Cantoris, read what i said will you. He did NOT try. It's quite simple. You can try and make it as abstract as you like but you are either defending the indefensible, or looking for an argument. It says everything about racing in Ireland he is allowed to race before mid December.
Downroyal Saturday
- Thread starter granger
- Start date
Grasshopper
Senior Jockey
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2006
- Messages
- 16,050
Re Sizing Europe, the best you could say about the run is that it was - once again - inconclusive, in terms of him getting 3m. A more measured interpretation, however, surely points to the horse being a patent non-stayer at the trip?
Those prepared to give him another chance, and who would back him at Kempton, are already talking in terms of a return on the place part only of an each-way bet, which begs the question; what's the point?
Do you really want to be playing to land a 4/1 shot, when he still has stamina to prove, and when a host of progressive young chasers with stamina guaranteed, stand in your way - let alone a classy champion?
Sizing Europe has demonstrated form at 2m which is out of the top drawer; over both hurdles and fences, and is arguably unlucky not to have been crowned a champion in both disciplines at the trip. The likelihood of him being albe to demonstrate equally good form at 3m is surely remote. The precentage of horses who have done this over the years, is tiny. Edredon Bleu is probably the best contemporary example, and even then, it was a relatively poor King George he won.
It's asking a great deal to expect Sizing Europe to buck the trend in the same way, and I'd be looking for a lot more than 4/1 to place.
Those prepared to give him another chance, and who would back him at Kempton, are already talking in terms of a return on the place part only of an each-way bet, which begs the question; what's the point?
Do you really want to be playing to land a 4/1 shot, when he still has stamina to prove, and when a host of progressive young chasers with stamina guaranteed, stand in your way - let alone a classy champion?
Sizing Europe has demonstrated form at 2m which is out of the top drawer; over both hurdles and fences, and is arguably unlucky not to have been crowned a champion in both disciplines at the trip. The likelihood of him being albe to demonstrate equally good form at 3m is surely remote. The precentage of horses who have done this over the years, is tiny. Edredon Bleu is probably the best contemporary example, and even then, it was a relatively poor King George he won.
It's asking a great deal to expect Sizing Europe to buck the trend in the same way, and I'd be looking for a lot more than 4/1 to place.
Last edited:
I'm sorry for seeking clarification that you're accusing a jockey of stopping a horse. It might not be me looking for an argument but I'm sure Mr Russell would be interested in your views and you can continue the discussion in court.
As for your last comment, its not worth commenting on.
You never answered my Harchi question. Was Carberry a non-trier too?
I would completely agree with that if the horse came back sound. But as it didn't, it's much harder to be that sure. If it picked up and won three lengths, would we be having the same discussion? Whose to say the horse wouldn't have if it wasnt clinically abnormal?
Listen - if you are going to post such drivel, then pass my post on, and let me know when the court case is. Failing that, fuck off.
That raises a whole heap of other questions as in did Russell know the horse was wrong, at what point and why did he verge on riding a finish on him if he did. 9 out of 10 the Jockies won't know till he pulls the horse up afterwards. Had the horse picked upand won by 3 lengths I'd say Russel gave him the opportunity to lose and he didn't take it.
Last edited:
Careful, the well connected Cantoris will be on to his mate Davey and you'll be in the dock next to me...
Delightful language
When you go on about telling 'Mr Russell' and court, you got what you deserved. Mr Russell? How sycophantic. Taking the topic down thst route has no place on a forum. So, again, either do what you were inferring, tell Mr Russell, or else bugger off.
Last edited:
I'm guessing but I presume the horse was a little distressed after the race rather than having a leg fall off. Your last line is probably spot on but you'd have moved onto the next race before putting it on here. My point is that it was poor ride and if the horse was 100% after, you could have considered a suspension or what not, but there is a mitigating factor, which the foul mouthed one can't have. C'est la vie.
There is no excuse for your foul mouth. None.
And maybe you should do something you suggested to me, and read my post. Did I say anything about telling Mr Russell? As for taking the forum down, please refrain then from making accusations that a horse was stopped if you do not have clear evidence of the fact. It is very unbecoming.
