Dairy farms
- Thread starter redhead
- Start date
Muttley
At the Start
For Kri:
http://www.soilassociation.org/Whyorganic/Welfareandwildlife/Animalwelfare/tabid/381/Default.aspx
Organic farming is like hunting - there's endless information to support it and as much information debunking it, with welfare issues forming a part of both views.
Personally, I'm pro-organic and anti-hunting ..
http://www.soilassociation.org/Whyorganic/Welfareandwildlife/Animalwelfare/tabid/381/Default.aspx
Organic farming is like hunting - there's endless information to support it and as much information debunking it, with welfare issues forming a part of both views.
Personally, I'm pro-organic and anti-hunting ..
Thanks, Muttley. I'd take a bit of umbrage (were I a non-organic farmer) with the phrase that organic producers "aim to prevent disease" since I'm sure no farm "aims" to not do so! That's my, er, beef about the ringwormy cattle - they couldn't be treated with medicines until someone had first given them a spray of dandelion-and-cat pee or whatever the "complementary" remedy was. It didn't work and the animals were in considerable distress until the vet was finally called - by then, many had rubbed the affected areas raw and a much longer period of pharmaceutical treatment was required.
I would never want to see a return to the promiscuous use of 'cides' - pesti/fungi/insecti - as occurred with health-damaging results in the 1950s, but as far as farming animals is concerned, I do believe that farmers want to produce the healthiest possible, since that makes economic sense. I want an ailing animal to be treated with the most effective system, one which clears up its problem quickly and humanely. I don't care what it is. If it's dandelion-and-cat pee, then fine. If it's a shot of antibiotics, also fine. I think that complementary therapies have been demonstrated to be effective for certain conditions, but if one involves prolonging the distress of an animal in order to boast that it wasn't treated with a pharmaceutical medicine, then I see nothing to be proud of.
I would never want to see a return to the promiscuous use of 'cides' - pesti/fungi/insecti - as occurred with health-damaging results in the 1950s, but as far as farming animals is concerned, I do believe that farmers want to produce the healthiest possible, since that makes economic sense. I want an ailing animal to be treated with the most effective system, one which clears up its problem quickly and humanely. I don't care what it is. If it's dandelion-and-cat pee, then fine. If it's a shot of antibiotics, also fine. I think that complementary therapies have been demonstrated to be effective for certain conditions, but if one involves prolonging the distress of an animal in order to boast that it wasn't treated with a pharmaceutical medicine, then I see nothing to be proud of.
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Ballydoyle
At the Start
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2005
- Messages
- 596
Early into my life working for a high class supermarket, I went along to their personal farm which has its own diary farm.
I admit to being ignorant of most things diary/country but the general consenus amongst us who visited was that we all want to be reborn as a cow on that farm!
It had just installed one of the new "carousel" milkers, the cows were split into heirarcy and even if they were in most of the day they had the opportunity to go out daily.
It was amazing to see it and it sounds a bit like the plans being made for this "super farm" but if its run as ethically as possible, with high standards of hygenine and welfare and it employs locals to run it then whats the big deal? Change isnt always good but sometimes you have to change to keep alive and that sounds what the proposal is doing.
I admit to being ignorant of most things diary/country but the general consenus amongst us who visited was that we all want to be reborn as a cow on that farm!
It had just installed one of the new "carousel" milkers, the cows were split into heirarcy and even if they were in most of the day they had the opportunity to go out daily.
It was amazing to see it and it sounds a bit like the plans being made for this "super farm" but if its run as ethically as possible, with high standards of hygenine and welfare and it employs locals to run it then whats the big deal? Change isnt always good but sometimes you have to change to keep alive and that sounds what the proposal is doing.
It's a pity organic farming has to be an all or nothing approach - especially as so many 'organic' farmers simply bend the rules to suit themselves. I have one of the SW's most prominent organic farmers right next door to me - well, I did, as he's got fed up with the job now and most of his land has come out of organic status. He won a lot of awards a few years back and picked up a huge raft of subsidies etc. Funny how, now they've gone, he's nor so keen .......
Nice website, Mutley - but do you know the costs involved in becoming a Soil Association member ? I see they don't advertise those prominently on the website, if at all (I couldn't see them). I can tell you it is a considerable amount to set up and then a hefty annual sub. I'm not anti, I just think it's lost the initial good aims and become just another bureaucratic entity filling its own coffers first. And that's firsthand information from the second farm within three miles from here that's come out of the SA in the last two years.
