Coolmore

Sheikh said:
That's part of every sport, isn't that a large part of what Cheltenham is about or do I misunderstand your point ?
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That's the worst thing about Cheltenham, imo - these moronic Irish people with their flags and flag waving attitude.
 
I'm reminded however of a comment he made after last years Derby where he patently went out of his way (for what ever reason) to thank the connections for allowing him to run so many horses
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Marks him out as a crawler :)
That's part of every sport, isn't that a large part of what Cheltenham is about or do I misunderstand your point ?
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No it isnt

As regards striking out on his own? why would he?
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Depends how appealing the business side of any operation is to him or whetehr he is content to remain as a horseman. He could reach a point where he feels he has nothing more to prove or achieve at coolmore and building his own empire would appeal. Its all very much down to his personality and ambitions. Perhaps (and topical this...sad to see the remarkable Monica pass away) a parrallel would be Micheal Dickinson
 
Agree

I also like their commitment to middle and staying distance performers. Whether this is purely because of the stock they are breeding or intentional policy, ive no real idea but ultimately it has been a welcome antidote to the obsession with speed. Probably a good knock on benefit to the breed
 
I think the comment regarding “thanking connections for running the horses” were as much as a go at the press/media who at the time was complaining about the number of runners he was having. He was thanking them as he felt it was right to run them as they had all won or run very well in their trials, they were all from different breeders who had bred the horses with the aim of running in the Classic so it would be wrong to not run them in it simply because they were all in the same yard.

Sheikh Mo has the final say on where the Godolphin horses run, Abdullah would not let Channon race Youmzain in Cup races when he wanted to, Stoute had to run Perfect Stride in the Guineas (clearly against his wishes) when the horse was not ready for the race but as the trainer himself admitted “the owner wanted to have a runner in a race like this”…..whats the difference?

The comparison with Man Utd goes both ways…as with that team there are people who want anyone BUT Coolmore. Opposed for the sake of it, open delight when they loose etc.
 
Gobsmacked......:eek:

That's the worst thing about Cheltenham, imo - these moronic Irish people with their flags and flag waving attitude
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Cheltenham is not about the best of the Irish against the best of the U.K !!
 
If you want to get down to specifics I hate Ole Ole and I don't bring a flag to Lansdowne, Croker etc, (although I will wear a jersey) or the races(!!) but I'm thinking the flag waving reference was metaphorical ?
 
Sheik

Thta is at best a sideline isnt it? Perhaps a bit of fun, but not quite as important as lining the pockets...admiring great horses for what they are...and respecting the achievements of connections wherever they are from.
 
Having thought about my previous post again...i may have been a bit rash and wish to retract every word
 
clivex said:
Sheik

Thta is at best a sideline isnt it? Perhaps a bit of fun, but not quite as important as lining the pockets...admiring great horses for what they are...and respecting the achievements of connections wherever they are from.
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As they are, it’s just a bit of fun.

Anyone who was Leopardstown when Denman won or even more so when Best Mate hammered Beef Or Salmon in the Lexus will know more than anything how great horses are appreciated. The reception they recieved would have been similar to Florida Pearl or Istabraq winning.
 
I do not think there is anything wrong with celebrating, whereever you are from and whichever 'side' you are shouting for, as long as that includes the celebration of the horses and the people who worked hard to get them there to win with. I'd much rather have people doing that than looking glum despite the fact their horse has just won a major race.

I too agree with Clivex!
 
I also wanted to say that watching Yeats win at Royal Ascot was great not just because I have always loved him but because the normally quiet crowd were shouting for the three horses spread across the track. More people appeared to be on Coastal Path and Geordieland but once Yeats hit the front all went silent. And then erupted again because even if they were not on him people knew they had witnessed something great and rare. Even if you do not like Coolmore always winning I don't see how people could truly dislike them, the team derive huge pleasure when something wins and are always first to congratulate those who beat them. I was deaf from Pat Keatings shouting and I thought Aidan would break a leg getting through people to get to Yeats!

No flag waving but then Royal Ascot is too stuffy for that kind of showing!
 
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and are always first to congratulate those who beat them
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I think that this is an underrated and significant element of the appeal of horse racing. I well remeber AOB's warm congratulations towards PCH after Authorised's wins. It was sincerely meant.

With so much sport showing an ugly face these days (athletics, football, formula one and so on) sports where certain values are held high and the game itself is seen as more important than the egotism of the personailties involved appeal more and more

Along with test cricket, Racing at the top level enscapsulates this
 
"Along with test cricket,........"

Must be questions about that these days, Clive.

I feel the days when the sportsmanship in cricket was held up as an example to the rest of the sports world have long gone...........sadly!
 
