Roddy Owen
At the Start
Surprised to see the Mullins horses in the catalogue,in fact some very interesting horses altogether in the sale.
DBS sale,W Mullins
- Thread starter Roddy Owen
- Start date
Irish Stamp
Forum Moderator
Just looking over the catalogue for the Hunter Chase meeting sale Roddy.
Hoping that Fiddlededee goes to a good owner and trainer as she looked a real star in the making when winning at Tipperary last week and was cruising when tipping up in the Mares Final last month. Whoever was chalking up 14/1 about her for last weeks race must have been on drugs.
Nenuphar Collonges and Fix The Rib are amongst the other's entered up.
Hoping that Fiddlededee goes to a good owner and trainer as she looked a real star in the making when winning at Tipperary last week and was cruising when tipping up in the Mares Final last month. Whoever was chalking up 14/1 about her for last weeks race must have been on drugs.
Nenuphar Collonges and Fix The Rib are amongst the other's entered up.
chroniclandlord
Senior Jockey
Indeed, three very decent horses from Clonsutton entered, especially Quiscover Fontaine.
Roddy Owen
At the Start
What would prompt this in your view?
Irish Stamp
Forum Moderator
He offloads the bumper horses each year Roddy - he's due for a new intake of Novice Hurdlers/Ex-AQPS flat horses in June/July time so I guess he's making room for those.
Merry In Moscow impressed me on his bumper debut and ran behind one of Paul Nolan's (apparently the best he's had for a while) the other day so he might prove a bargain if going for the right price.
Merry In Moscow impressed me on his bumper debut and ran behind one of Paul Nolan's (apparently the best he's had for a while) the other day so he might prove a bargain if going for the right price.
Roddy Owen
At the Start
JP seems to be buying his bumpers, ready to go hurdling ,from Rebecca Curtis now.Another last week after he won at Ffos Las.. The economic conditions in Ireland having any effect then on the likes of Mullins ?
Irish Stamp
Forum Moderator
Mullins is still buying Roddy and I can't recall him ever training for McManus so I guess the only issues are with Mullins owners who maybe don't want the poorly handicapped horses anymore.
Everyone knows the score with the Curtis yard though and how it works - incidentally they've just bought another two at the Cheltenham Sales today - Sir Cool (Kempton bumper placed) and Old Wigmore (Kilmallock Maiden winner). The sale's still ongoing so could be more to come.
Everyone knows the score with the Curtis yard though and how it works - incidentally they've just bought another two at the Cheltenham Sales today - Sir Cool (Kempton bumper placed) and Old Wigmore (Kilmallock Maiden winner). The sale's still ongoing so could be more to come.
Irish Stamp
Forum Moderator
Fiddlededee sold to Jonjo O'Neill (no doubt JP McManus) for £125,000. 
I'd imagine the thought with Quiscover is that he's more likely to do well in UK than Ireland, given his high rating and possibly limited opportunities. The owners also introduced a newcomer in the Land Rover and they may want to go back and buy a young horse in the Land Rover sale again. Quiscover should get some decent money.
Bar the Bull
At the Start
Mullins trains Kempes for McManus
Kempes now running in JP colours, but cant think of many after that
Based on APs advice i'm sure, he rode him and rides alot for her, i remember reading a few months back after JP bought Made in Time, that he said he did so after AP spoke very highly of him after winning on debut
Irish Stamp
Forum Moderator
Forgot about Kempes
Bar the Bull
At the Start
Don't forget Kempes.
chroniclandlord
Senior Jockey
Quiscover Fontaine and Lilywhitedancer were withdrawn from the sale, Palace Merano was sold for 18k.
Phillip Hobbs gave the top price of 310k for Go All The Way who was second in a Punchestown bumper on his only start.
The MCR Hurdle winner Puyol owned by the late John Mulhern was sold for 80k.
Phillip Hobbs gave the top price of 310k for Go All The Way who was second in a Punchestown bumper on his only start.
The MCR Hurdle winner Puyol owned by the late John Mulhern was sold for 80k.
Roddy Owen
At the Start
Highest priced NH Horse for 10th consecutive year at Spring HIT Sales
Trade picked up on the second day of the Spring HIT Sales when DBS sold the highest priced National Hunt Horse for the tenth consecutive year and 238 horses sold for a total of £3,951,500 at an average of £16,449, an increase of 15% from last year. The sale also posted a median of £7,900, which was an increase of 13% from 2009.
Go All The Way was second in a competitive Bumper on his debut at the Punchestown Festival in April and the son of Milan was always thought to be popular before he came under the hammer and sold for £310,000 to trainer Philip Hobbs, buying for Sizing Europe's owner Alan Potts.