Sorry my prognosis is bleak, Grey but until you're in the middle of the job, it's difficult to realise just how little control you have over this way of life!! Weather, disease and bureacracy are difficult bedfellows at times !!
Of course, there are fantastic pluses - being outdoors, lovely scenery, the lift of producing good stock. Looking at your forage shed when it's full with decent fodder and growing barley and wheat for the past couple of years has really boosted me as we now mill and mix our own feed for our cattle, with just some added protein and that's cool! Selling stock is also very nice and we hope to sell a couple of bulls at Chelford next month! They've been pre movement tested and moved off holding so at least we know we're OK with them BUT the whole herd test is next week and we get shut down,we can't sell anything until we go clear and they all still have to be fed and housed.
Imagine being in the same situation in your business. Oh sorry, Mr Grey - I see one of your employees has tested positive for TB. Funny how well she looks and is perfectly normal but never mind, once she's dead we'll take a look at her lungs but for the next 60 days, you can't sell anything or go anywhere. And if the results come back clear and we can't culture the virus, no matter - you're still shut down, even though everyone else in your company has tested negative. Sorry ? She's your wife and you're very fond of her ? Tough sh*t Mr Grey, dem's de rules....
Nice website, Mutley - but do you know the costs involved in becoming a Soil Association member ? I see they don't advertise those prominently on the website, if at all (I couldn't see them). I can tell you it is a considerable amount to set up and then a hefty annual sub. I'm not anti, I just think it's lost the initial good aims and become just another bureaucratic entity filling its own coffers first. And that's firsthand information from the second farm within three miles from here that's come out of the SA in the last two years.
Sorry my prognosis is bleak, Grey but until you're in the middle of the job, it's difficult to realise just how little control you have over this way of life!! Weather, disease and bureacracy are difficult bedfellows at times !!
Of course, there are fantastic pluses - being outdoors, lovely scenery, the lift of producing good stock. Looking at your forage shed when it's full with decent fodder and growing barley and wheat for the past couple of years has really boosted me as we now mill and mix our own feed for our cattle, with just some added protein and that's cool! Selling stock is also very nice and we hope to sell a couple of bulls at Chelford next month! They've been pre movement tested and moved off holding so at least we know we're OK with them BUT the whole herd test is next week and we get shut down,we can't sell anything until we go clear and they all still have to be fed and housed.
Imagine being in the same situation in your business. Oh sorry, Mr Grey - I see one of your employees has tested positive for TB. Funny how well she looks and is perfectly normal but never mind, once she's dead we'll take a look at her lungs but for the next 60 days, you can't sell anything or go anywhere. And if the results come back clear and we can't culture the virus, no matter - you're still shut down, even though everyone else in your company has tested negative. Sorry ? She's your wife and you're very fond of her ? Tough sh*t Mr Grey, dem's de rules....
The TB is a scourge. I thought the guy on Countryfile got across quite well the other week how nerve-wracking are the days leading up to the test. An invisible threat with terrible consequences, and no way of being sure how the test will go.
I feel for Adam Henson - he's done an awful lot to promote awareness about the problems faced and counters the anti-farming John Craven - wish he'd drop off the programme!
The proposed badger cull has been put on hold yet again until May, which is bad news for a lot of folk down here in the SW. I just wish all the effort and energy on both sides (ie the pro and anti culling groups) would be directed to funding the sett tests to see if a sett is healthy or not. It's so fecking simple it appals me it's not being done. If the sett's infected, cull the inhabitants. If it isn't, leave well alone! But there.... at least my five young bulls tested clear on their pre movement tests, they're now officially off our holding and two of them will be on their way to the Sales next month!
The proposed badger cull has been put on hold yet again until May, which is bad news for a lot of folk down here in the SW. I just wish all the effort and energy on both sides (ie the pro and anti culling groups) would be directed to funding the sett tests to see if a sett is healthy or not. It's so fecking simple it appals me it's not being done. If the sett's infected, cull the inhabitants. If it isn't, leave well alone! But there.... at least my five young bulls tested clear on their pre movement tests, they're now officially off our holding and two of them will be on their way to the Sales next month!