Dangerous Dogs Act

Irish Stamp

Irish Stamp

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Bringing this up in light of the recent incidents of deaths being caused by certain breeds of dogs not covered under the above act, in particular the case on monday which happened not far from me.

A few questions have been raised in regard to dog ownership and I was wondering what other forumites thought.

1. Should dog owners need to be licensed?

2. Should families with young children (those under 10 say) be banned from owning dogs?

I know the dog in the case above was owned by her uncle but if dogs weren't allowed near young children surely this would not have happened?
 
pit bulls should be exterminated on the spot where identified

There is no need at all for this mutant breed
 
Martin, in answer to your points -

1) not so sure it serves much of a purpose tbh

2) most definite no! The vast majority of dogs are fine with children and this couldn't possibly be policed!

I've said it before and I'll say it again (although I don't know all the specifics of this case I admit) the problem does not lie with "dangerous" dogs, it lies with the owners who tend to aggravate, encourage or even train their dogs to be aggressive. If a dog is a nervous type that tends to aggression then a responsible owner would know this and keep it away from children as well as exercise caution when strangers are around the animal or when the animal is in a strange situation.

Clivex - I can't agree with you in the slightest. I have had close contact with a few pitbulls who were delightful animals. The ones that are dangerous have ignorant owners who train them to aggression.
 
The problem lies with the owners, not the dog. I haven't seen the news so I don't know if the breed of dog in Mondays attack has been formally identified but I suspect it's probably just a Staffy cross or American Bulldog cross, not a Pit Bull Terrier. It could just as easily have been a Poodle or a Labrador. Any dog has the potential to kill a child if it is not brought up correctly.

Licensing dog owners isn't the answer. People need educating on how to be a good dog owner but there will always be the morons who think they look tough with their badly bred, badly behaved 'macho' dog.

As for families with young children being banned from having dogs, that's ridiculous! I have three dogs, one is a Springer Spaniel and two crossbreeds of completely unknown heritage. If anyone asks me what breeds they are I say "your guess is as good as mine" :lol: Each went to puppy training classes, then obedience lessons and my Springer did a bit of gun dog training. They can be naughty little gits at times but they have basic training and I can taken them anywhere knowing they'll behave. I would not however leave them unattended in a room with my children. Accidents can so easily happen. I know if one of the girls tripped and accidently landed on a dog they might get snapped at. One dog in particularly can be a bit funny if she gets woken up. One of my dogs isn't keen on other children and she'll growl if she sees them, so I make sure she doesn't get into a situation that she feels uncomfortable with. On the whole my dogs are brilliant around my children but if anything happened it'd be my responsibility. My dogs and my children love each other but as with any pet they need supervision. Plenty of my friends have dogs and children with no problems whatsoever.

My lot saying "cheese"
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A few years old now, but Molly cuddling her best friend Ella:
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We used to have a dog licensing scheme . In the 1980s there was a big push for dog registration by microchip. I think that it would be a good idea - the DDA is a ridiculous piece of kneejerk legislation. It deals with breeds and not with how a dog is trained which is the real problem .
 
The silly thing about the DDA is that given the description of a 'Pit Bull type' dog, it may as well be describing a Labrador. Almost any breed of dog could be considered a 'Pit Bull type'.
 
Exactly - and how many Staffys get confused as Pit Bulls? In fact the two Pit Bulls my friend had both looked more like Staffys. They were both soppy as hell too.
 
Employees of the Saudi Oil Co. (Aramco), when I worked there, could join a branch of the American Kennel Club, and all dogs which you didn't want shot by the police had to be registered there and wear a collar with an annually-renewable disc. An out-of-date disc didn't mean immediate shooting in the street, but if the owner could be identified, they were asked to explain why their dog was running loose and last known to be owned by them.

When I was a kid and living in Northern Rhodesia (now Zambia), all of the British-governed African countries insisted on dog registration in a similar manner, because of ensuring they were all vaccinated against rabies. Again, an annually-renewable collar disc, proving ownership.

Thus, I've been used to animals being trackable. I am in favour of all dog owners and cat owners, too, registering their animals so that they can be tracked annually. You would have to inform your vet of the animal's demise and the circumstances - especially with animals travelling abroad now, and animal smuggling a big deal, one is never sure what nasty diseases can be picked up or brought in. It should also make for a lot more feeling of responsibility for the animal.