The five-year-old was trained by John Kiely for Brian Gleeson's wife Claire and Anthony Bromley kicked off the bidding at £100,000 before George Stanners joined in £10,000 later on behalf of a telephone client but the pair soon dropped out as the final exchanges were fought out by Hobbs, speaking to Potts by phone, and the eventual underbidder Tom Malone.
‘He was unlucky not to win his bumper and will hopefully go on to better things. Alan had a horse (Cavite Beta) who ran in the same race when Katie Walsh lost her irons so he knew the form,’ said Hobbs. ‘He's a lovely strong horse and I haven't thought about what route we'll take with him. We'll probably stay over hurdles but he's still a maiden so could try and win a bumper.’
Go All The Way sold to Philip Hobbs for £310,000
Eddie Hales’ Drommona House Stables offered two sons of Black Sam Bellamy who had some smart Bumper form including Samain, who sold to Mags O’Toole for £165,000 with Gerry Hogan playing the role of underbidder. The four year old German bred was a close second on his debut at Fairyhouse and came from the same consignment as Spanish Treasure, who was a winner on his debut at the Punchestown Festival and sold to Aiden Murphy, acting for owner Martin Tedham and trainer Andy Turnell, for £105,000.
Champion Court formed part of the Supplementary Catalogue after winning his Bumper at Kilbeggan and was another to sell for six figures when knocked down to Gerry Hogan for £130,000. The five year old son of Court Cave was offered by Stonefield and has been bought for an existing client.
Morgan’s Bay was always likely to be popular after finishing a close second in a competitive Bumper at Aintree on his racecourse debut and he did not disappoint when selling to John Edwards for £100,000. The five year old son of Karinga Bay is out of a half sister to the high class Dawson City and is sure to have an exciting future over hurdles whilst Mediolanum, who also formed part of the Supplementary Catalogue, sold to Gearoid Costelloe for £100,000. The son of Milan is out of a half sister to the Grade 2 winning Cane Brake and was the impressive winner of a Bumper at Killarney on his racecourse debut, prompting bids from Aidan Murphy and others before the hammer came down in favour of the Irish born trainer and his partner, Rebecca Curtis.
Mediolanum sold by Camas Park Stud to Gearoid Costelloe for £100,000
Tim Vaughan was busy on both days of the sale and his spending was topped by Ballyrock, who cost the Welsh handler £85,000. The four year old son of Milan is a half brother to the Grade 2 winning Telenor and was the impressive ten length winner of a Point to Point at Sligo since publication of the catalogue.
The late John Mulhern was responsible for Puyol, who sold to Bobby O’Ryan for £80,000. He won the Grade 2 MCR Hurdle at Leopardstown for his former trainer and will now embark on a Novice Chase campaign with Lisa Williamson and run in the same colours carried to success by Amberleigh House in the Aintree Grand National.
Andrew Parker had to go to £75,000 to secure Rudemeister, who won a Maiden Point to Point at Necarne by six lengths. The four year old was a close third on his debut at Dromahane and is sure to have an exciting future under NH rules.
Following the conclusion of the sale, DBS Managaing Director Henru Beeby commented:
‘The world’s highest priced National Hunt horse for the 10th successive year is a fitting epitaph to the 2010 DBS Spring HIT Sales and confirms the sale’s status as the premier National Hunt Sale of the year.
A top price of £310,000 graphically illustrates the enduring appeal of this sale and the consistently high class service we continue to provide year after year to the National Hunt fraternity. A rise in turnover, average and median is gratifying although we naturally take the point that the market is more selective than it was three or four years ago. That is reflected in the slight fall in clearance rate but it is fair to say that there has never been a better time to buy as the market is providing some tremendous value and real opportunities.
The buyers list has read like a Who’s Who of the National Hunt fraternity over the two days and we wish every one of them all the best with their latest DBS purchase whilst thanking our loyal vendors for their ongoing support. I must make mention again of the Million In Mind draft which we are privileged to sell each year. By their own lofty standards this may not have been a vintage sale for them but their draft still commanded huge interest and is a highlight of each DBS year.
We have an excellent catalogue of NH Stores on Wednesday and Thursday next week and look forward to welcoming another large crowd to the DBS Sales Complex in their quest for the next top class jumper.’
Comparative Figures
Offered Sold Aggregate (£) Average (£) Median (£)
2009 362 271 3,882,850 14,327 7,000
2010 351 238 (68%) 3,951,500 (+2%) 16,449 (+15%) 7,900 (+13%)
Trade picked up on the second day of the Spring HIT Sales when DBS sold the highest priced National Hunt Horse for the tenth consecutive year and 238 horses sold for a total of £3,951,500 at an average of £16,449, an increase of 15% from last year. The sale also posted a median of £7,900, which was an increase of 13% from 2009.
Go All The Way was second in a competitive Bumper on his debut at the Punchestown Festival in April and the son of Milan was always thought to be popular before he came under the hammer and sold for £310,000 to trainer Philip Hobbs, buying for Sizing Europe's owner Alan Potts.
