Cheltenham Gold Cup 2015

Warbler said:
The best thing to do I think, would be to set aside a complete day for the amateur, point to point, and countryside type who are after all the bedrock of so much of the NH scene. Yes some of us might sneer at the barbour wearing folk (me included) but it's difficult to argue that they're an irrelevance and without them the sport would be much poorer

We already have the Foxhunters, National Hunt Cup, Pipe Conditions (surely to have AP's name added to it?) The Cross County Chase, & The Kim Muir. For the most part these aren't races that really capture our imagination. I don't have any problem with adding another hurdles of a similar ilk and trying in effect to create an amateurs Champion Hurdle. Basically give them their own dedicated day to celebrate their contribution (a bit like the FA Trophy). It would also allow the better quality races to be more condensed on the other 4 days

The biggest issue I have with my proposal is whether my countryside day becomes the first day, or whether it's inserted on the middle day. A few years ago we had a break of course because of high winds, and I'm not so sure it didn't help a bit on reflection, allowing us to recharge. Running on the Thursday on the Old Course would also mean that they aren't damaging the ground

The fifth day is inevitable, my only surprise is that it hasn't before now, but let's be pragmatic, they've got a new grandstand and facilities to pay for! If we accept the inevitability of it, then the question really is one of what it should look like
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Patronising post of the year award goes to....

Yes, let's let the tweedy countryside idiots have their own day, totally apart from the proper racing. Oh, but make sure they don't ruin the ground!

Twat. "A bit like the FA Trophy"? FFS.
 
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Had a good drink this evening have you Benny?

If it hadn't already occured to you (almost certainly won't have done, because alcohol does that to you) Cheltenham already has a 'countryside day'(s) as do many NH courses, and have run them for years - perhaps you'd be so good as to hurl your abuse at them? No didn't think so somehow :lol: - Remind me how many times the countryside set have complained to the BHA or their local courses about being patronised when they're offered the spotlight to showcase their lifestyle and arts and crafts etc? none?

Fakenham have even turned their card into a quasi party political manifesto before now. Few other sports would be allowed to get away this, but such is the low profile of sport and track it tended to regsiter a mild amusement rather than anything else

So once you've got over the tidal wave of precedents that already exist, try and imagine how good the other four days would look with the concentration of quality races that you could now run without cards being diluted by amateur races. In any event, the amateurs would probably be better showcased with their own dedicated day anyway rather than being lost in the headlines generated by the more prestigious races

twat!
 
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The best thing to do I think, would be to set aside a complete day for the amateur, point to point, and countryside type who are after all the bedrock of so much of the NH scene.
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They already have a hunter chase evening at the end of the season with various finals, would clash a bit with this.
 
Diamond Geezer said:


They already have a hunter chase evening at the end of the season with various finals, would clash a bit with this.
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I would say how patronising of them, but won't bother.

I don't see why it should clash, and Cheltenham do these kind of themed 'days' for a reason, namely there is a fan base and a contribution made etc My best guess is that they'd happily accept something on a larger scale with a more prominent profile

To some extent you can reverse engineer the 5th day connundrum and ask what the new featured race will be? The RyanAir? Well the World Hurdle is already the weakest of the feature races and the RyanAir lends a degree of ballast to Thursday which giving it a dedicated would rob it of. You're starting to design a damaged product

You might take a look at Royal Ascot as a 5 day pointer. Their middle day is anchored by the the longest and oldest race they have. Now I'm no fan of the Ascot Gold Cup (it never does it for me) but does the scope exist to make the National Hunt Cup the fifth day feature and try and generate something of an Aintree feel about (present it as future GN stars if you like). If the NH Cup is to be showpiece feature, then the logical thing to try and do is wrap the other amateur/ conditionals races round with it to provide a theme.

So now we have the National Hunt Cup with the Kim Muir, Martin Pipe Hurdle, and Foxhunters. The Cross Country is a natural fit to provide a fifth race, and I suppose if there's a future element to it, you might have to put the bumper in as the last
 
Warbler said:
does the scope exist to make the National Hunt Cup the fifth day feature
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No, it doesn't exist. The NH Chase is a filler race for horses that are too slow to run in the Arkle/JLT/RSA and is less able to underpin anything than any of those races.