Last edited:
You threatened to tell Mr Russell and said this would end up in court. Again, please do so, Or else please bugger off.
Where did I say that? What I said was "It might not be me looking for an argument but I'm sure Mr Russell would be interested in your views and you can continue the discussion in court."
You know, he could be a member here?? It could be another member that shows him?? Or you could say it to him yourself?? But maybe you didn't think about that. 40 day ban.
Last edited:
On The Bridle
At the Start
Hamm you do realise if you keep this up you will end up owning 10% of a "really nice bumper horse with plenty of scope"! Cantoris's marketing ploys know no bounds!!:lol:
granger
Senior Jockey
Good write up Grassy
The one niggle I have of SE not staying 3m is him doing 3m on Good ground rather than a bog whereby his key strength (his jumping) is reduced greatly
Bar Long Run, all the other chief market participants have a lot to prove also is it not fair to say?
MM for one is a horse that I cannot figure out. On better ground, SE's jumping will come more to the fore and and given the fact that today resembled a bog, was it wise to try and set all on a possible non stayer?
Hamm - You are talking out of your ass.
He asked the horse for an effort after the last, he found sweet FA. Bridle horse. Today's ride was very different to say the ride The Real Article got earlier in the year.
Also Russel's ride on Quito shows this new BHA rule is bananas and the powers that be are far far too up their own backside to change it. Such a shame, such a farce.
He asked the horse for an effort after the last, he found sweet FA. Bridle horse. Today's ride was very different to say the ride The Real Article got earlier in the year.
Also Russel's ride on Quito shows this new BHA rule is bananas and the powers that be are far far too up their own backside to change it. Such a shame, such a farce.
S
SlimChance
Guest
I'm going to defend Hamm here. Firstly myself and On The Bridle have clearly indicated earlier on the thread that Mark Walsh stopped a horse today. Also on a thread about Punchestown last week I suggested that Giggenstown have no problem running horses with other days in mind i.e stopping them. So unless my posts come under the sane rigour as Hamm, he is being unfairly singled out on the forum.
EC1
On a break
Its not that long ago that Hamm was threatening me with court after he accused me of accusing him
..of being racist..which i didn't do by the way..thats not my point here though
so..its not first time court has been used as a threat against a member
its said in heat of moment i'm sure..ffs let the matter drop..its a forum..we get heated sometimes
if court is being threatened every 5 minutes no fooker will say owt in a bit
..of being racist..which i didn't do by the way..thats not my point here thoughso..its not first time court has been used as a threat against a member
its said in heat of moment i'm sure..ffs let the matter drop..its a forum..we get heated sometimes
if court is being threatened every 5 minutes no fooker will say owt in a bit
Last edited:
Tout Seul
Senior Jockey
- Joined
- May 2, 2003
- Messages
- 2,628
As members of a public forum we all have a duty to be careful with our language. I'm not referring to abusive language, which is simply unnecessary, but to statements that could lead to legal proceedings. Poorly judged postings could land the poster and/or those that administer the forum with considerable costs.
It doesn't take much intellect to construct a post that conveys the message you want to get across but that also contains sufficient caveats or simply 'wriggle room'.
Of course it can be extremely frustrating when one sees something that on the face of it might seem to be cheating but, unless one can categorically prove it, it is necesssary to be careful when posting!
It doesn't take much intellect to construct a post that conveys the message you want to get across but that also contains sufficient caveats or simply 'wriggle room'.
Of course it can be extremely frustrating when one sees something that on the face of it might seem to be cheating but, unless one can categorically prove it, it is necesssary to be careful when posting!
EC1
On a break
on reading the forum week in week out i think that the suggestion that jockey x didn't try to hard comes up quite a lot
i tend to ignore most of these sorts of things as i just don't bother with that side of it..many punters are very focussed on the jockey..wrongly imo.
is it really the jockey?...who actually gives the orders to a jockey?
i tend to ignore most of these sorts of things as i just don't bother with that side of it..many punters are very focussed on the jockey..wrongly imo.
is it really the jockey?...who actually gives the orders to a jockey?
I know cantoris didn't read my posts properly but am sure you can - i said he didn't try, and should het a 40 day ban; the only person to use the word stopping was Cantoris.