The five-year-old was trained by John Kiely for Brian Gleeson's wife Claire and Anthony Bromley kicked off the bidding at £100,000 before George Stanners joined in £10,000 later on behalf of a telephone client but the pair soon dropped out as the final exchanges were fought out by Hobbs, speaking to Potts by phone, and the eventual underbidder Tom Malone.
‘He was unlucky not to win his bumper and will hopefully go on to better things. Alan had a horse (Cavite Beta) who ran in the same race when Katie Walsh lost her irons so he knew the form,’ said Hobbs. ‘He's a lovely strong horse and I haven't thought about what route we'll take with him. We'll probably stay over hurdles but he's still a maiden so could try and win a bumper.’
Go All The Way sold to Philip Hobbs for £310,000
Eddie Hales’ Drommona House Stables offered two sons of Black Sam Bellamy who had some smart Bumper form including Samain, who sold to Mags O’Toole for £165,000 with Gerry Hogan playing the role of underbidder. The four year old German bred was a close second on his debut at Fairyhouse and came from the same consignment as Spanish Treasure, who was a winner on his debut at the Punchestown Festival and sold to Aiden Murphy, acting for owner Martin Tedham and trainer Andy Turnell, for £105,000.
Champion Court formed part of the Supplementary Catalogue after winning his Bumper at Kilbeggan and was another to sell for six figures when knocked down to Gerry Hogan for £130,000. The five year old son of Court Cave was offered by Stonefield and has been bought for an existing client.
Morgan’s Bay was always likely to be popular after finishing a close second in a competitive Bumper at Aintree on his racecourse debut and he did not disappoint when selling to John Edwards for £100,000. The five year old son of Karinga Bay is out of a half sister to the high class Dawson City and is sure to have an exciting future over hurdles whilst Mediolanum, who also formed part of the Supplementary Catalogue, sold to Gearoid Costelloe for £100,000. The son of Milan is out of a half sister to the Grade 2 winning Cane Brake and was the impressive winner of a Bumper at Killarney on his racecourse debut, prompting bids from Aidan Murphy and others before the hammer came down in favour of the Irish born trainer and his partner, Rebecca Curtis.
Mediolanum sold by Camas Park Stud to Gearoid Costelloe for £100,000
Tim Vaughan was busy on both days of the sale and his spending was topped by Ballyrock, who cost the Welsh handler £85,000. The four year old son of Milan is a half brother to the Grade 2 winning Telenor and was the impressive ten length winner of a Point to Point at Sligo since publication of the catalogue.
The late John Mulhern was responsible for Puyol, who sold to Bobby O’Ryan for £80,000. He won the Grade 2 MCR Hurdle at Leopardstown for his former trainer and will now embark on a Novice Chase campaign with Lisa Williamson and run in the same colours carried to success by Amberleigh House in the Aintree Grand National.
Andrew Parker had to go to £75,000 to secure Rudemeister, who won a Maiden Point to Point at Necarne by six lengths. The four year old was a close third on his debut at Dromahane and is sure to have an exciting future under NH rules.
Following the conclusion of the sale, DBS Managaing Director Henru Beeby commented:
‘The world’s highest priced National Hunt horse for the 10th successive year is a fitting epitaph to the 2010 DBS Spring HIT Sales and confirms the sale’s status as the premier National Hunt Sale of the year.
A top price of £310,000 graphically illustrates the enduring appeal of this sale and the consistently high class service we continue to provide year after year to the National Hunt fraternity. A rise in turnover, average and median is gratifying although we naturally take the point that the market is more selective than it was three or four years ago. That is reflected in the slight fall in clearance rate but it is fair to say that there has never been a better time to buy as the market is providing some tremendous value and real opportunities.
The buyers list has read like a Who’s Who of the National Hunt fraternity over the two days and we wish every one of them all the best with their latest DBS purchase whilst thanking our loyal vendors for their ongoing support. I must make mention again of the Million In Mind draft which we are privileged to sell each year. By their own lofty standards this may not have been a vintage sale for them but their draft still commanded huge interest and is a highlight of each DBS year.
We have an excellent catalogue of NH Stores on Wednesday and Thursday next week and look forward to welcoming another large crowd to the DBS Sales Complex in their quest for the next top class jumper.’
Comparative Figures
Offered Sold Aggregate (£) Average (£) Median (£)
2009 362 271 3,882,850 14,327 7,000
2010 351 238 (68%) 3,951,500 (+2%) 16,449 (+15%) 7,900 (+13%)
It seems remarkable to see horses that have not won even a bumper fetching six figures.
On the other hand there could already be a good £50k of purchase money and training fees already invested in them (say £25k to purchase as a 3yo plus 18 months pre-training and training fees). So £100k would be roughly equivalent to the cost of getting two horses with reasonable potential to the track, but it's less than 50/50 that either of them will be any good, and then have the durability and luck needed for a good career.
