Chasers & Hurdlers 2014/2015

Frankel said:
You can make a case for him getting it for sure. Ultimately I'm going by my eye which tells me King George. I'm in no doubt either that he's a special horse. Just think he maybe stretched in a Gold Cup. If he does get the trip I'm in no doubt he'll win. Will probably take some getting mind if all the principles line up. Could be a monster of a Gold Cup.
Not that the Ryanair will enter calculations unless he folds before hand. How far would he win that race by.
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Mullins wants to win races so he'll be strong for the best chances in each race. Agreed that he probably won't fail for stamina before Cheltenham so, fitness permitting, the Gold Cup looks the likely target. I'm guessing that Vroum Vroum Mag might be Ricci's Ryanair horse.
 
Don Cossack looks massively overrated to me. I can see the argument for him being top rated but 10lb (Or is it 9?!) higher than Coneygree?!! That horse is not getting the respect he deserves for that Gold Cup, an absolute monster of a performance. He is a Lion.
 
Frankel said:
You can make a case for him getting it for sure. Ultimately I'm going by my eye which tells me King George. I'm in no doubt either that he's a special horse. Just think he maybe stretched in a Gold Cup. If he does get the trip I'm in no doubt he'll win. Will probably take some getting mind if all the principles line up. Could be a monster of a Gold Cup.
Not that the Ryanair will enter calculations unless he folds before hand. How far would he win that race by.
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If (when :D) Vautour wins the King George, then the Gold Cup becomes the de-facto target.....I can't see the Ryanair entering calculations in anything other the direst of circumstances - in which case, you'd probably hesitate before backing him anyway.
 
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Coneygree does deserve a lot of respect. But not too much as I was sat on 50/1 Djakadam.
Ruddy ballbag shouldn't have even been in it :cool:
 
Grasshopper said:
If (when :D) Vautour wins the King George, then the Gold Cup becomes the de-facto target.....I can't see the Ryanair entering calculations in anything other the direst of circumstances - in which case, you'd probably hesitate before backing him anyway.
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Yep he's already won the KG - with you. Thought it after the Supreme. Though beg forgiveness for doubting him there.
Djak is my boy for gold.
The Ryanair is highly unlikely I know. Could just see him running a massive number there.
 
archie said:
Mullins wants to win races so he'll be strong for the best chances in each race. Agreed that he probably won't fail for stamina before Cheltenham so, fitness permitting, the Gold Cup looks the likely target. I'm guessing that Vroum Vroum Mag might be Ricci's Ryanair horse.
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VVM is very interesting no doubt.
You could fill the 10 to follow with Mullins. Ricci for that matter.
 
Does Douvan definitely go novice-chasing?

If the Timeform ratings are accurate, Douvan isn't very far off Faugheen's level, and whilst I think it's unlikely he'll be kept hurdling, it's not altogether impossible.

And even if he does go over fences, which race do you back him in? Again, the Arkle is probably the intnded target, but Mullins is obviously happy to send a top prospect to the JLT, and there has to be a risk that the longer race might become a consideration at some stage.

Too mqny ifs, buts and maybes, for me to view Douvan as an ante-post prospect.....at this stage, at least.
 
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Grasshopper said:
Does Douvan definitely go novice-chasing?

If the Timeform ratings are accurate, Douvan isn't very far off Faugheen's level, and whilst I think it's unlikely he'll be kept hurdling, it's not altogether impossible.

And even if he does go over fences, which race do you back him in? Again, the Arkle is probably the intnded target, but Mullins is obviously happy to send a top prospect to the JLT, and there has to be a risk that the longer race might become a consideration at some stage.

Too mqny ifs, buts and maybes, for me to view Douvan as an ante-post prospect.....at this stage, at least.
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no solid word but i imagine he goes over a fence unless he doesn't take to it at home. purely for mullins & ricci to keep their options spread around.

and if he does i'd imagine the arkle would be the target. don't think the horse wants a longer trip just yet.
 
Frankel said:
Yep he's already won the KG - with you. Thought it after the Supreme. Though beg forgiveness for doubting him there.
Djak is my boy for gold.
The Ryanair is highly unlikely I know. Could just see him running a massive number there.
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Granted, I am somewhat smitten.

I just keep thinking back to the way he skipped round in both the Supreme and the JLT. He hasn't even been in a race, in two Championship events at the Festival. I think he will prove to be different gravy to any chaser in training (possibly UDS apart).
 