A 5th day (and I can't say I'd be against the idea), would be best served by following the already successful formula - no need for future champions day, or amateur hour imo.

The current format is as follows:

..................Tue Wed Thu Fri
G1 Hdl .........2...........1
G1 Ch .................1 ...1....1
G1 Nov Hdl ...1.....1..........2
G1 Nov Ch ....1.....1....1
Hcp Hdl ...............2....1....2
Hcp Ch .........2...........2....1
NHF ....................1
Other ...........1.....1..........1

You'd be choosing from the World Hurdle, Ryanair or Mares Hurdle for your highlight race or a new 2m4f Hdl - can't see it impacting Aintree any more than the Ryanair has affected the Melling Chase. Personally I'd go for a 2m4f Hdl and a Veterans Chase. Shuffle about the races where 2 of the same type appear in one day and a fifth day appears nicely.

Royal Ascot always used to be the Heath meeting at the end, which I always thought was pish - new format is much more satisfying and it would work fine for Cheltenham too.



PS - Put my ******* spaces back in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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Diamond Geezer said:
Coneygree has been given an official mark of 172 by the BHA after his Gold Cup success last week, the highest mark for a novice this century.
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So what they are telling us that had the 3 ran this same year the result would have been :-

1. Long Run

2. Bobs Worth

3. Coneygree

Distance 1 length and 9 lengths

Time: Faster than a speeding bullet?

EC you can work that one out but something doesn't compute
 
Anyone think with breeding nowadays leaning more towards speed the Gold Cup distance should be the same as the King George?

Always seemed a bit odd to me the distance is not 3 miles

It's a bit like running all the Champion Hurdle trials at 2 miles the running the CH itself over 2m2f

Granted the Hennessy is 3m2f but that very seldom supplies the winner..........Denman and Bobs Worth but 2 in 30 doesn't make it a race of champions or even a good trial
 
simmo said:
No, it doesn't exist. The NH Chase is a filler race for horses that are too slow to run in the Arkle/JLT/RSA and is less able to underpin anything than any of those races.

A 5th day (and I can't say I'd be against the idea), would be best served by following the already successful formula - no need for future champions day, or amateur hour imo.

The current format is as follows:

Tue Wed Thu Fri
G1 Hdl 2 1
G1 Ch 1 1 1
G1 Nov Hdl 1 1 2
G1 Nov Ch 1 1 1
Hcp Hdl 2 1 2
Hcp Ch 2 2 1
NHF 1
Other 1 1 1

You'd be choosing from the World Hurdle, Ryanair or Mares Hurdle for your highlight race or a new 2m4f Hdl - can't see it impacting Aintree any more than the Ryanair has affected the Melling Chase. Personally I'd go for a 2m4f Hdl and a Veterans Chase. Shuffle about the races where 2 of the same type appear in one day and a fifth day appears nicely.
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The NH Cup might be a filler, but it's a filler with history and a natural core following. There's pelnty of better races at Royal Ascot than the Gold Cup that they don't use as feature races but by making the oldest race the feature and throwing a theme at the day, it usually outsells the Tuesday for attendances (which is the stronger racing day)

You couldn't possibly hope to dupe people into believing that the Mares hurdle is a feature race. It's highly questionable (imho) that it's even worthy of a Gd1 status. It's a terminally weak division in which one good horse can dominate also rans. That's all that's needed. There just isn't the throughput. Let's be under no illusion, the likes of Asian Maze, Solerina, and Sweet Kiln would have won it too had this thing been around at the time.

The World Hurdle already is the feature race of the Thursday, so you wouldn't be choosing there. You'd effectively be choosing as to whether to put the RyanAir forward as your 5th feature race and thus removing it from the role it currently plays in supporting the weakest of the four existing features, and what was always been regarded as the weakest of the four days.

I'd agree with you about the 2 and half mile hurdle. I was always in favour of the equivalent chase, and it's worked pretty well with regarded to not impacting the Melling like many suggested. I think Aintree probably needs fixing in the calender and some kind of incentive needed to set up triple crowns. I don't see why a 20F need damage Liverpool's

I dare say a staying handciap chase run over 4 miles plus would work if they were able to come to some accommodation with Uttoxeter. The Midlands National has already proven that a credible field could be assembled, and with the added lustre of what I would assume would be a bigger purse, plus that increasingly important 'festival win' on the CV, up for grabs, it would take off as the 'Cheltenham National'. The country does have something of an affiliation to staying handicap chases.