Taken from that perspective these prices (apart from the sales topper) are not quite so boggling. To have a young horse that's already been to the track and shown some talent already puts you in a better position, in my opinion, than somebody with £100k to spend on two untried horses.
That said, early promise in bumpers or points is no guarantee of further success, far from it.
On the other hand there could already be a good £50k of purchase money and training fees already invested in them (say £25k to purchase as a 3yo plus 18 months pre-training and training fees). So £100k would be roughly equivalent to the cost of getting two horses with reasonable potential to the track, but it's less than 50/50 that either of them will be any good, and then have the durability and luck needed for a good career.
Taken from that perspective these prices (apart from the sales topper) are not quite so boggling. To have a young horse that's already been to the track and shown some talent already puts you in a better position, in my opinion, than somebody with £100k to spend on two untried horses.
That said, early promise in bumpers or points is no guarantee of further success, far from it.
Absolutely - some stunning Bumper winners have been flat as pancakes once faced with the need to clear some obstacles on their way to the post! Actually, in all honesty, is there much point to them, per se? I know they're introductions to the racecourse an' all that, but they don't teach the horse about what's coming next. If (I hear a sharp intake of breath as Shadow Leader loads her AK-47) we kicked them off early, like the French, we'd have them out and showing their skills right away. One should be able to judge well enough at home if a horse is jumping soundly, so why bother with putting it round a course, on flat ground, at all?
(This isn't an argument - it's just asking if much purpose is really served by this? It's a question newbie racegoers sometimes ask, as they're very surprised as to why what are NH meetings contain 'Flat races'! As was I, first time I saw them.)
(This isn't an argument - it's just asking if much purpose is really served by this? It's a question newbie racegoers sometimes ask, as they're very surprised as to why what are NH meetings contain 'Flat races'! As was I, first time I saw them.)
I presume the big advantage to bumpers is that a horse can have an introduction to the sights, sounds and distractions of the racecourse and running in close proximity to other horses without having to also cope with obstacles.
Well, that's what I thought, too, but we don't have an equivalent in showjumping or eventing, which are both very crowd intensive - the obstacles are the event, and jumping them is the object of the horse's career. We expect Flat horses to go straight into their stalls, behave, and jump out and do a decent first-time job, so why not the same demand from NH horses? But I take the point you make about not having to cope with obstacles when in close proximity to others - that's probably the reason. In showjumping/eventing, they're going solo, so not distracted by different take-off points by others. I thank you!
Bumpers have a tradition in Ireland as a shop window. They allow a seller to show what ability it has, similar to the breeze ups on the flat, without taking the risk of it jumping poorly first time out over hurdles through pure greenness rather than lack of ability to jump. It became less important when the Celtic Tiger was around as fewer bumper horses were sold but now that we are heading back to the good old days when all our decent bumper horses were sold to England, I think you will find more and moe heading across the pond. If you have a nice bumper horse, you'd have to think of selling when the basic price appears to be £100k, with a nice one getting £150k+, and it's sterling too so you can add 15% for those in euro land.
What surprises me is that very few of Kielys go on to do much so £300k looks steep. And if the £220k bid for Backspin was genuine, then they must be made to keep him. Ditto for Galant Nuit. But you'd never know if those unsold bids are real bids or not.
For the future, I think the store sales will still be challenging. There is still a disconnect in prices. As Grey says, if you can buy a winner for £100k, why would you buy two unraced for £50k a piece? I think the store sales will be weak again this year. No point to point trainers buying so the lower tier will be dead again and the middle tier may be propped up by the likes of Kiely etc buying horses now they have cash in the bank.
What surprises me is that very few of Kielys go on to do much so £300k looks steep. And if the £220k bid for Backspin was genuine, then they must be made to keep him. Ditto for Galant Nuit. But you'd never know if those unsold bids are real bids or not.
For the future, I think the store sales will still be challenging. There is still a disconnect in prices. As Grey says, if you can buy a winner for £100k, why would you buy two unraced for £50k a piece? I think the store sales will be weak again this year. No point to point trainers buying so the lower tier will be dead again and the middle tier may be propped up by the likes of Kiely etc buying horses now they have cash in the bank.
Shadow Leader
At the Start
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2003
- Messages
- 9,884
Krizon, Krizon, Krizon......
Don't worry, I canna' be arsed to get into it today....!!
Mind you I will say that sending a horse point to pointing is, in my view, a better education than sending them novice hurdling at least. Bumpers are also a valuable part of the education of young backward horses.
Don't worry, I canna' be arsed to get into it today....!!
Mind you I will say that sending a horse point to pointing is, in my view, a better education than sending them novice hurdling at least. Bumpers are also a valuable part of the education of young backward horses.