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archie said:
Mullins wants to win races so he'll be strong for the best chances in each race. Agreed that he probably won't fail for stamina before Cheltenham so, fitness permitting, the Gold Cup looks the likely target. I'm guessing that Vroum Vroum Mag might be Ricci's Ryanair horse.
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There is a good mares series for her at home. They could make a lot of money never really testing her
 
Grasshopper said:
Does Douvan definitely go novice-chasing?
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Its not confirmed in print but given who won the champion, 99% likely.

i remember seeing a still of him mid race and in his maiden hurdle and he looked a man versus boys. He needs to be fill out a bit. I'd say that there is no way he goes for RSA but wouldn't rule out the 2m4f
 
Grasshopper said:
Granted, I am somewhat smitten.

I just keep thinking back to the way he skipped round in both the Supreme and the JLT. He hasn't even been in a race, in two Championship events at the Festival. I think he will prove to be different gravy to any chaser in training (possibly UDS apart).
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He has looked awesome at Cheltenham.
My only slight regret, with another trainer would have been in the Arkle where he would have wiped the ar*e of UDS up ways, sideways and any which way you like. Though on softer ground I would be less vocal. Clearly a good animal.

As for Douvan. My abiding memories of Champion day in reverse order were Ruby jogging up the track after Annie fell.
Thank fu*ck she got up,
Can't wait to get home to watch Douvan again, (was not totally convinced going in),
In 1st place - Douvan is a right tool. ( He wins next year). Whichever race (assumption was Arkle).
 
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Euronymous said:
He fell in the RSA, he made a bad mistake in the Ryanair, exactly. At his price I'd want to be a lot more confident of an error free round.
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Yes but that doesn't mean he doesn't handle Chelt, he's just prone to errors which others are too; except maybe Coneygree which is the best jumper in the last 5-10 years, especially as a novice. The AP prices these days provide abs. no value but my point was that he should be favourite.

Vautour we don't even know he stays, Ruby said he doesn't have the same gears as Douvan but does that necessarily means he'll stay 3m2f? Best sign we'll get will be in the KG against Conti.
Coneygree needs soft ground so with 6 months left how do we know he'll get it ?
Djakadam and RTR were well behind The Don and they were both given a break after Chelt unlike him who had a hard race at Aintree as well.
Don Poli form is at least 10 pounds below whats needed for a GC (especially this season with so many talented horses involved) and although he has the right profile for it will he show improvement ?
 
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Not a lot wrong with Don Cossack

but Coneygree ran only 4 times and won the Gold Cup while still in his nappies

If that was not the performance of the year I am a Dutchman.
 
Grasshopper said:
Does Douvan definitely go novice-chasing?

If the Timeform ratings are accurate, Douvan isn't very far off Faugheen's level, and whilst I think it's unlikely he'll be kept hurdling, it's not altogether impossible.

And even if he does go over fences, which race do you back him in? Again, the Arkle is probably the intnded target, but Mullins is obviously happy to send a top prospect to the JLT, and there has to be a risk that the longer race might become a consideration at some stage.

Too mqny ifs, buts and maybes, for me to view Douvan as an ante-post prospect.....at this stage, at least.
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I bloody well hope he goes chasing having backed Peace and Co for the Champion.

The very second WM says he is going chasing I will be on Douvan in a flash......if he jumps round any racecourse, even if he only beats a 3 legged donkey he will be 4/6 in a flash.

Whether one lays him off again is their choice but they wont be taking any risks price wise with him......looks a helluva horse.

As far as the CH goes if he were to run in it he'd beat Faugheen IMO but CH plus Arkle is better than 1-plus place in the CH.

I think he'll go chasing but Willie wouldn't show you a birds nest until the bird has shown he can fly so it's a very much wait and see.
 
Grasshopper said:
No doubt, but backing him for the Arkle isn't much cop if Mullins sends him to the JLT instead.
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As it stands the main Mullins rival to Douvan in novice chases appears to be Shaneshill. Whereas Douvan has been campaigned exclusively at around 2 miles, Shaneshill has won at two and a half and run respectably at three. It's a given that second guessing Mullins is a short cut to the poor house but all the indicators are that he'll go for the Arkle. He is 2/1 to win any race at the Festival but that is the sort of price where I tend to back off given how many ways there are for a jumper to pick up an injury.
 
You could have said exactly the same thing about Vautour this time last year, Archie - exactly the same thing.
 
No you couldn't because, as Slim so pointedly remarked, Vautour's chasing rival in the stable was UDS and there was little doubt which route UDS would take.

No big deal anyway because odds below 5/1 this far ahead are only for small stakes accas.
 
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