I'm in favour of kids being round dogs from the earliest possible age, but under control (the kids) so that they learn how to treat them properly from early days, and don't develop a fear which leads to aggression towards the dog. Kids should never be allowed to smack puppies or dogs, or tease them. If a sweet old dog gets his tail twisted and gnashes the hand that tormented him, it's the darn parents' fault if they haven't told their kid how to behave around animals. When I hear of dogs being put down because they've just nipped a kid, I'm angry, because it's just bad management. We had dogs and cats and I was never even snarled at or scratched once, and neither were my many pet-owning pals.

What should be absolutely impossible is for any of the dogs which come under the DDA to belong in homes where there are children. The two Rottweilers who were kept - it seems - in semi-chained conditions to guard a pub and killed the little kid who entered their territory were only doing what they thought they were supposed to do, unless the kid had tormented them first. It's wicked to keep dogs unexercised, without proper interaction with people, and think you've got a 'hard dog'. No, you've just potentially got a vicious one. Professional 'attack' dogs - army, police, and security - are not mad brutes restrained only by the strength of their choke chains. You know that when you see them all behaving so nicely during shows, going through agility displays. They don't tank off the moment their collar's loosed, ripping the crowd to shreds. Everything is in interacting, handling, and choosing appropriately.
 
Majority of the problem comes with those whom handle the dog from a young age.

I volunteer at an animal shelter near me, and I can tell you the way some people treat those animals that get "dumped" on our site, is a pure disgrace and they should be locked up for life.

Last year an emaciated dog (we still have no clue what breed he was) was dumped on to our shelter's doorsteps. He had many wounds, was covered from head to tail in ticks, had blisters on his paws, and eyes infected with a conjunctivitis like disease. The next night he was humanely destroyed, as he was having ceasures.
We did an autopsy on the dog, to find he not only had an inoperable cancer on his stomach, but arthritis had crippled his legs, he was also thoroughly malnourished and partly brain dead. It would have been cruel otherwise to have kept this dog, whom was very friendly despite his pain, alive.

As for dogs, no Martin they shouldn't be banned. I still believe they are, personally, the best type of pet you can have when growing up as a child.
I have had birds (breed them), cats, rabbits, guinea pigs, ferrets, fish, hermit crabs, etc. But honestly nothing beats a dog when it comes to having a pet.
Dogs as pets teach all family members about responsibility, as you have to groom them, feed them, exercise them daily, and to the way you interact with them etc.
All the others do teach responsibility, but dogs require that extra bit to get them over the line.
Unlike the others, you just can't leave a dog to its own accord, it requires constant attention, otherwise it will ruin and destroy everything in sight.

There are many breeds of dogs, asides from the bull terrier and chow varieties which have fantastic reputations, namely the Pugs, Golden Retrievers and Cavalier King Charles Spaniel. I own the latter, along with a labrador, and can tell you that our Spaniel is very trusting. Our neighbours always come around and take her out to play and walk. And only this week we had a foreigner in our house. She had never met him, but was in the guest room asleep with him from the night she met him. He was not keen on dogs, actually he was scared to death of them. Our dog changed that, two days later she was on his lap asleep. Or when he went up to his bed, he would call her name, and she'd be up there with him.
 
Barney is great around all children and spent his 3 days in Brixham over the New Year entertaining both the adults and the kids in the hotel. Children absolutely adore him. He has never even growled at a child and just loves the attention. I would be more than happy to have him on a centralised dog register.

I agree that I would be amazed if many dogs are actually born violent although I assume there are incidents where some dogs, despite the owners best efforts have aggressive tendencies and could be a danger around children and adults.

A great excuse to show you photos of my gorgeous boy.

Barney and his Mum at Berry Head in the sunshine on New Years Day 2007!
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As I see it, very few dogs will be in anyway dangerous if they are properly handled. Some dogs are potentially dangerous if not properly handled. Since nobody can guarantee how well an owner will handle a dog (including the owner), I see no problem in putting severe restrictions on the ownership of dogs that can be identified as potentially dangerous.
 
It should probably be remembered that the breed involved in the attack was prohibited, and that the problem was a failure to effectively enforce the law - despite the local council receiving complaints about the animal.
 
And 3 warnings to the owner ...why wasn't it taken away if it was illegal to own it? its closing the door after the horse as bolted ..surely.

Have you ever noticed somebody as got to become a martyr in most cases before either the goverment or local authorities then act...

And in this case that poor little girl as lost her life..........
 
I do agree with nearly all on here that the vast majority of dogs are harmless and in the main like with humans it's down to characterstics.