Sadly, as you've worked out, your table hasn't worked so I can't get a handle on what you're proposing. You can sometimes get round the editor failing to read spaces by using a succession of full stops
 
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Oh but Harry. "We know what you are"

or or should I say the inadequate billynomates creeps think they do
 
Warbler said:
Had a good drink this evening have you Benny?

If it hadn't already occured to you (almost certainly won't have done, because alcohol does that to you) Cheltenham already has a 'countryside day'(s) as do many NH courses, and have run them for years - perhaps you'd be so good as to hurl your abuse at them? No didn't think so somehow :lol: - Remind me how many times the countryside set have complained to the BHA or their local courses about being patronised when they're offered the spotlight to showcase their lifestyle and arts and crafts etc? none?

Fakenham have even turned their card into a quasi party political manifesto before now. Few other sports would be allowed to get away this, but such is the low profile of sport and track it tended to regsiter a mild amusement rather than anything else

So once you've got over the tidal wave of precedents that already exist, try and imagine how good the other four days would look with the concentration of quality races that you could now run without cards being diluted by amateur races. In any event, the amateurs would probably be better showcased with their own dedicated day anyway rather than being lost in the headlines generated by the more prestigious races

twat!
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Agree witn every word.

im not against five days and it would make sense for one day to be geared towards the roots of the sport as we should say perhaps..

also I frankly dislike having the sister shaggers ramming fox hunting down our throats at these events. Clapping a load of smelly dogs shitting on the course with some fat beetroot faced prick with a trumpet..

a farmer hunting event with a pack of lions would be more of a fun spectacle imo. Leave the foxes alone. They don't **** our taxes up the wall on Soanking new range rovers.
 
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Back to the title of thread

Davy Russell has been jocked off Lord Windermere by culloty and says he won't be riding for him again
 
Warbler said:
Sadly, as you've worked out, your table hasn't worked so I can't get a handle on what you're proposing. You can sometimes get round the editor failing to read spaces by using a succession of full stops
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That's a bit better.

Essentially you'd be looking at something like this for the final day (or the first if it went on Monday)

Triumph Hurdle
2m4f Nov Hcp Ch
Coral Cup
2m4f Gd1 Hurdle
3m1f Veterans Hcp Ch
Div 2 County Hurdle

Which would leave the balance of each day nicely set up.

I wouldn't be in favour of messing about with the Midlands National - it's their biggest day of the year and is always a splendid race to finish off the week.
 
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Jambo said:
Back to the title of thread

Davy Russell has been jocked off Lord Windermere by culloty and says he won't be riding for him again
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Obviously not joking in his post race comments last year, That's a shame as Davy is a more than capable pilot.
 
I must say I'm surprised at this news myself... If anything, Davey Russell has gone up in my estimation since losing the Gigi job. How many winners has Culloty had since LW won the Gold Cup in 2014... I don't think it's very many!
 
From RP

Davy Russell has lost the ride on Lord Windermere, on whom he won the 2014 Betfred Cheltenham Gold Cup, following the nine-year-old's disappointing performance in the same race last week when he trailed throughout and was pulled up two out.
The rider said that trainer Jim Culloty was unhappy with his riding of Lord Windermere and had informed him that he would not be riding his horses in the future.
Russell said: "After the Gold Cup Jim told me he didn't want me riding his horses.
"He wasn't happy with the ride I gave the horse [Lord Windermere] and he said he wanted a change."
Speaking to the Irish Daily Star, Russell added: "It's very disappointing to lose the ride on Lord Windermere. I'll never forget last year's Gold Cup win on the horse which was one of the highlights of my career."
Russell, a dual Irish champion, has had 25 rides for Culloty this season. In addition to last year's Gold Cup success on Lord Windermere, he rode the Dr Ronan Lambe-owned chaser to victory in the RSA Chase in 2013.
 
That's a pretty rough decision then unless there's something we don't know then. Lord Windemere didn't travel an inch just the same as every other Culloty runner all season.

A scapegoat for Culloty as he tries to hang on to Lambe's patronage maybe?
 
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