Cheltenham Watering

Desert Orchid

Desert Orchid

Senior Jockey
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Aug 2, 2005
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This kind of thing really annoys me.

Gillespie turns on the taps claiming they are absolutely determined to have going on the soft side of good for the opening day.

What about all those fancied runers that need it good or better?

That's the meeting spoiled for me already.
 
It's what they have done every year. We have walked the track each of the last four years and they always produce ground on the soft side of good on day one and it gets faster during the week.
 
Ah the forum is back in life again I take it after yet another outage? (or is it my PC) Doesn't look as if any of the posts made during the down time survived though
 
Nothing was written to the database after 5.18pm last night until Cantoris' post above. As soon as we know what went on I will post something up. Just glad to be back!
 
Much as I hate Edward Gillespie (and who wouldn't?) it's worth pointing out that recent ground conditions at the Festival have been near perfect except for two years ago when the ground was too fast, so it's hard to blame them for wanting to water. Remember that last year's ground was in terrific shape despite the fact that it took a terrible pounding during a very wet season. It's also hardly Gillespie's call to water but that of Simon Claisse.
 
If they really must water, I'd rather they do it now in preference to panic watering if we get a dry week immediately before the meeting takes place.
 
I have no objection to watering.

It's the deliberate sabotaging of the hopes of fast ground horses on the first day that annoys me. Good ground is safe ground.
 
Originally posted by Desert Orchid@Feb 24 2008, 06:57 PM
I have no objection to watering.

It's the deliberate sabotaging of the hopes of fast ground horses on the first day that annoys me. Good ground is safe ground.
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Spot on.
 
I thought the problem was that they couldn't water during the meeting and therefore, if it is a dry week, they have no chance of producing good ground all week. If it is good on Tuesday it will be lightning by Friday. Caught in this difficult position, decisions need to be made and good ground needs to be provided on the Friday so the ground is produced on the soft side on day one. Someone might correct me if the watering point is incorrect.
 
They usually water on Wednesday night when they switch courses Cantoris. The problem is that they cannot do so where the two courses meet. The other issue is that when they produce ground on the fast side of good to soft for the Supreme it is usually on the slow side of good to firm by the time the last race is run on the same day.

The key is keeping the water table high enough so they don't have to water excessively to maintain safe ground and therefore they need to make sure they maintain the ground as close to what they want for the first race throughout the two weeks leading up to the opening day.
 
Wouldn't it really put the cat among the pigeons if we had a soft ground festival where it rained for 4 days.
 
I really couldn't give a monkeys what the ground is like, just so long as that muppet Claisse calls it accurately.

The going report for the Tuesday last year was a lie - pure and simple.
 
Latest from The Racing Post (4th March 2008)
Cheltenham officials face 'critical' watering decision
by Lee Mottershead

CHELTENHAM clerk of the course Simon Claisse will on Thursday morning take a "critical" decision over watering that could determine whether the Cheltenham Festival starts on ground that rides on the easy or quick side of good.

Claisse reported on Tuesday a going descriptionof good to soft, good in places following a day in which the weather was "fantastic" and watering continued.

That latest round of irrigation will end on Thursday, with a verdict on whether more watering will be carried out before the festival's start on Tuesday to be taken just hours later.

"We are going to have to take the critical watering decision on Thursday," said Claisse.

"In order to get round the Old and New Courses, which is an area of 65 acres or 25 football pitches, we need to spend four days watering, otherwise you wouldn't get consistency in the racing surface.
"The range of rain we are being forecast is eight to 13mm from Friday to Monday. However, we could decide to water on Thursday and then get 23mm of rain or we could decide not to water and then get no rain at all. The point is, we have to decide on Thursday, but we have to decide based on a forecast for weather that is still four days away.

"At this stage, I still think that we will need to put some water on, primarily because in the last two and a half weeks people have been forecasting rainfall here and they have been wrong."

Festival aggregate winning distances

Ladbrokes: 13-8 under 74 lengths, 13-8 74 to 91 lengths, 7-4 over 91 lengths

William Hill: 11-8 under 77 lengths, 13-8 77 to 94 lengths, 2 over 94 lengths
 
So basically he is going to make a guess on Thursday weither to water again!? If in doubt leave it well alone!
 
If in doubt, pour it on for another two days, so you don't end-up with the Gold Cup being run on Firm ground.
 
Ground round here (1 mile from racecourse) on soft side of good already. 2 very frosty nights; 2 sunny days with strong, cold wind. Rain and milder temperatures forecast from tomorrow.

Water table in Gloucestershire has not dropped much after the flooding. It was very bad in Tewkesbury, but my area and the racecourse had flooding too. I remember reading in the racecard in October that there had been a "12 foot river running down the centre of the course" (and through my house!) and that a day after, thanks to the much-improved drainage, they could have raced again.

Hands up those who remember heavy ground Gold Cups? With the local fire brigade drafted in to drain standing water and the helicopters of the richer owners being used like hairdryers on the take-off and landing sides of the fences. Ah, those were the days.
 
Originally posted by Grasshopper@Mar 4 2008, 09:34 PM
If in doubt, pour it on for another two days, so you don't end-up with the Gold Cup being run on Firm ground.
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And get false ground which can be dangerous and leads to results that are hard to believe.
 
Originally posted by redhead@Mar 4 2008, 04:02 PM

Hands up those who remember heavy ground Gold Cups? With the local fire brigade drafted in to drain standing water and the helicopters of the richer owners being used like hairdryers on the take-off and landing sides of the fences. Ah, those were the days.
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Last one I remember was Ten Up winning in the mid 70s. Ground was very heavy that day. I am sure there were others.
 
Originally posted by Powerscourt@Mar 4 2008, 10:17 PM
Last one I remember was Ten Up winning in the mid 70s. Ground was very heavy that day. I am sure there were others.
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You can't remember Desert Orchid? :eek:
 
Originally posted by Grasshopper@Mar 4 2008, 09:34 PM
If in doubt, pour it on for another two days, so you don't end-up with the Gold Cup being run on Firm ground.
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You on Denman then?! :D

Fwiw, I think the horse is probably better on better ground and doesn't need soft ground - after all he posted a pretty impressive performance in last season's RSA.
 
Originally posted by Galileo@Mar 4 2008, 09:11 PM
And get false ground which can be dangerous and leads to results that are hard to believe.
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You must mean freak results like Cool Dawn winning a Gold Cup on very quick ground, do you?

Sorry, Gal, but I'm quite satisfied that adding more water at this stage will not lead to "false" or "dangerous" ground.

Besides, if the last 10 years has taught us anything, it is the fact that quick ground leads to horses travelling too fast, and is inherently dangerous itself.
 
Originally posted by Shadow Leader@Mar 4 2008, 11:30 PM
You on Denman then?! :D

Fwiw, I think the horse is probably better on better ground and doesn't need soft ground - after all he posted a pretty impressive performance in last season's RSA.
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Not at all, Shads.

I hope that Denman finishes 20L clear of the third, but a respectful 8L behind Kauto Star. :D
 
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