I'm largely with Melendez. Whatever Magniers plans of running horses, if I had a gun to my head i'd say they wouldn't be anymore significant than Aidan's. What intrigues me is how the different partnerships are formed, who hammers all that out? And what role does dear old JP have in Coolmore? I saw someone say somewhere that he has a interest in Coolmore horses at stud, is that true?

It's their business of course, but these side issues all add up and are perhaps one of the reasons the mainstream press portray the outfit as "murky" and "secretive".
 
I think that relative secrecy may well be why there is a less than enthusiastic response to Coolmore wins in some quarters, no matter the respect we all hold them in - esp AO'B.

It's interesting imo that even on this board which has a good many people deeply involved in Irish racing, we don't seem able to get answers to some fairly basic and interesting questions about how they run their affairs. Not that we know that much about some of the other big operations either! - But there is something eternally fascinating about Ballydoyle/Coolmore and the way it's set up
 
Headstrong said:
It's interesting imo that even on this board which has a good many people deeply involved in Irish racing, we don't seem able to get answers to some fairly basic and interesting questions about how they run their affairs. Not that we know that much about some of the other big operations either! - But there is something eternally fascinating about Ballydoyle/Coolmore and the way it's set up
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Such as?
 
For example, how much control AO'B does have regarding training and running plans - fairly fundamental stuff. It's been much discussed in this thread, but all the replies have been surmise and speculation - if anyone does know the answer, they have not said so, as such!

This is pretty well par for the course whenever the topic of Ballydoyle arrangements come up. There is of course no reason why anyone *should* be privy to how to they order their affairs. But those of us who are interested in these things find it mildly frustrating
 
But that is the same for every yard...

Stoute did not want to run his horse in the 2000 Guineas, Channon wanted to run Youmzain in Cup races....questions marks over their yards too?

I would imagine at the start of the season plans are laid out, the breeding side of the operation making it clear what aims/targets are for the season. Clearly as the season progresses and things change amendments to previous targets must be made based on the trainers impressions and thoughts.

Unlike many on here I do not think O'Brien wanted to pull George Washington out of the Classic, Dylan Thomas from the Breeders Cup etc. The exact opposite in fact, as a National Hunt trainer and indeed still with his own horses O'Brien was noted for giving horses hard campaigns, not afraid to test his horses even when conditions are unfavourable etc but with the remarkable knack of keeping them sound and enthusiastic.

Before O'Brien a Coolmore horse would run a few times, with conditions always in their favour and with minimum risk given to the horse losing for fear of its unbeaten record. Now O'Brien runs his top class horses regularly and is not afraid to get them beat as long as it brings them on. Who would ever have thought 5-10 years ago that Coolmore would keep a Irish Derby & Champion Stakes winner in training at 4 and then give him such an arduous campaign as a 4 year old despite a few loses.
 
I agree there is a bit of mystery but would there not always be considering how big the operation is, and how many owners are involved in individual horses? As said here, and as Aidan himself often says to the press, the Boss, is Magnier.

God knows how complicated it is just to sort out arrangements for an average handicapper owned by friends let alone a major player!

It is such a massive responsibility when you are playing with such wonderful horses, and I'm sure everyone at Ballydoyle wants to get it right. I don't thjink anyone there has a final say without having first heard, and reckoned with, what others have to say too.

Magnier does not often talk to the press but lately he has and given the idea that he listens very much to Aidan and all the team.

I like watching the extremely detailed instructions that Aidan gives to each jockey, including hand signals of the horses travelling in the race and the strategy. The message was loud and clear at Epsom which horse was supposed to win the Coronation Cup and those instructions were followed to the hilt too.

I'm reading one of the Vincent books currently and it is even obvious in it that until fairly recently Vincent himself was regularly consulted too.

Can't be that different than Elite for instance which is managed as a big business now with many pulling the strings.

I like the intrigue anyway, I think it adds to the magic of Coolmore/Ballydoyle.
 
Headstrong said:
It's interesting imo that even on this board which has a good many people deeply involved in Irish racing, we don't seem able to get answers to some fairly basic and interesting questions about how they run their affairs.
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Do the same questions not apply to a similar extent about the Godolphin/Darley operation though, Headstrong? Particularly the role of the likes of bin Suroor, Crisford, Ferguson?

To be honest, I think the Coolmore "mystery" is all a bit over-hyped. Of course Magnier consults O'Brien (as well as the likes of Shanahan and Demi O'Byrne) but, but at the end of the day I would guess that the vast majority of decisions are unanimous, rather than a show-down between Magnier and O'Brien.
 
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