Though in answer to Merlin's question above because our (St. Helens) councillors are incompetent.
 
My Grandfather who lived in a pub had a Jack Russell called Bill, that I will never forget. He was not bred to be fierce or to fight, but for some reason he just disliked children - and a few grown ups. My Grandparents had had him since he was a puppy, and had owned dogs before. He was a very loving dog BUT just took a dislike to some people, especially little people. They wouldn't consider on having him put down - as they were old fashioned and knew that Bill's brother also had a snappy tendency so assumed it was in his genes. Bill (as far as I recall) lived to a ripe old age, and loved my Grandad to bits. I just think that there must be dogs that are born a bit grumpy and not all owners are to blame.

In this day and age though with the tendency for yobs to try and look good with a dog that growls and snaps - having been taught to fight, that's a completely different situation. There was no yob culture in our village 30 years ago - it was just a grumpy dog. A bit like his owner now I think of it! :blink:

It may be difficult to put a ban on breeding a certain type of dog, as people will always found a way round it. It's awful to think that dogs are put down because they are trained by their owner to fight. These dogs then kill or maim a human or another animal when it's not really their fault. Their instinct and training tells them to kill. Awful state of affairs and I am afraid although these dogs have to be destroyed, I feel the owners of these "killer" dogs should be banned from ever owning any animal. How to stop them breeding and training these dogs in the first place, is a completely different matter and one I don't have any idea of how the authorities could resolve .
 
Great pictures of the boyo, Kathy!

(I have secret plans to kidnap him and Mike George's (IDLE TALK) 'Charlie' - a smooth-haired Jackie with permanent scars on the dome of his head, where his MOTHER gnashed him as a puppy! They shall be mine, they shall be mine... )
 
I never thought I would become as attached to a dog as much as I have with Barney! I am sure it must be good for your mental health owning a well behaved dog. I have to admit if ever I am feeling a little low, he is guaranteed to do something stupid that will make me smile. :D

In the hotel this weekend, one particularly charming little girl came running over screaming "doggie, doggie", she then stopped dead in her tracks and said, "is it ok for me to stroke him?" which I thought was very well mannered and well taught by her parents. IF a dog is a little unsure, especially when a child comes running over screaming with it's hand outstreched, it could of course worry some dogs causing it to growl - or worse. A child may take that as it about to bite, which in some cases a frightened dog might well do. I always reassure parents if their kids are interested that Barney it is ok for them to stroke him gently. With all these horror stories about dogs on the news at the moment, it is important to reassure parents (who may not have dogs at home) that not every dog is about to attack their little boy or girl.

A few months back whilst we were in Brighton a small black child (toddler) asked to stroke Barney, who lapped up the attention. The mother thanked me afterwards as their child (adopted) had been bitten by a dog before and was only just getting his confidence back as they wanted to buy a dog but had decided not too until their son was confident again. We ended up with them for about 15 mins and Barney had his photo taken with them. A lovely family.

Dog owners have a responsibility both to the dog and to the general public and with the right treatment and training, they make the most wonderful pets for all age groups BUT they have to be treated with kindness and respect. You certainly get out of them what you put in. That can unfortunately work both ways.
 
Having read more into this case it seems there are a lot of questions to answer - for starters, what in the name of God was a five year old girl doing alone in a room with a dog with a known tendency to violence at 4.30am? What was the girl doing anywhere near it in the first place - the family must have known the animal had already attracted several complaints about its agression in the first place.
 
I'm still finding it hard to believe this was a Pit Bull Terrier. Many many Staffy crosses look similar to a Pit Bull when infact they most definitely are not. I've seen Staffs crossed with Labradors that look similar to Pit Bulls. There are going to be a lot of worried dog owners up and down the country now who will fear being accussed of owning a Pit Bull just because their mongrel happens to look similar.
 
I agree totally with the "its the owner and not the dog" regardless of breed. I only have two now since Joker went, but Huskies are really really not the easiest of dogs to cope with I now have a huskie that thinks its a labrador and a Tiger (greyhound) that came from the racetrack and is the most laid back dog with kids that I've met. I have to say though he was a bit overwhelmed to start with but both my kids 4 and 5 were sat down and told in no uncertain terms about being calm and quiet around him for a few weeks, you should see them all now its bedlam but in a nice way, kids, dogs, fluffy toys getting flung around, we now have two doggies that are completely at home with chaos, noise and yes occasional falling children on them. (Well Tiger isnt exactly small) :o
 
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