the years to come. You don't need to be of a UKIP mentality to see this - there has been so much positive immigration to the UK where a race of people have adapted near seamlessly into society, to the extent where relationships between them (Indian, to be clear) and white British are commonplace; this will never happen with the Muslim community.
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I take this on board but actions do speak louder than words. I worry that in the end we'll get to a point where we start telling people what they're allowed to think.

You are allowed to think things that may be different to the rest of society.

It's at the point of action or violence towards others that you cross the line.

So much in the press about anti-semitism on the rise in the U.K , but can someone point me in any direction why this is jusfied?

I think it's sensationlist folly and groups like the important jews/rabbi's trying to work hand-in-hand with the Britsh goverment, to say how they feel under attack, to then keep pressing home the issue of Islam within the U.K, (or just let David Cameron and Theresa May do it for them).

The way to lead this forward is to maintain freedom of speech within legal boundaries, that goes for all sides.
 
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Through a combination of weight of numbers, complacent decadance on the part of the hosts, and selectively picking up and learning from the fruits of living within, barbarian tribes have over thrown great civilisations before

I'm increasingly convinced a third world war is going to be fought between cross and crescent in the future. I just think it's unavoidable now.

I think when the history books are written though, the last decade will be seminal. It was in this period that the west (albeit we should call it America because they'd have done it anyway) made a series of catastrophic strategic misjudgements. I think history will record, like some imbecilic Roman Emporers before him, that we had an absolute moron on watch who was marching to a deadly tune of corporate self interest, stoked up by a family feud that he made personal

In pursuing this agenda he took out our first line of defence and created a much more powerful opponent. This was further exacerabated by displacing people all aroudn the globe many of whom are now living amongst and populating our own societies. It's true to say we are westernising some, but many more seem to be showing obedience conformation to the authority beyond

I also think that we're moving into a period now that history will describe as the great inertia, when the established powers of the world not only failed to reach out to each other, but also failed to embrace new powers and old enemies in a united front
 
No Warbler, much as your notradamous-like vision is more and more feasible, what happened 12 years ago is no justification for genocide, murder, or the fantasies people want to live out. Namely ISIS, Boko Haram and Vladamir Putin.

That would make us all hostages to other people/groups/religions political motives, for the rest of etermity, based on the Iraq war of 2003.

The above is not a notion I want to intellectually embrace.

The bottom line is, if world war three has already started, or is going to start, such an action will have happend regardless of Blair/Bush invasion of 2003. In other words, it would have happened and will happen anyway.
 
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Warbler said:
Through a combination of weight of numbers, complacent decadance on the part of the hosts, and selectively picking up and learning from the fruits of living within, barbarian tribes have over thrown great civilisations before

I'm increasingly convinced a third world war is going to be fought between cross and crescent in the future. I just think it's unavoidable now.

I think when the history books are written though, the last decade will be seminal. It was in this period that the west (albeit we should call it America because they'd have done it anyway) made a series of catastrophic strategic misjudgements. I think history will record, like some imbecilic Roman Emporers before him, that we had an absolute moron on watch who was marching to a deadly tune of corporate self interest, stoked up by a family feud that he made personal

In pursuing this agenda he took out our first line of defence and created a much more powerful opponent. This was further exacerabated by displacing people all aroudn the globe many of whom are now living amongst and populating our own societies. It's true to say we are westernising some, but many more seem to be showing obedience conformation to the authority beyond

I also think that we're moving into a period now that history will describe as the great inertia, when the established powers of the world not only failed to reach out to each other, but also failed to embrace new powers and old enemies in a united front
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Unfortunately you are probably spot on.
 
many more seem to be showing obedience conformation to the authority beyond
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Which authority, Warbler? Islam doesn't have an equivalent of the Pope. Plenty of Muslim immigrants are staying in touch with their roots, but they are not one homogenous mass of people ready to march to the same beat.

And before concluding that it is Islam itself that is the core of the problem, it shouldn't be forgotten that there have been millions of Muslims already living peacefully enough in Europe for centuries.
 
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